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Dev Blog: Fifty-Nine Down

First post
Author
Michael Harari
Genos Occidere
HYDRA RELOADED
#161 - 2012-11-18 00:46:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Michael Harari
Vincent Athena wrote:
Michael Harari wrote:
......... He has made poor decisions, and you have made good decisions.

..............and you still cant kill him, because you are in a kiting ship.


These two statements are contradictory. If you cannot kill him because you are in a kiting ship, you are the one who made a poor decision by getting in that kiting ship.


So you think it is a good change to make kiting ships completely incapable of killing a ****** in a battleship, regardless of pilot skill? The game should be decided at the fitting window?
Fon Revedhort
Monks of War
Siberian Squads
#162 - 2012-11-18 08:32:16 UTC
Michael Harari wrote:
Vincent Athena wrote:
Michael Harari wrote:
......... He has made poor decisions, and you have made good decisions.

..............and you still cant kill him, because you are in a kiting ship.


These two statements are contradictory. If you cannot kill him because you are in a kiting ship, you are the one who made a poor decision by getting in that kiting ship.


So you think it is a good change to make kiting ships completely incapable of killing a ****** in a battleship, regardless of pilot skill? The game should be decided at the fitting window?

That's what ECM apologists basically imply when accusuing us of not fitting ECCM Bear

"Being supporters of free speech and free and open [CSM] elections... we removed Fon Revedhort from eligibility". CCP, April 2013.

Vanths
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#163 - 2012-11-18 18:06:38 UTC
Steve Ronuken wrote:
How to balance freighters:

Add two low slots
knock 25% off the capacity (or so).
increase the max velocity by about 20%.
Knock the structure down by 30% or so.

Give it
CPU 70
PG 2


Means people can pick between tank, align time and cargo space.


Hmm, needs a mid slot.

Bait freighter!
Overtoad Hail
WormCraft
#164 - 2012-11-18 23:52:26 UTC
I think the missile change is good simply for the t2 getting their liabilities dropped. Now missioning lvl5's will be even faster.
Veryez
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#165 - 2012-11-19 02:00:15 UTC
In your 'rebalancing' efforts, could you take the time to explain why you are nerfing the rupture? Swapping a high to a low could probably be considered breaking even, but swapping a high to a mid is practically useless. Now granted I haven't sat in a rupture in many years, but the dual neut/nos or dual launcher setups are fairly standard. Changing this to an extra mid on an armor tanking ship winds up being a nerf no matter how you slice it. What's the rational behind this? Did I miss the fleets of ruptures flying around ganking everything?

Stop trying to pigeon hole minmatar ships into shield tanking setups. The ship that really needs more mids is the Muninn, but it's obviously not going to see any work for another year at least.

Also your nerf to the Hurricane is a bit too much, I thought CCP was looking at making smaller adjustments to avoid reducing ships to uselessness. If the intent was to force players to choose between fitting larger guns and a fitting mod, or smaller guns, then 200 pg is probably a better number.

I guess this is the achillies heel of EvE, they can't keep introducing new ships/modules and people have played and trained for a long time, so all they can do, is move ships/modules around and make players have to rebalance fits and swap out FOTMs.

Lastly does that change to TP bonus effect all t1 and t2 ships (i.e. the golem)?
Naomi Wildfire
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#166 - 2012-11-19 03:56:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Naomi Wildfire
i'm not to eager about the micro jump drive and its invulnerability to disruptors and bubbles until i get numbers on chargring times and at which point it starts to charge.
also the boost to the blackbird might be pretty unneeded cause we all know the pilots using them are dumping another SDA in it.
Yay for ECM

ISD BH Newmind > Jingle bells, Tuxford smells, Falcon laid an egg =D

Ribikoka
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#167 - 2012-11-19 10:58:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Ribikoka
Jaangel wrote:
Most changes in this patch are meh.

UI changes are a waste of time. and round. i hate circles.

But the micro jump drive is going to kill small gang pvp dead.

the game needs to buff using different ship types and tactics this just removes a whole line of changes.

oh and the new vaga model is worse looking than my arse.

once again CCP does what it think s needs to be done not what actualy needs to be done.

one day the devs will listen and eve will be great again.




1. +1
2. Micro Jump Drive not just going to kill small gang PVP but large too at the gates.
No more trap for enemy fleets on gate bubbles. It's a bullsh*t.
Try to catch a ship at region change gates which is 70km large and don't forget every single 0.0 entry gate is huge.
Try to catch something with scrambler when the enemy ship 70km far away from you. LOL
And more one thing Wcs+MJD+cloak=invulnerable ships.
So, MJD with this feature such a bubble and disruptor resists, it's a worst idea what CCP try to create.
Ribikoka
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#168 - 2012-11-19 11:04:18 UTC
Overtoad Hail wrote:
I think the missile change is good simply for the t2 getting their liabilities dropped. Now missioning lvl5's will be even faster.



?? With decreased damage and range, you will be missioning faster ? Really ? :D
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#169 - 2012-11-19 19:31:03 UTC
Ribikoka wrote:
Overtoad Hail wrote:
I think the missile change is good simply for the t2 getting their liabilities dropped. Now missioning lvl5's will be even faster.



?? With decreased damage and range, you will be missioning faster ? Really ? :D

Juding by this post and the one above, you need to try to get up to speed on what the changes involved actually are.

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.

Ribikoka
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#170 - 2012-11-19 19:41:15 UTC
Ranger 1 wrote:
Ribikoka wrote:
Overtoad Hail wrote:
I think the missile change is good simply for the t2 getting their liabilities dropped. Now missioning lvl5's will be even faster.



?? With decreased damage and range, you will be missioning faster ? Really ? :D

Juding by this post and the one above, you need to try to get up to speed on what the changes involved actually are.




Missile Changes
Morning. Wake up!!!
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#171 - 2012-11-19 20:57:52 UTC  |  Edited by: Ranger 1
Ribikoka wrote:
Ranger 1 wrote:
Ribikoka wrote:
Overtoad Hail wrote:
I think the missile change is good simply for the t2 getting their liabilities dropped. Now missioning lvl5's will be even faster.



?? With decreased damage and range, you will be missioning faster ? Really ? :D

Juding by this post and the one above, you need to try to get up to speed on what the changes involved actually are.




Missile Changes
Morning. Wake up!!!

Try reading his post again, very slowly.

Then look at the chart you linked, paying particular attention to the section on the T2 missiles (the ones that he referred to in his post).

Focus in on the damage and range column, where for the most part you will find a significant boost in damage and only a couple of very slight reductions in range.

Then consider that all missile skills and rigs will for the first time apply their affects to all missiles.

Then also consider that after this patch settles in the next step is to allow targeting computers/enhancers to also affect missiles.

I know you are upset that the one long range weapons system that was still way out of whack with all the others is finally being brought into line as far as base stats, but try not to let nerd rage blind you to the rest of the picture.

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.

Ribikoka
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#172 - 2012-11-19 21:02:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Ribikoka
Ranger 1 wrote:
Ribikoka wrote:
Ranger 1 wrote:
Ribikoka wrote:
Overtoad Hail wrote:
I think the missile change is good simply for the t2 getting their liabilities dropped. Now missioning lvl5's will be even faster.



?? With decreased damage and range, you will be missioning faster ? Really ? :D

Juding by this post and the one above, you need to try to get up to speed on what the changes involved actually are.




Missile Changes
Morning. Wake up!!!

Try reading his post again, very slowly.

Then look at the chart you linked, paying particular attention to the section on the T2 missiles (the ones that he referred to in his post).

Focus in on the damage and range column, where you will find a significant boost in damage and only a couple of very slight reductions in range.

Then consider that all missile skills and rigs will for the first time apply their affects to all missiles.

Then also consider that after this patch settles in the next step is to allow targeting computers/enhancers to also affect missiles.


Who need to read slowly thats you.
Boosted damage and very slight range reductions ? :D From 37km to 27km is slight reductions ? Or 33750 to 20962 is the small reductions ? Maybe the Expl velocity from 97 to 68 will be increasing your damage when you try to hit small targets ? LOL.
+Enhancers and computers, when the Trnacking Disruptors willbe reducing their ranges or will be change their explosions ? (New CCP TD idea ):D

"significant boost in damage" ROTFL

Decreased damage from 172 to 155 it's a boost ?
Decreased damage 180 to 162 it's a boost ?
Decreased damage 165 to 149 it's a boost ?
Decreased damage 180 to 162 it's a boost ?
Decreased damage 192 to 182 it's a boost ?

You need to wake up man from your pink dreams.
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#173 - 2012-11-19 21:08:10 UTC
Somebody else want to clue this guy in? Big smileBig smileBig smile

Okay, lets try this again.

His post was talking specifically about the T2 missiles, focus your eyes on that area.

On a related note, when did all NPC's start using TD's? Big smile

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.

Ribikoka
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#174 - 2012-11-19 21:16:49 UTC
Ranger 1 wrote:
Somebody else want to clue this guy in? Big smileBig smileBig smile

Okay, lets try this again.

His post was talking specifically about the T2 missiles, focus your eyes on that area.
Big smile


Man did you you know the Fury missiles is t2 missile ?

Check the datas you idiot.

Old damage=192
New damage =182

Old Range=33750
New Range=20962.5

Old Explosion Velocity=97
New Explosion Velocity=68

This is your boost.You matematics genius,.
Misanth
RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE
#175 - 2012-11-19 21:17:50 UTC  |  Edited by: Misanth
Just had 5 accounts expire, another one will in two days, can't really see myself reactiving them either. Will just keep a few combat pilots running for skill training.. so why do I post that as a reply to this dev blog?

Well this is about the winter expansion and ship balancing, right? Ok, let's talk about balancing:
* CCP have done a great job boosting afterburners and letting scramblers shut off mwd, while nerfing overall speed. Credit to those involved in this.
* CCP also did a good job ages ago when they fixed the overpowered dampeners, nosferatu etc, i.e. the ewar balancing. I see the changes that are being done for this expansion as an 'extention' to that. The added skills doesn't make much sense, other than to give us something to train, which is nice for us approaching 150mil SP (getting dull getting all rig skills, and useless t2 ships lv5), but - for younger pilots that is just a nuisance. And I can't really see any sense and logic in it, we had skills adding lock speed and range already, the +strength skills for the offense ewar is for offensive ewar. If that is too strong, nerf it, don't add in skills to counter it. That's just a poorly disguised time-/isk-sink.

The real issues tho, comes here:
* No considerations has been taken for the proper balancing of the "issues" with HML. Which, namely, was two folded: a) blobs. Drakes or Tengus was never too strong in small numbers, while in blobs they were, that's an issue with blobs and not the weapon type or ship itself. The Tengu got a bit too high damage with combined engineering/offensive subsystem, which still leaves all other setups (cloaky, for example) at extremely low damage output. Closer or lower than the other t3's. You going to nerf those too? At the same time, other HML ships (way more of those than the two nerfed) is getting shafted beyond belief. The Nighthawk was already bad, the Caldari cruiser and HACs was already suffering badly, and the Sacrilege etc suffers too. This is a great example of poor game balancing, not addressing the issue at hand but instead doing a blatant nerf over certain over-used shiptypes.
-> The nerf should have been to scale down the RoF bonus on Tengu's offensive subsystem (or removing the +1 launcher on engineering sub), and Drake should have had less buffer potential as that is what makes it so strong in blobs. HML should've been left the way it was.
* The ship balancing has been done on frigs and destroyers and cruisers. Only the third of those types really needed a major overhaul, the other two had it recently. What badly needs love a look at right now is t2 cruisers. HACs in particular, Recons have been quite alot weaker for years now with the increased damage/tank of players in general, solo killing a ratting Raven/Tengu/Drake in any Recon used to be common, but now it's damn hard. They all suffer from weak tank and horrible damage output, and the short warp range makes (even with max skills, obviously) a 2-300 au system a five to eight (yes, 5-8) jumps just to cross ONE system. Command Ships have needed massive love for years now, and it got worse with t3 introduction, as now the CS can barely be a fleet booster even.
* Blobs in general is a major focus for CCP, which at least for me personally (but this is obviously a personal comment, unlike the factual ones above) is massively offputting. EVE always catered everyone, and finding your own fortune and fights was always possible. Having people gather up to be stronger in numbers was always a strategy. But that was completely different when fleet sizes barely escalated past 20, or hell even past 200. But now that they easily go past 2000, and people live in upgraded sov-hubs (no belt ratting, no belt mining, jumpbridge access, titan bridges everywhere, etc) this is completely redudant. I spent hours and hours on a daily basis just to find someone to kill, getting few ones here and there. I regulary (yes, regulary) had people run from me when they were "only" 10-20 vs me and max +1 corpmate. FW is also blob hubs (and making FW emulate the nullsec behaviour is really the worst thing you can/could do, it should and could have a unique role as a smallscale part time easy-access PvP zone).

The day CCP starts to balance ships based on all kind of useage, not just blobs, and the days CCP starts to cater all players and not just the nullsec blobs and highsec carebears (let's face it CCP, the only reasonable semi-small and midscale PvP you still have in this game is in wormholes, which has it's own limitations - mainly massive time comumption compared to null- and lowsec), then perhaps you will have small- and midscale PvP players like me want to play your game again. It's been some great near-decade, and thank you but I'll keep my stuff. Who knows, maybe someone at CCP actually cares about PvP. And maybe, just maybe, I could dream, they will read this and actually think about what they're doing with the game.

+thanks to all the guys at the floor CCP, you had great staff helping me with petitions through the years, they deserve a future, give them some love.. i.e. incentitives for us PvP-interested players to reactivate our dying and dead accounts.

AFK-cloaking in a system near you.

Qvar Dar'Zanar
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#176 - 2012-11-19 21:19:31 UTC
Ribikoka wrote:


1. +1
2. Micro Jump Drive not just going to kill small gang PVP but large too at the gates.
No more trap for enemy fleets on gate bubbles. It's a bullsh*t.
Try to catch a ship at region change gates which is 70km large and don't forget every single 0.0 entry gate is huge.
Try to catch something with scrambler when the enemy ship 70km far away from you. LOL
And more one thing Wcs+MJD+cloak=invulnerable ships.
So, MJD with this feature such a bubble and disruptor resists, it's a worst idea what CCP try to create.


Are you aware that MJD can only be fit to battleships?
Ribikoka
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#177 - 2012-11-19 21:27:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Ribikoka
Qvar Dar'Zanar wrote:
Ribikoka wrote:


1. +1
2. Micro Jump Drive not just going to kill small gang PVP but large too at the gates.
No more trap for enemy fleets on gate bubbles. It's a bullsh*t.
Try to catch a ship at region change gates which is 70km large and don't forget every single 0.0 entry gate is huge.
Try to catch something with scrambler when the enemy ship 70km far away from you. LOL
And more one thing Wcs+MJD+cloak=invulnerable ships.
So, MJD with this feature such a bubble and disruptor resists, it's a worst idea what CCP try to create.


Are you aware that MJD can only be fit to battleships?


I know which shiptype will be use MJD, but i think you never saw trapped 0.0 battleship fleets on gate bubbles.
After MJD this will be gone.
Misanth
RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE
#178 - 2012-11-19 21:32:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Misanth
Qvar Dar'Zanar wrote:
Ribikoka wrote:


1. +1
2. Micro Jump Drive not just going to kill small gang PVP but large too at the gates.
No more trap for enemy fleets on gate bubbles. It's a bullsh*t.
Try to catch a ship at region change gates which is 70km large and don't forget every single 0.0 entry gate is huge.
Try to catch something with scrambler when the enemy ship 70km far away from you. LOL
And more one thing Wcs+MJD+cloak=invulnerable ships.
So, MJD with this feature such a bubble and disruptor resists, it's a worst idea what CCP try to create.


Are you aware that MJD can only be fit to battleships?


Someone combatprobing + suiciding a dictor to bubble a blob of battleships should be rewarded. Someone putting point on a ship (given they put more points than the ship has defence, ofc, considering stabs and +strength ships etc), should be rewarded.

He still has a point, this is making it even easier to run from combat. You know why CCP nerfed stabs back in the days? Boosted our hitpoints to begin with? Nerfed speeds etc? CCP have always, since early days, been trying to have players commit to fighting. MJD does nothing of that. It gives a tool to run, or a tool to snipe more effectively. Essentially; a way to run and/or maintain your battleships out of scramble range.

How can that possibly be good for combat in any way, whatsoever?

If you want to avoid gatecamps, there's plenty of means. Scouts, bring more numbers, titanbridge past (or on top of) them, or hell why not try this radical idea - fight them? Shocked
MJD is a joke. It might have served a purpose back in sniping battleship days, but that died out more than five years ago for a reason.

AFK-cloaking in a system near you.

Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#179 - 2012-11-19 21:44:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Ranger 1
Ribikoka wrote:
Ranger 1 wrote:
Somebody else want to clue this guy in? Big smileBig smileBig smile

Okay, lets try this again.

His post was talking specifically about the T2 missiles, focus your eyes on that area.
Big smile


Man did you you know the Fury missiles is t2 missile ?

Check the datas you idiot.

Old damage=192
New damage =182

Old Range=33750
New Range=20962.5

Old Explosion Velocity=97
New Explosion Velocity=68

This is your boost.You matematics genius,.


Very few people try to argue the fact that heavy missiles in particular were given over the top range even for a long range weapons system, and this was coupled with the damage potential of a short range weapons system. Those that do try to argue this get laughed at quietly by the rest of the EVE community. Originally heavy missiles were tying to cover all the bases as at that time there was no such thing as HAM's. Correcting this issue is long over due.

Heavy missiles simply got brought into line with the rest for the very first time... and the next round of changes will allow ample opportunity mitigate these changes if you choose to do so with your fittings.

The post you quoted was simply trying to point out that the missile changes affect far more than just heavy missiles, and over all are a rather nice boost for missile combat in general, paricularly for T2 missiles. However you appear to be blinded by hysteria and can't focus on anything other than your heavy missiles.

Now mind your manners.

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.

Ribikoka
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#180 - 2012-11-19 21:52:27 UTC
Misanth wrote:
Qvar Dar'Zanar wrote:
Ribikoka wrote:


1. +1
2. Micro Jump Drive not just going to kill small gang PVP but large too at the gates.
No more trap for enemy fleets on gate bubbles. It's a bullsh*t.
Try to catch a ship at region change gates which is 70km large and don't forget every single 0.0 entry gate is huge.
Try to catch something with scrambler when the enemy ship 70km far away from you. LOL
And more one thing Wcs+MJD+cloak=invulnerable ships.
So, MJD with this feature such a bubble and disruptor resists, it's a worst idea what CCP try to create.


Are you aware that MJD can only be fit to battleships?


Someone combatprobing + suiciding a dictor to bubble a blob of battleships should be rewarded. Someone putting point on a ship (given they put more points than the ship has defence, ofc, considering stabs and +strength ships etc), should be rewarded.

He still has a point, this is making it even easier to run from combat. You know why CCP nerfed stabs back in the days? Boosted our hitpoints to begin with? Nerfed speeds etc? CCP have always, since early days, been trying to have players commit to fighting. MJD does nothing of that. It gives a tool to run, or a tool to snipe more effectively. Essentially; a way to run and/or maintain your battleships out of scramble range.

How can that possibly be good for combat in any way, whatsoever?

If you want to avoid gatecamps, there's plenty of means. Scouts, bring more numbers, titanbridge past (or on top of) them, or hell why not try this radical idea - fight them? Shocked
MJD is a joke. It might have served a purpose back in sniping battleship days, but that died out more than five years ago for a reason.



Fully agreed. "It gives a tool to run"
Immunity against bubble and disruptor it's a fail concept.
What happened before at gate battles, the enemy BS fleet jumped to solar system and tried to align somewhere in the solar system and tried to avoid enemy bubbles while the dictors tried chasing them and drop dic bubbles and tried to interfere the enemy fleet to jump and run away.
After this, the battleships will be jump in and will be jump out, no matter how many bubbles and dictor at gate.
Some ship will be catch there ? Who care that, when the almost full fleet will be survive ?