These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

Player Features and Ideas Discussion

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

Separate the four empires with low security space.

First post
Author
Commander Ted
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#541 - 2013-05-29 19:11:55 UTC  |  Edited by: Commander Ted
Douglas Whyte wrote:
There other event's that happen in low/null that allow a player to make more isk.

The problem is you need friends, there are some things you can do alone, however if you go into null/low with the mentality to do all the things you do in hi-sec, then you're not going to make much more.

Not to mention... MINING IS A JOKE. Really I don't understand why ANYONE does it besides bots. There's just no isk there. You make what 10m an hour? maybe 20m in null? I can make more running lvl 3's. Granted... risk vs reward.... but when I can run lvl 4's and come out with more mineral's per hour then a hi-sec miner.... it just makes no sense of why do it.

Not true, the only difference is you can't do it afk (which is often times untrue in null sec),
You don't need friends, in fact just yesterday I saw 2 mackinaws and a dominix mining in a dead end low sec system, I warped in on them to see about some cheap kills and they all had warp core stabs and starting warping away all at the exact same time.
Guy is still there mining, he doesn't have a scout alt or anything, he just mines.

I made more isk doing exploration in low sec than in hisec.

I know people in FW who do level 4 missions constantly in low sec without any trouble.

Hell people even do level 5's without that much of a problem.

So obviously isk/hr isn't the issue here.

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=174097 Separate all 4 empires in eve with lowsec.

Omnathious Deninard
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#542 - 2013-05-29 19:23:44 UTC
I was thinking about a way they could implement this without a total **** storm brewing.
It would have to come over several patches over a long period of time, but systems that would be the "Neutral Zone" between empires would slowly have there security status lowered till they hit there desired status. Any systems that might go from low to high would be done in the opposite fashion.

If you don't follow the rules, neither will I.

Commander Ted
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#543 - 2013-05-29 19:48:27 UTC
Omnathious Deninard wrote:
I was thinking about a way they could implement this without a total **** storm brewing.
It would have to come over several patches over a long period of time, but systems that would be the "Neutral Zone" between empires would slowly have there security status lowered till they hit there desired status. Any systems that might go from low to high would be done in the opposite fashion.

I don't think it matters if you do it all at once or not, announce it at the start of when the devs start announcing features and promise that no systems will have their sec status changed, only new ones will be added.

Also that doesn't make any sense, why would a system that was secure, now not be secure?
If it were new territory that would make sense, the new regions should be added first, and the stargates crossing those regions to be separated would see a slow destabilization, something the players can watch, like a wormhole effect inside the stargate.

So players are aware time is running out and can get a feel for and understand the new zones.

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=174097 Separate all 4 empires in eve with lowsec.

Omnathious Deninard
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#544 - 2013-05-29 20:43:36 UTC
ShahFluffers wrote:
Commander Ted...

I took the liberty of bringing this subject up at the low-sec round table the other day at Fanfest (because i very much enjoy the concept for largely the same reasons you do).
Some of the DEVs adored the idea and expressed that they had toyed with it as a concept. Other DEVs were more lukewarm. The general sentiment among them though was that such a change now would be "too much of a shock to the system" and that they probably won't do it unless they hypothetically make a new game.

HOWEVER... the DEVs did express a desire to make low-sec both desirable for those who wish a more... unsavory... lifestyle without making it too attractive to null-seccers. They basically "want low-sec to be like the ghetto of a city... lots of alleyways, corners, and blind spots that the locals will know and use against massive groups that are used to using main battle tanks on open battlefields" (these are more or less their exact words, not mine). Unfortunately no solid ideas were expressed about HOW they would achieve this... but this is what they WANT to do.

If you don't follow the rules, neither will I.

Commander Ted
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#545 - 2013-05-29 21:31:12 UTC
The shock to the system thing confuses me.

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=174097 Separate all 4 empires in eve with lowsec.

Romvex
TURN LEFT
#546 - 2013-06-09 20:41:20 UTC
signed
ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors
#547 - 2013-06-09 21:06:40 UTC
Commander Ted wrote:
The shock to the system thing confuses me.

My take on it is that they don't want all but one or two high-sec islands to end up like Solitude region. The sad fact is, most people will congregate where the most people and business is done just because it's easier.

Again... I like the idea. However, given the reservations presented by the DEVs I can see that many of them see such a change as unnecessarily painful and/or bad for overall, long term, in-game market stability.
Commander Ted
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#548 - 2013-06-10 03:09:19 UTC
ShahFluffers wrote:

My take on it is that they don't want all but one or two high-sec islands to end up like Solitude region. The sad fact is, most people will congregate where the most people and business is done just because it's easier.

Again... I like the idea. However, given the reservations presented by the DEVs I can see that many of them see such a change as unnecessarily painful and/or bad for overall, long term, in-game market stability.

People do congregate in one spot but that is only possible for a number of reasons
CCP's economist said himself that the empires were starting homgenize in population due to lack of space but Jita was still the center of everything, and what happened to Solitude couldn't happen to the empires because the empires actually have reasons that make them worth going to over the others.

I would say the problems with this idea are mostly short term adaptation and in the long term people will find that it is better.

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=174097 Separate all 4 empires in eve with lowsec.

ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors
#549 - 2013-06-10 04:10:43 UTC  |  Edited by: ShahFluffers
Commander Ted wrote:
I would say the problems with this idea are mostly short term adaptation and in the long term people will find that it is better.

Oh... I agree completely. But how painful that adaptation and for how long it would last is something to be a little concerned about.
Commander Ted
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#550 - 2013-06-10 04:46:32 UTC  |  Edited by: Commander Ted
ShahFluffers wrote:
Commander Ted wrote:
I would say the problems with this idea are mostly short term adaptation and in the long term people will find that it is better.

Oh... I agree completely. But how painful that adaptation and for how long it would last is something to be a little concerned about.


Well I am sure there could be a way to make this less painful, like a few free interbus shipments maybe?
Everyone in new eden will get 3 vouchers to move say, 900km3 of materials from any high security space system to another hi-sec that last one month. Also they could get 5 vouchers to move any completely assembled/fitted ship regardless of cargo.

Also the number of Hisec-hisec wormhole connections could be increased by maybe 300% and slowly ratcheted down as time went on to help easy people into the transition.

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=174097 Separate all 4 empires in eve with lowsec.

Reaver Glitterstim
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#551 - 2013-06-10 05:17:55 UTC
Commander Ted wrote:
Reaver Glitterstim wrote:
Commander Ted wrote:
The dangers will be just as great
Not if more Navy spawns for every illegal attacker. I didn't give details on my middle-sec idea, and you just assumed it wouldn't work.


They already do with my faction warfare case, even then it was one dude camping an entire station. The answer is bring more logi still and you can tank them. If every logi has stuff shooting them the logi will be repped by the other logi. Not to mention you can pop faction ships like their nothing. Nothing you can do to make the faction navy effective security short of making them only slightly weaker than concord.

So in effect the noobs will still get popped when they jump in, anyone who runs missions and thinks their safe can still get ganked by tier 3's or a couple of bombers, and its really just neutered low sec pvp. No pirates would be ever willing to fight back against a real fleet because as the aggressors they have a crazy disadvantage, so the pirates with their logistics will see the fleet ahead of time and just dock up creating blue balls for all.
I never said anything about the HP of the faction ships. I'm not suggesting that the standard factions spawns are what you get, I'm suggesting that what you get would be balanced for middle-sec and classified as faction spawns.

My current idea is to have every attacker cause three navy ships to spawn (similar to CONCORD): a tackle frigate, an EWAR cruiser, and a high-DPS battleship. Their power and toughness would scale with sec status, being nearly impossible to beat solo in 0.6. This would prevent people from using the "bring more ships" strategy, especially if all of the NPCs who spawn could focus-fire on one of the attackers at a time.

To prevent lag, larger groups of attackers could have a scaled NPC response, with the same net power and toughness but with fewer total ships.

This idea would give a solo player room to defend themself--even if the ganker could beat the NPCs OR the solo player, it wouold be more difficult to beat both at the same time. Anyone who goes out in a reasonably combat-fit ship should be pretty much completely safe in 0.6, and fairly safe even in 0.5. Some highly skilled players could even roam around 0.4 alone and defend themselves.

FT Diomedes: "Reaver, sometimes I wonder what you are thinking when you sit down to post."

Frostys Virpio: "We have to give it to him that he does put more effort than the vast majority in his idea but damn does it sometime come out of nowhere."

Omnathious Deninard
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#552 - 2013-06-10 06:10:28 UTC
Commander Ted wrote:
ShahFluffers wrote:
Commander Ted wrote:
I would say the problems with this idea are mostly short term adaptation and in the long term people will find that it is better.

Oh... I agree completely. But how painful that adaptation and for how long it would last is something to be a little concerned about.


Well I am sure there could be a way to make this less painful.

That's why I said slowly change the sec status of the effected systems over the course of several patches.

If you don't follow the rules, neither will I.

Commander Ted
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#553 - 2013-06-10 07:03:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Commander Ted
Omnathious Deninard wrote:

That's why I said slowly change the sec status of the effected systems over the course of several patches.

Which would be useless, especially considering that only new systems would be added and none would be changed.

As long as there is one single link between the empires that is safe nothing would change. Only when the final link is cut then all hell breaks loose.

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=174097 Separate all 4 empires in eve with lowsec.

Omnathious Deninard
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#554 - 2013-06-10 07:13:59 UTC
Commander Ted wrote:
Omnathious Deninard wrote:

That's why I said slowly change the sec status of the effected systems over the course of several patches.

Which would be useless, especially considering that only new systems would be added and none would be changed.

As long as there is one single link between the empires that is safe nothing would change. Only when the final link is cut then all hell breaks loose.

You want to add more systems?
I was looking at this from the point of changing existing systems. If the system connects 2 (or more) empires it (and probaly a few surrounding systems) is low sec.

If you don't follow the rules, neither will I.

Commander Ted
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#555 - 2013-06-10 07:16:48 UTC
Omnathious Deninard wrote:

You want to add more systems?
I was looking at this from the point of changing existing systems. If the system connects 2 (or more) empires it (and probaly a few surrounding systems) is low sec.

The current map is inadequate, to many choke points. Whole new regions are needed.
Not to mention changing sec status is a TERRIBLE idea. It would screw over lots of people. How would you feel if your orca/mining fleet is suddenly 3 jumps into low sec after taking a month off?

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=174097 Separate all 4 empires in eve with lowsec.

Omnathious Deninard
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#556 - 2013-06-10 07:19:23 UTC
Commander Ted wrote:
Omnathious Deninard wrote:

You want to add more systems?
I was looking at this from the point of changing existing systems. If the system connects 2 (or more) empires it (and probaly a few surrounding systems) is low sec.

The current map is inadequate, to many choke points. Whole new regions are needed.
Not to mention changing sec status is a TERRIBLE idea. It would screw over lots of people. How would you feel if your orca/mining fleet is suddenly 3 jumps into low sec after taking a month off?

Ok now we are on the same page on things, I thought you wanted to use the existing map.
It would suck, but like all things I would get over it.

If you don't follow the rules, neither will I.

Commander Ted
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#557 - 2013-06-10 07:22:46 UTC
Omnathious Deninard wrote:

Ok now we are on the same page on things, I thought you wanted to use the existing map.
It would suck, but like all things I would get over it.

It would cause more harm than good and solve nothing.

Also in the main post I actually proposed lore explanations and an idea of how they could do the new regions.

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=174097 Separate all 4 empires in eve with lowsec.

Omnathious Deninard
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#558 - 2013-06-10 07:26:16 UTC
Commander Ted wrote:
Omnathious Deninard wrote:

Ok now we are on the same page on things, I thought you wanted to use the existing map.
It would suck, but like all things I would get over it.

It would cause more harm than good and solve nothing.

Also in the main post I actually proposed lore explanations and an idea of how they could do the new regions.

I have not read the OP since you started this thread. Time to go back and re-read it.

If you don't follow the rules, neither will I.

Commander Ted
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#559 - 2013-06-11 19:05:26 UTC
Stickies are gone! Ill just bump this here.

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=174097 Separate all 4 empires in eve with lowsec.

Ordellus
Doomheim
#560 - 2013-06-12 01:42:59 UTC
Commander Ted wrote:
Sounds like extremely boring emergent gameplay.


Actually LOL'd there. By "emergent gameplay" do you mean a bunch of prepared war vessels trapping and killing a respectively helpless ship?

I'd rather keep the high sec where it is.