Player Features and Ideas Discussion

Actually I do believe that most players would move to the largest current trade centre. Capsuleers are intrinsically lazy and will simply run missions etc wherever is the easiest to refit and rearm. This means that the trade in ships and weapons will also be concentrated here. The only trade crossing the losec regions between the hisec islands (that's exactly what they would be) would be in BR's taking the more unique racial gear across that region. Even then it would probably be a few runs across the 3-4 systems of losec to drop the goods off at the nearest hisec area in a freighter for the last bit. Would I risk a freighter bringing lots of stuff through losec in one go? Hell no, I'd make a few quick runs with a BR instead and the gatecamps would likely never even see me

If this was a good idea CCP would have made this change a looong time ago I think. That they haven't says it all. They seem to be taking the approach of introducing more content to losec to draw both people from hisec and null into the region (worked for me as I no run combat anoms in losec where I didn't before). I entirely agree with this approach as it appeals to the % of players in hisec who are *willing* to go through losec. Those who are not simply will not in any circumstance.

You're not even responding to what I said. I have no idea how you got ganking and lowsec together as there is no such thing as a gank in lowsec...

Yeah I believe they will be forced to move as the smaller markets shrivel up due to the majority of the players being located in the jita/amarr areas. People are inherently lazy and they will move to the cheapest market area. The lack of SOE mission areas and Jita being the main trade hub will assure that the serious mission runners are located in Caldari space. Amarr space will probably be fine as it's a primary target of incursions.

There are also SOE agents in Minmatar and Amarr space. Mission runners would continue to run missions for whoever they currently are, they wouldn't change simply because they need a cloaky hauler to sell their low volume goods at whichever market they would get the highest price at.

Additionally there are trade hubs in each of the 4 empires, they would grow, not shrink, if the empires were separated, as they would be more valuable as an easy place to get commonplace modules (T2s/Meta 4s).
Faction/deadspace mods would likely still center around Jita, but for a small market this is inevitable, and that's how it is now.

I guess you don't really understand how markets work. First of all, the value of something is only as great as what people are willing to spend on it. If you have a market full of extra expensive minerals and nobody buys them, then either you drop the price or you hang on to them for no profit. Second, if a place exists where the price of an item, such as minerals, does have a higher selling point, then isn't that going to attract more miners to be able to make a higher premium on their work? And by that eventually saturating and lowering the price point on the market.

And about your claim that caldari space is more populated with miners.... You do realize that the rats in caldari space use ECM and is thus the worst place to mine (if you spend any time afk or browsing while you mine). I do know that plenty of Gallente space is very saturated. Believe it or not, miner saturation is not a good thing for miners. If i knew that another area had less saturation and a working market, i'd be there in a heart beat.

The nestor is your example? Do nestors move in jita or amarr at all anyways? I don't think there's going to be many people who are put out by not having a nestor available at a nearby trade hub.

This change will have lots of positive impacts. First, destabilizing the markets is the first and most important effect.

With that hauling will be given some life. Currently all hauling is, is saving up for a freighter and then moving larges volumes of things from one trade hub to another for small profits. Which of course is super boring causing a lot of people to just auto pilot it resulting in the climate of freighter ganking we have now. With the destabilized markets, there should be plenty of opportunity to find common things in one market that are at a premium in another thus giving a higher profit ceiling to the profession.

Then, with the increased traffic, low sec would be given some life. Currently low sec is just an out of the way place with very little to do, and the mechanics are not very good there either (they need a revamp for sure). With a low sec barrier between each empire there will not be a reason for people to go into low sec. Currently it's basically just to see what's there or move a cyno alt.

Another thing, because of the livened up low sec, of course there will be increased piracy. Hopefully there would be a shift of high sec gankers, wardeccers, etc moving into low sec. But also if there is a climate of increased pirate density there'd also be a climate of increased pirate hunter density, or just people looking for good fights.

And then, lastly, if there does end up being that climate of increased pvp in low sec, newer players and corps will now have a place near by to find and try out pvp. I'm really not sure how new players are supposed to get into it currently. Maybe just by luck? Maybe that's why only 10% of players (that begin subscription) stick around. Maybe it's just by luck that they find a good pvp experience. Good pvp experiences can show what EvE is all about, AND most importantly they can show people the importance of group play which in a lot of cases means getting involved with the people/person they just lost their ship to.

I think these are all positive results, don't you?

This is my basic problem with this idea, the assumption that becase you split the empires the haukers will suddenly think 'Oh well that's that, I'd better fly my multi-billion ship and cargo through losec now. It will never happen...the smaller hubs will become marginalized and wither.

Is there actually any time in history where separating markets with hostile armed forces has improved trade? I can't think of any and since we are simulating a market here why should we believe this would work differently in Eve?

Don't get me wrong, I would actually profit from this change but I don't agree with ideas simply because they would benefit me. I can only see bad things from a change like this. Much better to increase the content in losec and encourage players to go there of their own volition.

Choice is the key to Eve, if we start removing choices we stifle the game.

And how do you get the stuff there? Items and ships don't move themselves.

And how do you get the materials to your manu stations outside major hubs (Idc about Forge when it comes to manufacturing stations)?

Strikes me as odd that the PvP centric folks simply ignore any of the replies from the S&I folks here (who are notorious for not nothering with forums) who say they absolutely will not travel losec if such a change were made.

This would stagnate those areas outside Jita and possibly Amarr as people who run missions don't care where so they would go for the easiest place/biggest hub. That in turn means that all goods would be delivered there for those pilots to buy. The only ships flying through losec would be BR's etc so no more targets there. Any freighters that do run through would be from big corps who will support them, so nope no chance there either for more targets.

If this were a good idea it would have been done long ago. It clearly isn't as it's been kicking around for ages and never gained any traction with the devs.

You do realize that everything is not just automatically seeded in Jita right? A trade hub only exists because it's convenient to trade there either by location or market size. If the location becomes inconvenient don't worry, the market sizes of the current trade hubs will still perpetuate themselves and they'll continue to be the major trade hubs. But it's pretty silly to believe that materials won't move freely through hostile territory. It already happens now, and in great volumes.


When you say S&I folks, you mean High sec only S&I folks right? Well the beauty about this is, if they don't move through low sec, they'll come to a point where they'll be saturating Jita with their goods. And when that happens they'll be making less profits. And this will open up opportunity for new S&I people in other locations to make a good living.

One of the most basic principles of business is, you have to be able to adapt to change. Here's a great article about that
http://www.businessinsider.com/overcome-by-change-the-failure-of-two-companies-to-seize-the-initiative-and-master-oncoming-change-2011-11

And the funny thing about this idea, it's older than you think. In fact EvE was like this in the beginning. But unfortunately the player base wasn't large enough to support 4 healthy economies at that time. However, things are different now. There are more than enough people to support each empire. Now is the right time to bring this back.

I support this idea.

Eventhough I like the current state of the game, which allows pirate players to blap unsuspecting space piñatas in highsec.
I think this would be an interesting change for both pirates, anti-pirates, Factional Warfare Players and Traders as a whole.


While we're at it:
I'd also like for CCP to look into the suggestion to sew genitals onto my face at the character creation screen.
I think that would pave way for greater immersion.

All these implementations of mouseover tooltips pretty much resemble having a giant weener hanging in my eyes anyways.

Yes I'm looking at you CCP Rise, and yes, I'm mad bro.