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Goons - two years on the tech moons - how you guys feel about that, question about game future

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Vincent Gaines
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#81 - 2012-11-15 18:49:18 UTC
Keen Fallsword wrote:
How you guys feel about tech moons and overall game politics and balance ? what can be done with this situation to make our game better ?



I couldn't care less.

What could make it better? Many things. But complaining that Goons have tech moons is idiotic. Just like when BoB had the Dys moons and people like you whined and complained.


Things change, adapt or die.

Not a diplo. 

The above post was edited for spelling.
KrakizBad
Section 8.
#82 - 2012-11-15 18:49:52 UTC
Sadly true. If every GRRR GOOOOOOON whiner on GD jumped in a rapier and started camping the JB network, life would be interesting. I'm not gonna hold my breath.
Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#83 - 2012-11-15 18:52:32 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
They did, and rather than organize to fight it (or it without organization, guerrilla style, why aren't all these anti-goon forum posters HERE talking about rather than camping every Goon jump bridge with stealth bombers?) they come here and "forum snipe" at them, hoping that daddy (ccp) will come down from on high and fix it for them.

Be fair, they could be camping all of them all day and literally nobody would notice since there's literally nobody to gank. vOv

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat
Beekeeper Bob
Beekeepers Anonymous
#84 - 2012-11-15 18:52:50 UTC
Remiel Pollard wrote:
Keen Fallsword wrote:
Remiel Pollard wrote:
Keen Fallsword wrote:
Jantunen the Infernal wrote:
If you don't want goons to have so many tech moons, you are free to undock and take them for yourself.


Stay on topic please. one more time:
My question again: How you guys feel about tech moons and overall game politics and balance ? what can be done with this situation to make our game better ?


Stay on topic? You made the topic, mate. The goons are in the heading of the topic. This is the topic - if you want them off the moons, you take them off the moons. It's not up to CCP to play the game for you. That's what makes the game great. Getting CCP to make it easy for us would not make it better.


No i have nothing to Goons. Goons are in topic cos game is unbalanced. let try to find a way to make game better balanced. Be constructive BRO. "Undock and kill all goons" is 6 yrs old comment and you know that


I'm not being deconstructive, I'm trying to tell you where you're going wrong. First of all, let's leave the remarks about maturity out of it - so far, that's the most immature thing that's been posted here.

What I know is that the game is working *AS INTENDED*. What you seem to *think* is that the goons are a problem - they aren't, and if they're a problem to you then they're your problem. Deal with it. The Goons haven't done anything to warrant any sort of interference from CCP.

You made the goons the topic, and claimed they are making the game "unbalanced". You are wrong, you just can't figure out how to outsmart them.



You aren't very bright are you?
CCP created a scenario where a single entity could gain control of absurd amounts of isk, and make their pvp risk free. When you have endless free ships to put your pilots in, who can stand against you?
Not only that, but instead of addressing the issue, CCP has turned a blind eye on it for so long, even if they fixed it right now, the imbalance will continue for years, the isk flowing from the tech moons is that large.

No amount of ratting/mining/trading/incursioning can compete with the tech, the only way to have a chance financially is to find a rich guy, have him cash in 1000 plex and pay for your war. (It's been done, didn't work out)

So explain how you would go about removing them from the moons...rather than just saying "Man up and take them". Lol




Signature removed - CCP Eterne
Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#85 - 2012-11-15 18:55:52 UTC
Beekeeper Bob wrote:
and make their pvp risk free.

Pray tell, how is our PVP risk free?

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat
Lady Spank
Get Out Nasty Face
#86 - 2012-11-15 18:59:01 UTC
This thread has had posts deleted with no explanation why. CCP are covering up something.

Its probably because CCP hires Goons to responsible positions and now they want to hide things and are corrupt.

There will be a weekend special on tinfoil hats in Jita.

(ಠ_ృ) ~ It Takes a Million Years to Become Diamonds So Lets Just Burn Like Coal Until the Sky's Black ~ (ಠ_ృ)
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#87 - 2012-11-15 19:07:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
Beekeeper Bob wrote:
You aren't very bright are you?
CCP created a scenario where a single entity could gain control of absurd amounts of isk, and make their pvp risk free.
Yes, but it's not really an option to remove L4s at this point. I can only assume that you meant “pve”, not “pvp” since there is pretty much only one thing in the entire game that qualifies as risk-free, and that is missions.

Quote:
So explain how you would go about removing them from the moons...rather than just saying "Man up and take them".
Learn from history. How were they taken in the first place? You might be shocked to learned that there is no new or special magic formula for this — the sov system has been pretty static for quite some time now.

Vel'drinn wrote:
It will be interesting to see null reshaped when CCP finally gets around to making tech resources deplete.
With a bit of luck, not even CCP is as clueless as doing something like that.

Azami Nevinyrall wrote:
Page 5, I'm slightly impressed to see a lack of Devs in his thread...
You're impressed that the devs aren't posting in obvious retardotroll threads? You need to heighten your expectations. Lol
Then again, since they like to troll almost as much as the OP does, it wouldn't be entirely surprising.
Colonel Xaven
Perkone
Caldari State
#88 - 2012-11-15 19:10:33 UTC
Beekeeper Bob wrote:

CCP created a scenario where a single entity could gain control of absurd amounts of isk, and make their pvp risk free. When you have endless free ships to put your pilots in, who can stand against you?
Not only that, but instead of addressing the issue, CCP has turned a blind eye on it for so long, even if they fixed it right now, the imbalance will continue for years, the isk flowing from the tech moons is that large.

No amount of ratting/mining/trading/incursioning can compete with the tech, the only way to have a chance financially is to find a rich guy, have him cash in 1000 plex and pay for your war. (It's been done, didn't work out)

So explain how you would go about removing them from the moons...rather than just saying "Man up and take them". Lol


You must be new to the game.
So, you must be thinking that the sandbox pleases a certain entity and you must believe that goons are CCP devs etc., because someone told you so.

I tell you what. There was a time, another entity / alliance / coalition was very strong some years ago. They got pretty skilled pilots, good FCs, good leadership, an entire region, T2 stuff including industry etc. and a GOAL. They seemed unbeatable.

Then, the entity that tried to wipe them out of nullspace switched over from classic sov warfare against them to another approach by espionage, manipulation, bribery. And they were successful. Kindof.

So, you are talking about Goon's endless resources of power, ISK and ships etc. You might realize that you (alone) cannot beat them. I am sorry, but CCP won't help you. Because if they would, the whole paradigm of players in the sandbox would be pushed ad absurdum.

You ask someone to explain how to remove Goons from moons. My advice: Look at the history of EvE's bigger entities, make your way through game mechanics, try metagaming (espionage, bribery, whatever) and find friends who help you. Maybe you are able to drive a conflict between the two biggest entities?

Oh well, I am thinking for you. That's wrong. Try thinking for yourself. And that goes to all other QQ "please ccp take away the stuff from evil goons" haters here. Welcome to EvE. Blink

www.facebook.com/RazorAlliance
FeralShadow
Tribal Liberation Force
Minmatar Republic
#89 - 2012-11-15 19:22:32 UTC
The OP's views are idiotic. This is a game that INTENTIONALLY promotes the HAVES and the HAVE NOTS. You are clearly the latter. I'm also the latter, if the HAVES are the goons. TBFH I don't care that I'm a "Have Not" because I've found ways around it and I clearly am with the "HAVES" in terms of assets.

Because this game PURPOSEFULLY promotes a divide between people who HAVE and the people who HAVE NOT, there CANNOT be a perfect balance built into the game! IT's UP TO YOU TO CREATE THE BALANCE THAT YOU THINK THERE SHOULD BE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!111oneoneeleven


I'm really tired of these threads. Why do I even read the forums any more? Every one of the threads like this are started by people who think they are entitled to a perfectly balanced and fair game without having to put any effort of their own into it. It's an utterly ridiculous notion.

One of the bitter points of a good bittervet is the realisation that all those SP don't really do much, and that the newbie is having much more fun with what little he has. - Tippia
Conrad Makbure
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#90 - 2012-11-15 19:38:31 UTC
I think they nailed it on the head with the comment "spreadsheets in space just doesn't cut it...". They really should add new content in addition to the features. Nerfing the tech moons may not be the answer, but it's clear cut to me that they really need to bring new content into this game and I mean brand new stuff. Makes me wonder if they even have any creativity on their staff.
Prez21
D-sync
D-sync.
#91 - 2012-11-15 19:40:46 UTC
This seem a pretty stupid topic but going to reply anyway.

CCP didnt let the Goons sit on all these moons, the Goons just took them, yes CCP has really made a mess of moon income over the past few years, the balance of 0.0 passive income has been biased towards a few regions over the last 4-5 years and those alliances that can have took advantage of this.

What CCP has done though is make this game easy. For a game that once had a main selling point for being extremely harsh but rewarding, its turned into anything but harsh. Its so easy to live in 0.0, if your not an idiot and cosy up to the right alliances, 0.0 is almost as safe as high sec.

Most of the current 0.0 residents are clueless carebears who wouldnt last 5 minutes against a half decent pvp corp if it wasnt for jump bridges, jump frieghters and all the other crap that lets you travel around 0.0 in almost complete safety unless your an idiot. Gone are the days when alliances had to defend there space from hostiles who were cutting off supplies to there space or stopping there alliance mates being able to travel through there own space. Nowadays you just jump bridge right past the hostiles or jump straight to your home system with very little risk.

Cause EVE is so easy today this is why you see a massive increase in 0.0 residents who form these stupid size blobs, i dont mind these coalitions forming fleets of 500+ if they can put these numbers together then well played to them, i would just like to see CCP make it harder to survive in 0.0 and make it so alliances have to defend there space and not just cower in a station until 400 of there friends come and bail them out.
Beekeeper Bob
Beekeepers Anonymous
#92 - 2012-11-15 19:41:25 UTC
Colonel Xaven wrote:
Beekeeper Bob wrote:

CCP created a scenario where a single entity could gain control of absurd amounts of isk, and make their pvp risk free. When you have endless free ships to put your pilots in, who can stand against you?
Not only that, but instead of addressing the issue, CCP has turned a blind eye on it for so long, even if they fixed it right now, the imbalance will continue for years, the isk flowing from the tech moons is that large.

No amount of ratting/mining/trading/incursioning can compete with the tech, the only way to have a chance financially is to find a rich guy, have him cash in 1000 plex and pay for your war. (It's been done, didn't work out)

So explain how you would go about removing them from the moons...rather than just saying "Man up and take them". Lol


You must be new to the game.
So, you must be thinking that the sandbox pleases a certain entity and you must believe that goons are CCP devs etc., because someone told you so.

I tell you what. There was a time, another entity / alliance / coalition was very strong some years ago. They got pretty skilled pilots, good FCs, good leadership, an entire region, T2 stuff including industry etc. and a GOAL. They seemed unbeatable.

Then, the entity that tried to wipe them out of nullspace switched over from classic sov warfare against them to another approach by espionage, manipulation, bribery. And they were successful. Kindof.

So, you are talking about Goon's endless resources of power, ISK and ships etc. You might realize that you (alone) cannot beat them. I am sorry, but CCP won't help you. Because if they would, the whole paradigm of players in the sandbox would be pushed ad absurdum.

You ask someone to explain how to remove Goons from moons. My advice: Look at the history of EvE's bigger entities, make your way through game mechanics, try metagaming (espionage, bribery, whatever) and find friends who help you. Maybe you are able to drive a conflict between the two biggest entities?

Oh well, I am thinking for you. That's wrong. Try thinking for yourself. And that goes to all other QQ "please ccp take away the stuff from evil goons" haters here. Welcome to EvE. Blink



Once again you spew nonsense, while avoiding the main point.
What group do you think you could put together, that could take even one tech moon? What group has the isk to fight that war?

You do know that the Moon re-balance was done by CCP to break the bottleneck they had created with moon goo, and instead they end up creating another even bigger one. Rather than addressing it, they have ignored it. Can you argue with that point?

And seriously, all that meta-game crap is for people who have no life, the average player could care less about it.

It also opens up serious questions about the game itself, when it can be manipulated from the outside. What's to stop someone from paying another person real cash to throw the switch on an alliance? Over the line? How would you ever know? How could it ever be proved?
Certainly, with the number of players in this game that require plex to play, because they can't afford it, it wouldn't take a lot of cash to persuade one of these people to roll over.
I wouldn't even blame them, it is just a game after all. But since it's a game, I play it for fun, not for practicing manipulation. Lol
If I see something wrong with the game, I bring it up, sorry you don't agree, but since you can't seem to argue the central point, of "how would you finance a war to take a tech moon" I won't waste anymore time on you....

Signature removed - CCP Eterne
Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#93 - 2012-11-15 19:47:39 UTC
Prez21 wrote:
Most of the current 0.0 residents are clueless carebears who wouldnt last 5 minutes against a half decent pvp corp if it wasnt for jump bridges

Hint: Jumpbridges don't let anyone travel in "total safety".

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat
Colonel Xaven
Perkone
Caldari State
#94 - 2012-11-15 19:53:02 UTC  |  Edited by: Colonel Xaven
Beekeeper Bob wrote:

What group do you think you could put together, that could take even one tech moon? What group has the isk to fight that war?


A strong group with smart people and a goal. A big group. Yes, you moan that there isn't any yet. But by ranting and insulting in the forums you won't change that.

Quote:

You do know that the Moon re-balance was done by CCP to break the bottleneck they had created with moon goo, and instead they end up creating another even bigger one. Rather than addressing it, they have ignored it. Can you argue with that point?


So you say CCP did something about Tech and then you say they ignored it. Man seriously, calm down and reflex your ranting.

Quote:
And seriously, all that meta-game crap is for people who have no life, the average player could care less about it. It also opens up serious questions about the game itself, when it can be manipulated from the outside.

You need the iWin iDisbandGoons button? Sorry, won't happen.
Imho this proves the sandbox approach pretty much. But your opinion, your right to think so.

Quote:
What's to stop someone from paying another person real cash to throw the switch on an alliance? Over the line? How would you ever know? How could it ever be proved?
Try it. Let's see!

Quote:
Certainly, with the number of players in this game that require plex to play, because they can't afford it, it wouldn't take a lot of cash to persuade one of these people to roll over. I wouldn't even blame them, it is just a game after all. But since it's a game, I play it for fun, not for practicing manipulation. Lol
If I see something wrong with the game, I bring it up, sorry you don't agree, but since you can't seem to argue the central point, of "how would you finance a war to take a tech moon" I won't waste anymore time on you....


Yeah, not easy to do such a massive change. Suprising, eh?

How would I finance a war to take a tech moon? Well, I wouldnt because I think I can't. If I really would want to break a big powerful entity, I wouldn't try it straight in the face (or by demanding a button for it in the forums). I would try to find another way. But actually it's up to you which way you wanna chosse, because it's also your sandbox.

www.facebook.com/RazorAlliance
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#95 - 2012-11-15 19:57:35 UTC
What needs to be changed?
Space needs to be worth keeping for more than just its moons. Alliance income needs to be bottom-up, not top-down. There needs to be more incentive for holding and defending space

There's something wrong with the game when wars nowadays predictably begin and end with "we didn't want that space anyway".

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
Edgar Cayce
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#96 - 2012-11-15 20:00:50 UTC  |  Edited by: Edgar Cayce
Its true tbh Goons have made the game incredibly boring, they pretty much stamped on any interesting 0.0 eve pvp block because of the ******** amount of isk they can throw into ship replacements during a campaign and outblob. This is the reason alot of people have lost interest in 0.0 polotics and Eve in general because its all the same

They have come up with a ****** proof and no individual pvp skill required fleet comp called the Alpha fleet, the only counter to there alpha fleet was a super cap Alpha fleet and CCP killed that off aswell. Yes Ahacs have some success against alpha fleets but if they have enough huggins/lokis then it really doesnt matter. Because of there isk they can loose fight after fight but still win war after war due to thier isk reserves and how easy CCP has made it to refit and rejoin a fight.

Tbh I hope Eve looses around half of its subscribors and CCP go bankrupt within the next 2 years, then the decent pvpers and old vets of Eve can finally turn their back on the game that has consumed so much of our lives
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#97 - 2012-11-15 20:02:12 UTC
Beekeeper Bob wrote:
What group do you think you could put together, that could take even one tech moon? What group has the isk to fight that war?
The goons could do it. Why can't others? And even with their nice little nest egg, they couldn't take on the rest of EVE — it's just that the rest of EVE apparently has little interest in unseating them.

Quote:
You do know that the Moon re-balance was done by CCP to break the bottleneck they had created with moon goo, and instead they end up creating another even bigger one. Rather than addressing it, they have ignored it. Can you argue with that point?
No, but that's just because CCP haven't been listening to the goons as much as they should have. Anyway, they're trying to figure out ways to break that bottleneck now so we'll see what happens.
Jenn aSide
Worthless Carebears
The Initiative.
#98 - 2012-11-15 20:06:17 UTC
Tippia wrote:
]The goons could do it. Why can't others? And even with their nice little nest egg, they couldn't take on the rest of EVE — it's just that the rest of EVE apparently has little interest in unseating them.


I've only been playing EVE since 2007, but in my time it's been the same old song. BoB and Co, the Russians, the (Real) Northern Coaltion, and it's CFC/HBC. Other than CFC/HBC EVERY other "omg they are to rich/too entrenched meag-boc has fallen, and CFC/HBC WILL suffer the same fate eventually.

But you can't say that to the doomsayers, the same people for whom EVE has been dying since day 2 of EVE.
Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#99 - 2012-11-15 20:09:21 UTC
Edgar Cayce wrote:
Its true tbh Goons have made the game incredibly boring, they pretty much stamped on any interesting 0.0 eve pvp block because of the ******** amount of isk they can throw into ship replacements during a campaign and outblob. This is the reason alot of people have lost interest in 0.0 polotics and Eve in general because its all the same

They have come up with a ****** proof and no individual pvp skill required fleet comp called the Alpha fleet, the only counter to there alpha fleet was a super cap Alpha fleet and CCP killed that off aswell. Yes Ahacs have some success against alpha fleets but if they have enough huggins/lokis then it really doesnt matter. Because of there isk they can loose fight after fight but still win war after war due to thier isk reserves and how easy CCP has made it to refit and rejoin a fight.

Tbh I hope Eve looses around half of its subscribors and CCP go bankrupt within the next 2 years, then the decent pvpers and old vets of Eve can finally turn their back on the game that has consumed so much of our lives

This is what it sounds like when you get kicked out of your space by goons, and feel the urge to rage impotently.

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat
Jenn aSide
Worthless Carebears
The Initiative.
#100 - 2012-11-15 20:13:28 UTC
Lord Zim wrote:
Edgar Cayce wrote:
Its true tbh Goons have made the game incredibly boring, they pretty much stamped on any interesting 0.0 eve pvp block because of the ******** amount of isk they can throw into ship replacements during a campaign and outblob. This is the reason alot of people have lost interest in 0.0 polotics and Eve in general because its all the same

They have come up with a ****** proof and no individual pvp skill required fleet comp called the Alpha fleet, the only counter to there alpha fleet was a super cap Alpha fleet and CCP killed that off aswell. Yes Ahacs have some success against alpha fleets but if they have enough huggins/lokis then it really doesnt matter. Because of there isk they can loose fight after fight but still win war after war due to thier isk reserves and how easy CCP has made it to refit and rejoin a fight.

Tbh I hope Eve looses around half of its subscribors and CCP go bankrupt within the next 2 years, then the decent pvpers and old vets of Eve can finally turn their back on the game that has consumed so much of our lives

This is what it sounds like when you get kicked out of your space by goons, and feel the urge to rage impotently.


I just got kicked out of my space by Goons, I reserve the right to rage....with Bullets!