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CrimeWatch 2.0 Feedback and Questions

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Burseg Sardaukar
Free State Project
#1 - 2012-11-15 00:50:42 UTC
Comments:

I like the new flagging system a LOT.
Being able to differentiate between criminal, outlaw, aggression (limited engagement) alone is amazing.

Questions:
1. If a neutral party remote reps an individual that is in a war, but not actively fighting (no PVP flag), how does this remote repper get flagged, if at all?

2. If a neutral party remote reps an individual that is in a war, and IS actively fighting (PVP flag), how does this remote repper get flagged?

3. Sec loss: Now that sec losses are front loaded into the "Aggression" phase and a full penalty is incurred regardless of ship destruction or the victim has a chance to fire back, is there any system being implemented to help repair sec status equally as fast? For example, just shooting a belt rat without destroying it for a full sec gain?

4. Fanfest idea: During the original introduction of this new crimewatch idea back at fanfest, an idea was floated that the lowest a player's secstatus could go without doing a Criminal act (suicide ganking in hisec, podding in lowsec) was -4.9. Is this still in the cards?

5. Fanfest idea: Also, an idea was floated of removing Faction Navy pursuit in 0.5-1.0 security systems if a player was -4.9 or higher sec status, but players -5.0 and below would be pursued as they currently do. Is this also part of crimewatch?

If the answers to 3-5 are "no," I foresee a lot of frustration on the side of lowsec pvper's (who wish to stay in good sec range) that now take massive sec hits for anything they shoot, especially with lowsec being terrible for regaining sec status as is. Is there going to be further iteration in support of lowsec lifestyles? WIll the sec loss amounts be reduced at all? As they've already been increased once in the last 4 or 5 expansion (has it been that long?) when victim and attacker sec status's entered into the equation....

Any answers would be appreciated!

Can't wait to dual box my Dust toon and EVE toon on the same machine!
CCP Masterplan
C C P
C C P Alliance
#2 - 2012-11-15 21:52:53 UTC
1) No flag
2) Suspect flag
3/4/5) Let's see what the new year brings :)

"This one time, on patch day..."

@ccp_masterplan  |  Team Five-0: Rewriting the law
croakroach
24th Imperial Crusade
Amarr Empire
#3 - 2012-11-15 23:07:01 UTC
CCP Masterplan wrote:

2) Suspect flag


Last i checked on Buck, you get no flag either for #2. Was it fixed?
Burseg Sardaukar
Free State Project
#4 - 2012-11-16 00:08:32 UTC
CCP Masterplan wrote:
1) No flag
2) Suspect flag


Cool. I like this a lot.

CCP Masterplan wrote:
3/4/5) Let's see what the new year brings :)


Sadly, not so cool. I'm glad its being discussed (and possibly implemented?), but that gives me at least 1 month of losing sec status like crazy just by shooting AT things, with no similarly easy way to get it back.

With the current bounty overhaul (with bounty placement no longer being tied to sec status) I thought consequences for doing bad things were going to be much more player-driven... I'm not sure how excited I am about the lowsec portion of Crimewatch overhaul...

Unless you were to drop the sec loss down the current "Aggression" level. Then I'll stop whining. ;)

Can't wait to dual box my Dust toon and EVE toon on the same machine!
Warde Guildencrantz
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#5 - 2012-11-16 13:59:36 UTC
Burseg Sardaukar wrote:


CCP Masterplan wrote:
3/4/5) Let's see what the new year brings :)


Sadly, not so cool. I'm glad its being discussed (and possibly implemented?), but that gives me at least 1 month of losing sec status like crazy just by shooting AT things, with no similarly easy way to get it back.

With the current bounty overhaul (with bounty placement no longer being tied to sec status) I thought consequences for doing bad things were going to be much more player-driven... I'm not sure how excited I am about the lowsec portion of Crimewatch overhaul...

Unless you were to drop the sec loss down the current "Aggression" level. Then I'll stop whining. ;)


Just go -10 if you are in low sec. The only thing that needs to be fixed is the ridiculous amount of time it takes to get from -10 to -5 when you are trying to leave it.

That's why you never leave >: )

TunDraGon ~ Low sec piracy since 2003 ~ Youtube ~ Join Us
CCP Masterplan
C C P
C C P Alliance
#6 - 2012-11-16 16:12:48 UTC
croakroach wrote:
CCP Masterplan wrote:

2) Suspect flag


Last i checked on Buck, you get no flag either for #2. Was it fixed?

When did you check? I think yesterday's build should have it in.

Burseg Sardaukar wrote:
CCP Masterplan wrote:
3/4/5) Let's see what the new year brings :)


Sadly, not so cool. I'm glad its being discussed (and possibly implemented?), but that gives me at least 1 month of losing sec status like crazy just by shooting AT things, with no similarly easy way to get it back.

With the current bounty overhaul (with bounty placement no longer being tied to sec status) I thought consequences for doing bad things were going to be much more player-driven... I'm not sure how excited I am about the lowsec portion of Crimewatch overhaul...

Unless you were to drop the sec loss down the current "Aggression" level. Then I'll stop whining. ;)

We have a pretty good plan, but simply not enough time to implement it for Retribution 1.0

"This one time, on patch day..."

@ccp_masterplan  |  Team Five-0: Rewriting the law
croakroach
24th Imperial Crusade
Amarr Empire
#7 - 2012-11-16 18:19:13 UTC
It's fixed, as is looting of war target wrecks :D

Yay! Good job.
Regan Rotineque
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#8 - 2012-11-16 18:37:48 UTC
Hello,


Question - if you are flying in say a Fenrir - and you encounter rats at a gate in Null - they shoot at me and I get a 5 minute flag

Why do I get flagged in a vessel which has no offensive output?

I would think that a non-combat vessel should not be able to get flagged at all

~R~
croakroach
24th Imperial Crusade
Amarr Empire
#9 - 2012-11-16 23:08:05 UTC
Regan Rotineque wrote:
Hello,


Question - if you are flying in say a Fenrir - and you encounter rats at a gate in Null - they shoot at me and I get a 5 minute flag

Why do I get flagged in a vessel which has no offensive output?

I would think that a non-combat vessel should not be able to get flagged at all

~R~


Scout first?
Circumstantial Evidence
#10 - 2012-11-17 00:09:26 UTC
Regan Rotineque wrote:
Hello, Question - if you are flying in say a Fenrir - and you encounter rats at a gate in Null - they shoot at me and I get a 5 minute flag
Why do I get flagged in a vessel which has no offensive output?
I would think that a non-combat vessel should not be able to get flagged at all
~R~
I kind of agree with this complaint, I think the intent is to increase the risk of making isk by shooting npc's in low/null. Getting a log off timer *just* by getting shot by npc, player hasn't done anything yet - then logging out because some potential hunter comes into local, seems excessive. (in before "but... this is EVE!")

This npc versus freighter scenario could be a bigger prize than a carrier logging off surrounded by his NPC wrecks, but either will now be exploding to any player who can get a single shot at them, even after logoff. Anyone who can scan down ships is going to be as big of a hero as any tackler or interdictor pilot, with the coming death to logoffski.

The timer messages have improved, breaking down "cause" of the notification and "consequence":
"Ship will remain in space on log off until timer expires."

I'd like to add the word "disconnect " so its ultra clear: the timer applies to you whether the act is voluntary (log off) or involuntary (disconnect).

"Ship will remain in space after log off or disconnect, until timer ends."
Regan Rotineque
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#11 - 2012-11-17 02:32:57 UTC
I have no problem with scouting first :)

I have just never really cared whether or not an NPC took a pot shot at an indy before at a gate.

It has never mattered, what I dont understand is how a non combatant ship can get a criminal flagging/suspect flagging.

It has no guns....and unless you consider ramming an opponent...it does not make sense (particularly when the flag is caused by NPC action)

now - if i was hit by the actions of a RL Player - enemy or otherwise....okay flag me.

But NPC shots....dont make sense to me for non combatants like JF or Freighters.

~R~
Garviel Tarrant
Beyond Divinity Inc
Shadow Cartel
#12 - 2012-11-17 03:08:59 UTC
Regan Rotineque wrote:
Hello,


Question - if you are flying in say a Fenrir - and you encounter rats at a gate in Null - they shoot at me and I get a 5 minute flag

Why do I get flagged in a vessel which has no offensive output?

I would think that a non-combat vessel should not be able to get flagged at all

~R~



Because Logofski should never be an option to escape danger.

BYDI recruitment closed-ish

Ganthrithor
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#13 - 2012-11-17 09:15:15 UTC
So I flew to a belt on Buckingham and shot autocannons at a rock.

I promptly inherited both a weapons flag timer (well, I guess I did shoot at something) AND A PVP flag. What? "You have engaged in combat with another capsuleer?" Really?

I mean, it's gonna be funny to see people who shoot stargates while dicking around get killed in new and interesting ways, but seriously? PvP flags for shooting a rock that doesn't even take damage? It seems a little odd.

Really hoping mining lasers trigger the same 15 minute flag, but I doubt it for some reason :3
Regan Rotineque
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#14 - 2012-11-18 05:01:59 UTC
Garviel Tarrant wrote:
Regan Rotineque wrote:
Hello,


Question - if you are flying in say a Fenrir - and you encounter rats at a gate in Null - they shoot at me and I get a 5 minute flag

Why do I get flagged in a vessel which has no offensive output?

I would think that a non-combat vessel should not be able to get flagged at all

~R~



Because Logofski should never be an option to escape danger.



I totally agree with you...that logging off to escape your death should not be something that happens.

And if I got flagged cause you or another RL person shot at me....i say this is a good thing, as for NPC flagging of ships, I again have no problems with any war vessel ie: one that has guns which obtains a flag from RL person or NPC shooting them.

What i have a problem with is indy ships which draw flags from rats shooting at them. With the number of "Socket Closed" recently I can imagine me in a Nomad, Orca or Mack getting a flag from a rat - then boom....out goes the lights - socket closed. Only for me to log in a minute later and discover that my ship has been eaten alive.

Does not make much sense to me. Suspect and criminal flags should apply to any war vessel when shot at by RL or NPC. But indy ships should not get a flag unless RL shoots at em imho.

~R~
Mars Theran
Foreign Interloper
#15 - 2012-11-18 07:31:00 UTC
croakroach wrote:
Regan Rotineque wrote:
Hello,


Question - if you are flying in say a Fenrir - and you encounter rats at a gate in Null - they shoot at me and I get a 5 minute flag

Why do I get flagged in a vessel which has no offensive output?

I would think that a non-combat vessel should not be able to get flagged at all

~R~


Scout first?


It's good to know you need a scout to avoid flagging..

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CCP Masterplan
C C P
C C P Alliance
#16 - 2012-11-18 14:18:10 UTC
Regan Rotineque wrote:
I have no problem with scouting first :)

I have just never really cared whether or not an NPC took a pot shot at an indy before at a gate.

FYI getting shot by an NPC already gives an aggression timer, but it wasn't very visible (which is being improved) and it was only 2 minutes for NPC aggression rather than 5.
Regan Rotineque wrote:
It has never mattered, what I dont understand is how a non combatant ship can get a criminal flagging/suspect flagging.

It has no guns....and unless you consider ramming an opponent...it does not make sense (particularly when the flag is caused by NPC action)

There is no way for a non-combat ship to get a Criminal flag at all. The only way such a ship can get a Suspect flag is for container-theft.

"This one time, on patch day..."

@ccp_masterplan  |  Team Five-0: Rewriting the law
Mars Theran
Foreign Interloper
#17 - 2012-11-19 01:03:34 UTC
CCP Masterplan wrote:
Regan Rotineque wrote:
I have no problem with scouting first :)

I have just never really cared whether or not an NPC took a pot shot at an indy before at a gate.

FYI getting shot by an NPC already gives an aggression timer, but it wasn't very visible (which is being improved) and it was only 2 minutes for NPC aggression rather than 5.
Regan Rotineque wrote:
It has never mattered, what I dont understand is how a non combatant ship can get a criminal flagging/suspect flagging.

It has no guns....and unless you consider ramming an opponent...it does not make sense (particularly when the flag is caused by NPC action)

There is no way for a non-combat ship to get a Criminal flag at all. The only way such a ship can get a Suspect flag is for container-theft.


Well, that's good to hear. Lol
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