Jita Park Speakers Corner

It has when tech is at stake. That's unfortunately one of the problems, outside of tech there's not much worth fighting for. Of course, the only-one-timer-matters nature of sov war and the general **** state of sov 0.0 in general means those battles never stay massive for long, either, but that's a whole other issue (and one far larger and more important than moon goo, as far as sov 0.0 goes anyway).

Your problem is that you didn't stop as soon as "I don't know much about nullsec" came into your mind. You don't, and your ideas reek of it.

If you want more conflict, you need to make sov MORE valuable, not less valuable. Right now, it's teetering on the brink of "who cares?", especially in regions that don't have tech (i.e. everything not in the North). Plenty of alliances keep it as a matter of principle, but when the chips go down and it's being invaded, that's when the real question of "is this worth trying to save?" comes up, and unfortunately, way more often than not the answer is "no". The worse sov space is to live in (and depleting resources makes this objectively worse), the sooner that "no" comes, eventually ending with the "no" being the answer to "should we even bother trying for sov?".

You want battles with high stakes? Make null not suck. That's why region invasions end up resolved quickly, they're unfun and they're in defense of something that isn't really benefiting you at the end of the day. If regions had value all within at least ballpark ranges of each other, things become a lot more interesting - there's actual incentive to invade and take a region, and actual incentive to defend it. Right now, you have to hope that an enemy wants to keep their region on principle, and that's just not reliable enough.

How do you make sov not suck? There's two parts to that:

First, make the space worth living in. Farms & Fields is probably the best principle to go on here - make an alliance's livelihood come from its members. The extra nice part about this is that the principle can be applied evenly to all the regions in the game, meaning everyone can have value rather than just those fortunate enough to have won the moon mineral lottery.

Second, make the sov system not be the complete and utter **** pile it is now. I mentioned the one timer before - that's probably the biggest problem. It's timers that are sequential, and the times of them are fixed (with a few hours random variation), which means there's little to no chance of error. Even the old POS system at least had the possibility of someone ******* up a stront timer or two (especially if they had a bunch to do, stress etc), so there was some element of randomness or chance or what have you. With this system, there's no variance - you time it for when you can defend it best, and hope when the last timer comes your blob is bigger than their blob. That's not fun at all.

Neither of these are easy changes to make, but they'll actually have positive effects, unlike whatever kind of half-baked stupid "JUST FIX MOON GOO DEPLETE RESOURCES REMOVE LOCAL DERRRRRP" nonsense is being spewed on the forums this week.

What I'm telling you is that a fluctuation will make it worth less on the whole. Simple as.




If sov null isn't your game, maybe you should leave the finer points to those of us who count sov null as our "game"? Just a thought!

Sigh. I know what a fluctuation is. What I'm saying is the very existance of fluctuations will make nullsec a less desirable place to be. Given it's not exactly a great place to live as it is, that's a Bad Thing.



Your ideas are objectively terrible and it's because, as you said, you don't know much about nullsec. That's a pretty good reason to stop throwing your bad ideas out there. Again, just a thought!

Here is another thought.

When normal people really are more knowledgable about a subject they tend to just briefly explain the problems with a novice's idea.

But when people are insecure in their knowledge and can't do that, they tend to lash out and just say things like "thats a terrible idea" and use fallacies like arguing against an idea because of where it comes from, instead of addressing it's merits.

It could be worse CCP could listen to the CSM


So remove any need of Null for the industry of Hi-sec, thereby collapsing all the hi-sec markets in one foul swoop.

You think Null is dead now, this will at least make Hi-sec on par I suppose, they will both be deserted.

The amount of mining currently in Null is so massive that it has collapsed the market for those minerals to the point where Hi-sec minerals are worth more.

Without the buying power of Null on Hi-sec minerals the markets in Hi-sec will be shadows of there former selves. Yes you will still need some salvage and some moon minerals and T3 and officer mods but the huge market is now and has always been the mineral market, while Hi-sec and low do produce and use these they do not produce nearly enough to support it even close to what it is now if Null mined and produced its own.

Yes Hi-sec will survive but mining would be pointless, the bottom would fall out of the markets and we would be better of making bots legal for the isk/hr it would generate.

Yes some alliances with full supercap programs will need to import or buy of neighbors or pets. We have already seen how willing Null is to form conglomerates to further its aims.

To believe other wise is short sighted. Yes Null needs better industry, mostly in the form of POS and outpost refining capabilities and outpost production capabilities, not more bounties and more minerals.

Null needs the ability to produce lower scale unique ships like a T3 frigate with gas and parts specific to Sov Null.

Oh and it would not make Null deserted, Null is now, it is high sec that will have no one left.

Well you believe it will be fine, I think it would cause a complete crash of Hi-sec markets

I have doomsayered enough on that. If that gets past the economist on CCP staff, I suppose we might get to see who is right, I really hope it is you.

Read the CSM minutes


Eve markets run on supply and demand so if you reduce the market in Hi-sec by giving another source in Null the market will fall, the larger the supply the bigger the crash and as Null is a place full of PVP and ship deaths it is a major customer of Hi-sec.

Hi-sec will look like Detroit after the Asian car companies entered the market.

Actually just that and the fact that yes the amount of minerals currently mined in Null is small compared to hi, we are at a level that has caused the market to be saturated to the point that Hi-sec minerals are worth more per/hr to mine and that is including shipping them to hi-sec.

Yes Hi sec mines more than null but with a population 3 times the size I would hope so.

Oh and as to "Again, this is all dependent on CCP being able to balance things correctly." I didn't know whether to laugh or cry, I cannot think of anything they have ever released that did not need re-balancing or changing later.

As to enough minerals, how much is enough 1 BS worth per person in Null per day, week , month?

With just 10000 people to build a battleship a week that is a lot of minerals not being bought from Hi-sec
Take a simple BS like an apoc that is
102,298,090,000 units of trit a week without counting all the other high sec minerals.