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new industrialist struggling to play game during war decs, advice?
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Cadiz Aragon
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#1 - 2012-11-15 16:53:03 UTC
I'm very new to this game and I'm keen to become an industrialist and I've trained all the basic "before you make anything" industry skills, can fly LvL2 security missions to work on standings, have a retriever for some mining here and there and have a fist full of BPOs for starting my manufacturing career. My problem that I'm having is that when we're war dec-ed (which seems to be full time now) I have no idea what I can do to play this game.

I know all the keep eyes on local, stay aligned, put enemies on contact list, etc. stuff, and I actually feel quite safe when working in a system, the problem is gate camps are just completely paralyzing me so I can't move my minerals for manufacturing and I can hardly run security mission (to work on standing) because half the missions require you to jump to another system. My corp doesn't have a PvP arm or anything and even the alliance we were in that did just pretty much stayed in null sec, no one's out taking the fight to the gankers in high sec so you're pretty much left on your own to just deal with the war dec.

I know war deccing is part of life in this game, and I don't mind losing ships, its just that I feel completely helpless and unable to play the game because I can't do my industrial work (I'm in a low pop area that I have to move minerals myself) and I have no idea how to make money during a war dec and these random kills at gate camps are just slowly but surely draining my bank account to nothing.

I'm pretty sure I can get through the gate camps in a frig, but what can I do in a frig? LvL 1 missions are like pissing in the wind, no money, no standings, and hauling in a frig seems like it would take forever. I don't mind PvP, but I'm not sure what I can do by myself against gangs of tech 2 PvPers.

Anyone have advice for what my options are in this situation?

-Budding industrialist trying to figure out how to play this game
Kameri Velith
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#2 - 2012-11-15 17:09:40 UTC
Missions often simply need to be put on hold during wardecs.

Look into using courier contracts to move your minerals around instead of doing it yourself.
If you can't afford that, use an open toon slot to create a hauler toon in a noob corp.

If you are the defender in the war, talk to your CEO about bringing in mercs to take the fight to your enemies.
Emma Royd
Maddled Gommerils
#3 - 2012-11-15 17:10:09 UTC
Most industry players would have out of corp haulers which can move stuff around while being in a rookie corp so no wardecs.

As you say, war decs are a fact of life in eve, and frustrating if they're on-going with no end in sight. And the only real way of avoiding them is rookie corps, or even a change of corp and hope the new corp doesn't get one. Apart from that, there's not much I can suggest, if you've only got 1 account, then you can't scout yourself, and rely on corpmates to scout, and if the system is regularly camped then you're boned until the wardec is over, unless you can amass some PvP'ers and fight your way out Pirate
Zifrian
The Frog Pond
Ribbit.
#4 - 2012-11-15 17:31:23 UTC
Yeah, use out of corp toons to move stuff. Just train up one of your other two toons to fly industrial ships, etc. Either that or leave corp. It's one reason a lot of Indys do things solo. Much easier to move things and play the game how you want.

Maximze your Industry Potential! - Download EVE Isk per Hour!

Import CCP's SDE - EVE SDE Database Builder
Spectre Wraith
Darwin Inc.
#5 - 2012-11-15 18:13:47 UTC
Always have some simple, out of corp alts that can handle very basic things that would otherwise put you in danger. it takes almost no time at all to train for a T1 indy and T2 hull upgrades. Other then that, a convenient skill to have at 2-3 is contracting, so you can do multiple private contracts between yourself and the alt. If you can't waste the 1day of training for a simple hauler alt, courier contracts are a no brainer.

Another important piece of advice, is to always have multiple bookmarks within your 'home' system. Your home system should always be your safe haven. If you use a particular station, you better have an instant undock for it, if you get a mission that is in a very far off location within the system, bookmark+save it for later use as a good safe spot.

Always prepare for the worst.

Dear lord, please help me deal with the insufferable....
Denal Umbra
Coffee Hub
#6 - 2012-11-15 18:31:50 UTC
Look into contracting the minerals / products via public contracts. Avoid the big names like red frog and the like since they charge a ton and take forever to complete. A public contract with less than 500m collateral clears in less than a day for just 1m reward. Even freighter sized loads as long as it's not too far away from civilization.

A second good solution, as has been stated... is to have an out of corp hauler. A bestower + rigs/cargo expander alt takes less than a day to train up.
Cadiz Aragon
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#7 - 2012-11-15 18:32:17 UTC
Yeah, looks like a simple hauling alt would be a good thing to get going so I can keep my manufacturing engines running.
Lolar55
Banana Toaster
#8 - 2012-11-15 19:29:25 UTC
you can always use red frog freighter service they are cheap and do the job quick.
Arcosian
Arcosian Heavy Industries Corp Holding
#9 - 2012-11-16 05:56:37 UTC
Or you could join a real indy corp...like mine :)
Elena Thiesant
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#10 - 2012-11-16 09:49:13 UTC
Ask your corpmates if any of them have an out-of-corp hauling alt (likely some will) and if they will haul for you.
Raziel Walker
NPC Tax Evasion Corp
#11 - 2012-11-16 13:45:29 UTC
Depends a bit on how loycal you are to your corp and wheter you like PVP
-Leave your current corp and move to an NPC corp where they can't wardec you.
-Join a (pvp) corp that can defend itself, is big enough that is doesn't get wardecced, or based in low/null where high sec wars are less relevant.
-Play a different character or use alts.
Aziesta
Binal Extensions
Xagenic Freymvork
#12 - 2012-11-16 13:50:04 UTC
Since no one has brought up blockade runners, I'll mention that possibility. Around 10k m3 cargohold, and nearly impossible to catch, especially in highsec.
Bugsy VanHalen
Society of lost Souls
#13 - 2012-11-16 15:13:28 UTC
Cadiz Aragon wrote:
I'm very new to this game and I'm keen to become an industrialist and I've trained all the basic "before you make anything" industry skills, can fly LvL2 security missions to work on standings, have a retriever for some mining here and there and have a fist full of BPOs for starting my manufacturing career. My problem that I'm having is that when we're war dec-ed (which seems to be full time now) I have no idea what I can do to play this game.

I know all the keep eyes on local, stay aligned, put enemies on contact list, etc. stuff, and I actually feel quite safe when working in a system, the problem is gate camps are just completely paralyzing me so I can't move my minerals for manufacturing and I can hardly run security mission (to work on standing) because half the missions require you to jump to another system. My corp doesn't have a PvP arm or anything and even the alliance we were in that did just pretty much stayed in null sec, no one's out taking the fight to the gankers in high sec so you're pretty much left on your own to just deal with the war dec.

I know war deccing is part of life in this game, and I don't mind losing ships, its just that I feel completely helpless and unable to play the game because I can't do my industrial work (I'm in a low pop area that I have to move minerals myself) and I have no idea how to make money during a war dec and these random kills at gate camps are just slowly but surely draining my bank account to nothing.

I'm pretty sure I can get through the gate camps in a frig, but what can I do in a frig? LvL 1 missions are like pissing in the wind, no money, no standings, and hauling in a frig seems like it would take forever. I don't mind PvP, but I'm not sure what I can do by myself against gangs of tech 2 PvPers.

Anyone have advice for what my options are in this situation?

Budding industrialist trying to figure out how to play this game

Either you, your corp, or your alliance, has done something to **** them off for them to war dec you. No corp in game targets small time indy corps with war decs, if the war is against your alliance and not mutual it costs them at least 100 mil per week to keep it going.

If your corp/alliance has locked them into a mutual war then it makes sense that they would be ganking your high sec division to try to get the mutual war dec dropped. If the war is mutual they can not drop it. The mutual dec has to be dropped first.

If it is an alliance level war your corp can leave the alliance and the war will drop within 24 hours provided you do not declare it mutual. If they re declare on your corp after you leave it cost them another 50 mil per week.

If the war was declared by your alliance and they have made it mutual locking your alliance into a mutual war. You can try leaving the alliance but you will carry the war with you with you flagged as the aggressor. If they make the war mutual with your corp outside the alliance you will not only still be trapped in the war but will not be able to join another alliance until the war is over. In this case the only option is to disband your corp, wonderful new war mechanic isn't it?

If it is just a simple matter of your corp or alliance attracting a lot of wars then you are in the wrong corp or alliance to conduct high sec indy activities. Either leave the corp/alliance and find a new one, or move your indy activity to your alliances null sec area where you can be protected.

High sec indy corps just do not draw the attention you are describing, Unless a member of your corp has a lot of enemies that are willing to dec your entire alliance just to get at that one member. there is something you are not telling us.


Morikar
#14 - 2012-11-16 15:46:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Morikar
Bugsy VanHalen wrote:
Either you, your corp, or your alliance, has done something to **** them off for them to war dec you. No corp in game targets small time indy corps with war decs, if the war is against your alliance and not mutual it costs them at least 100 mil per week to keep it going.


Because you know, nobody in Eve wardecs just to be a **** Roll I mean it's not like you can make 100 million just from a few L4 missions or have a competent trader...oh wait you can.

To the OP, what's jumping out at me in your rant is you said your corp doesn't have a PvP group. Since they aren't even trying to defend themselves, the deccing corp is seeing you as easy pickings.

You need to reconsider which corp you are in. A lot of indy corps have PvP groups that will happily rise to the occasion during a wardec.

The alternative is to do one of the following:

a) learn to fly blockaide runners (i.e. I fly a Prorator, it's amazing)
b) leave the corp until the war is over and join back after (this is extremely common, most corps have no problem with you leaving during wartime)
c) ask your corp leaders to consider Dec Shield
d) get some balls and rally troops in your corp to fight off the ****ers.
Anslo
Scope Works
#15 - 2012-11-16 16:09:29 UTC
Dec Shield em and watch them squirm. Or use your isk to hire a good mercenary corp and hold the enemy corp ransom.

[center]-_For the Proveldtariat_/-[/center]
Cadiz Aragon
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#16 - 2012-11-16 19:05:33 UTC
Bugsy VanHalen wrote:

Either you, your corp, or your alliance, has done something to **** them off for them to war dec you. No corp in game targets small time indy corps with war decs, if the war is against your alliance and not mutual it costs them at least 100 mil per week to keep it going.


Well the war dec we've been having was from an alliance that just war decced pretty much every corp in our area on the same day, I think they're just looking for jollies and carebear tears, they spend all their time gate camping the major intersecting systems in our area. That dec drops today, we'll see if they renew it.

We did get another war dec recently but I've not heard of or researched this alliance yet, don't know that they're about. I'm mainly just looking for advice from experienced folk that have experience in this situation. I guess I could leave my corp, but one of the reasons my corp just left our alliance was to shed the war deccing they were getting (some of which was because some of their members were pissing people off). And leaving my corp is no guarantee that I won't see this war deccing lifestyle in my new corp, and I do like my current corp mates.

I really appreciate all the advice I'm hearing in this thread, thanks all.
Cadiz Aragon
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#17 - 2012-11-16 19:17:05 UTC
Morikar wrote:

c) ask your corp leaders to consider Dec Shield


I have read that this used to refer to mounting friendly war decs but also that the dec costs formula has changed recently. What does this refer to now?

I think the hauling alt will solve my manufacturing issue, although those blockade runners sound interesting. I still would like to build standing via missions, maybe the new war deccers won't be such gate campers.
Morikar
#18 - 2012-11-16 19:47:28 UTC
Cadiz Aragon wrote:
Morikar wrote:

c) ask your corp leaders to consider Dec Shield


I have read that this used to refer to mounting friendly war decs but also that the dec costs formula has changed recently. What does this refer to now?


Read the details here: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=156437

Basically you get your corp to apply to join the Dec Shield alliance. Once accepted you get kicked out right away, but Dec Shield basically absorbs the wardec.

I'm not really sure how they are doing it, but the current wardec mechanics basically make it so they can permanently lock the other corp into a war with them which is utterly insane, but it works. They have something like 200ish corporations stuck in a permanent war with them lol.
Beckie DeLey
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#19 - 2012-11-16 19:48:57 UTC
Cadiz Aragon wrote:
I still would like to build standing via missions, maybe the new war deccers won't be such gate campers.

Now that you posted this, they might.


On a more serious note, you shouldn't count on a blockade runner fixing your problem. They are still highly vulnerable at the undock - you will just be locked in your market hub should your war targets camp the undock like most of the deccing corps do. Trust me, i lost a Viator on the Rens undock shortly after buying my first one because i didn't know that the cloak wouldn't work... Big smile Live and learn.

My siren's name is Brick and she is the prettiest.
Cadiz Aragon
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#20 - 2012-11-16 20:58:11 UTC
Morikar wrote:

Read the details here: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=156437

Basically you get your corp to apply to join the Dec Shield alliance. Once accepted you get kicked out right away, but Dec Shield basically absorbs the wardec.

I'm not really sure how they are doing it, but the current wardec mechanics basically make it so they can permanently lock the other corp into a war with them which is utterly insane, but it works. They have something like 200ish corporations stuck in a permanent war with them lol.


ahh, cool, I read up on it and it turns out that one of the corps that war decced us seems to have been caught up in this scheme just recently by one of the other corps that they war decced.

I did some research on the other corp and it looks like a 2 man throwaway corp that systematically war decs corps with industry key words in their names. Its funny how certain people get their jollies
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