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The Right to AFK Mine - The Dystopia of 2015 is coming

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Kainotomiu Ronuken
koahisquad
#121 - 2012-11-15 18:04:50 UTC
Kenneth O'Hara wrote:
So I checked out the www.MinerBumping.com site... Wow. You guys are bullies. What's the matter? Did mommy not give you enough hugs growing up?

What you're doing is not dealing with a legitimate problem but harrassing players into buying permits which they don't need. You don't even care if they are AFK. You just want the isk form players without backbones buying "permits" It's extortion. From where I'm sitting, this whole bumping business is a front. Yet, in EVE, It's perfectly legal but still wrong. This "code" you speak of is a load of crap and frankly, you can shove it straight up your ***.

"The path of the righteous man is beset on all sides by the iniquities of the selfish and the tyranny of evil men. Blessed is he who in the name of charity and good will shepherds the weak through the valley of darkness, for he is truly his brother's keeper and the finder of lost children. And I will strike down upon thee with great vengeance and furious anger those who attempt to poison and destroy my brothers. And you will know my name is the Lord, ...when I lay my vengeance upon thee." ~Samuel L. Jackson, Pulp Fiction

Now that you've apparently done your research on the New Order, you've made several points in a short space of time. Luckily, none of these are original so i don't actually have to think up answers for them. Anyway, they are:


  • Miners don't need permits.
  • The New Order doesn't care if miners are AFK.
  • The New Order is only bumping miners for their precious ISK.
  • I don't agree with what you're doing.


I shall now endeavour to answer each of your points in turn.

Miners don't need permits.

Since we can stop miners from mining, they need to purchase permits from us if they want to mine in our systems. Certainly they don't need permits; they can go elsewhere or stop mining, but they do need permits if they don't want to leave.

The New Order doesn't care if miners are AFK.

You're nearly right. We do care if someone is AFK. We just don't care that they're ATK if they're mining. Look at it this way; a player in EVE can have several levels of bot-aspiration, or how much he wants to be a bot. Actually running a bot program is obviously 10, on a scale of 1 to 10. Being an AFK miner is a good 6; you're getting a computer to do tasks for you with no input from a human after a certain point. Being a miner of any sort is still at least a 4, since you're getting a computer to do tasks for you with no input from a human after a certain point, even if they're doing other stuff ingame.

The New Order wishes to wipe out bot-aspiration altogether. Towards that end, we'll target bots first, AFK miners second and other miners third. That doesn't mean we won't target AFK miners.

The New Order is only bumping miners for their precious ISK.

Seriously? 10,000,000 ISK per year per miner is does not make bumping a good ISK-making activity. The reason we ask for ISK as well as a public declaration of support is because miners have no morals or principles, so they'd obviously have no problem with lying about support for the Order. Surrendering 10 million ISK (ISK being the only purpose of a miner) is a decent indication that he truly supports what the Order is doing.

I don't agree with what you're doing.

*Shrug* Get over it. You can try to stop us if you want, or you can complain on the forums. Neither are going to work.

Khergit Deserters wrote:
So if a miner proves he's not AFK and not a bot by responding in Local, the New Order won't bump him? Or does he still have to pay the 100mil fee?

*10 million. See above.
Tiberious Thessalonia
True Slave Foundations
#122 - 2012-11-15 18:04:55 UTC
10mil, and they pay that regardless to be allowed to mine in a New Order controlled system. they can not pay it if they want but it guarantees they are going to get bumped if caught, or blown up.
Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#123 - 2012-11-15 18:06:19 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
Tiberious Thessalonia wrote:
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:
Remiel Pollard wrote:

AFK gaming IN GENERAL on ANYTHING is not gaming. If you're afk, then you're not playing. If you're not playing, then why are you here? Let's put aside the economical effects of afk ice mining with multiple accounts and characters for a second, and take a look at the basic premise of playing games - you're supposed to actually play them.


One may also enter a restaurant, eat an appetizer and decline the whole rest of the meal afterwards.
As long as he pays for the meal, no one has the right to tell him a iota.


No, but they have the ability. Welcome to EVE, where sometimes people will do mean things to you that you don't want them to do, and this is the selling point of the game.

Power is all that matters.


*puts on robes and dances like dude in an Alabama Baptist Church*

Preach it Tiberious!

I put on my robe and wizard's hat.

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat
Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
#124 - 2012-11-15 18:07:47 UTC
Darth Gustav wrote:

Sir, this is a game about competition.

If I disrupt your play in a way that potentially brings me gains in-game, I have out-gamed you.

If I taunt you with the possibility and you just give in ahead of time, that's gamesmanship.

Gamesmanship.



I'm sure this adds a bountiful plentitude, BILLIONS of ISK, into the bumper's wallets. BILLIONS!!! Roll

Give it up, as your argument has failed yet again.

"He has mounted his hind-legs, and blown crass vapidities through the bowel of his neck."  - Ambrose Bierce on Oscar Wilde's Lecture in San Francisco 1882
Darth Gustav
Sith Interstellar Tech Harvesting
#125 - 2012-11-15 18:08:48 UTC
Lord Zim wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:
Tiberious Thessalonia wrote:
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:
Remiel Pollard wrote:

AFK gaming IN GENERAL on ANYTHING is not gaming. If you're afk, then you're not playing. If you're not playing, then why are you here? Let's put aside the economical effects of afk ice mining with multiple accounts and characters for a second, and take a look at the basic premise of playing games - you're supposed to actually play them.


One may also enter a restaurant, eat an appetizer and decline the whole rest of the meal afterwards.
As long as he pays for the meal, no one has the right to tell him a iota.


No, but they have the ability. Welcome to EVE, where sometimes people will do mean things to you that you don't want them to do, and this is the selling point of the game.

Power is all that matters.


*puts on robes and dances like dude in an Alabama Baptist Church*

Preach it Tiberious!

I put on my robe and wizard's hat.

I so need to get me one of those hats! Big smile

He who trolls trolls best when he who is trolled trolls the troller. -Darth Gustav's Axiom
Darth Gustav
Sith Interstellar Tech Harvesting
#126 - 2012-11-15 18:09:36 UTC
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:
Darth Gustav wrote:

Sir, this is a game about competition.

If I disrupt your play in a way that potentially brings me gains in-game, I have out-gamed you.

If I taunt you with the possibility and you just give in ahead of time, that's gamesmanship.

Gamesmanship.



I'm sure this adds a bountiful plentitude, BILLIONS of ISK, into the bumper's wallets. BILLIONS!!! Roll

Give it up, as your argument has failed yet again.

You didn't even know what "gamesmanship" was, but you say my argument failed.

Bumping miners has the potential to earn them ISK from permits.

So you're wrong again. How's that feel?

He who trolls trolls best when he who is trolled trolls the troller. -Darth Gustav's Axiom
Kainotomiu Ronuken
koahisquad
#127 - 2012-11-15 18:10:28 UTC
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:
Darth Gustav wrote:

Sir, this is a game about competition.

If I disrupt your play in a way that potentially brings me gains in-game, I have out-gamed you.

If I taunt you with the possibility and you just give in ahead of time, that's gamesmanship.

Gamesmanship.



I'm sure this adds a bountiful plentitude, BILLIONS of ISK, into the bumper's wallets. BILLIONS!!! Roll

Give it up, as your argument has failed yet again.

Perhaps his original post would have been better like this:

Darth Gustav wrote:

Sir, this is a game about competition.

If I disrupt your play in a way that potentially brings me gains in-game, or brings you losses, I have out-gamed you.

If I taunt you with the possibility and you just give in ahead of time, that's gamesmanship.

Gamesmanship.
Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
#128 - 2012-11-15 18:13:13 UTC
Darth Gustav wrote:
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:
Darth Gustav wrote:

Sir, this is a game about competition.

If I disrupt your play in a way that potentially brings me gains in-game, I have out-gamed you.

If I taunt you with the possibility and you just give in ahead of time, that's gamesmanship.

Gamesmanship.



I'm sure this adds a bountiful plentitude, BILLIONS of ISK, into the bumper's wallets. BILLIONS!!! Roll

Give it up, as your argument has failed yet again.

You didn't even know what "gamesmanship" was, but you say my argument failed.

Bumping miners has the potential to earn them ISK from permits.

So you're wrong again. How's that feel?



The number of miner's who would even pay, with the trust that the behavior is guaranteed to stop, is going to be very very low.

Is that not one of the foundations of EVE Play ? TRUST NOBODY.

Your game was gamed already: by experience and history of behaviors. The concept that this would somehow actually work was broken long ago.

"He has mounted his hind-legs, and blown crass vapidities through the bowel of his neck."  - Ambrose Bierce on Oscar Wilde's Lecture in San Francisco 1882
Darth Gustav
Sith Interstellar Tech Harvesting
#129 - 2012-11-15 18:16:49 UTC
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:
Darth Gustav wrote:
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:
Darth Gustav wrote:

Sir, this is a game about competition.

If I disrupt your play in a way that potentially brings me gains in-game, I have out-gamed you.

If I taunt you with the possibility and you just give in ahead of time, that's gamesmanship.

Gamesmanship.



I'm sure this adds a bountiful plentitude, BILLIONS of ISK, into the bumper's wallets. BILLIONS!!! Roll

Give it up, as your argument has failed yet again.

You didn't even know what "gamesmanship" was, but you say my argument failed.

Bumping miners has the potential to earn them ISK from permits.

So you're wrong again. How's that feel?



The number of miner's who would even pay, with the trust that the behavior is guaranteed to stop, is going to be very very low.

Is that not one of the foundations of EVE Play ? TRUST NOBODY.

Your game was gamed already: by experience and history of behaviors. The concept that this would somehow actually work was broken long ago.

James 315 publishes regular financials to his investors.

Sadly, you are mistaken again.

It's ok though, all you have to do to end the streak is say, "I was wrong."

He who trolls trolls best when he who is trolled trolls the troller. -Darth Gustav's Axiom
Kenneth O'Hara
Sebiestor Tribe
#130 - 2012-11-15 18:16:57 UTC
Darth Gustav wrote:
Kenneth O'Hara wrote:
So I checked out the www.MinerBumping.com site... Wow. You guys are bullies. What's the matter? Did mommy not give you enough hugs growing up?

What you're doing is not dealing with a legitimate problem but harrassing players into buying permits which they don't need. You don't even care if they are AFK. You just want the isk form players without backbones buying "permits" It's extortion. From where I'm sitting, this whole bumping business is a front. Yet, in EVE, It's perfectly legal but still wrong. This "code" you speak of is a load of crap and frankly, you can shove it straight up your ***.

"The path of the righteous man is beset on all sides by the iniquities of the selfish and the tyranny of evil men. Blessed is he who in the name of charity and good will shepherds the weak through the valley of darkness, for he is truly his brother's keeper and the finder of lost children. And I will strike down upon thee with great vengeance and furious anger those who attempt to poison and destroy my brothers. And you will know my name is the Lord, ...when I lay my vengeance upon thee." ~Samuel L. Jackson, Pulp Fiction

Yet another "nonviolent" type putting his playstyle above others' in a bid for self-identified moral superiority.

Minerbumpers may have not gotten enough hugs. I guess that's not an unreasonable assumption.

But what could mommy have done to spur such intolerance for gamesmanship in high-sec miners, then?

It gives me the creeps just thinking about it. Roll

What's this non-violence you speak of? I never mentioned anything about non-violence or a non-violent mentality. Self-identified moral superiority? I'm no different than them. Enlightenment is when you come to the realization that there is no such thing as right and wrong or good and evil. There are only choices. I choose to obstruct mining bumbers choice of forcing people who can't make choices for themselves or even think for themselves to make what seems like the only choice they have while screwing them out of hard earned money. The miners parents didn't teach them to think for themselves.

Cowards can never be moral.
~Gandhi


My nonviolence does not admit of running away from danger and leaving dear ones unprotected. Between violence and cowardly flight, I can only prefer violence to cowardice. I can no more preach nonviolence to a coward than I can tempt a blind man to enjoy healthy scenes.
~Gandhi

Bring Saede Riordan back!! Never Forget! _"__Operation Godzilla Smacks Zeus"  ~__Graygor _
Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
#131 - 2012-11-15 18:18:28 UTC  |  Edited by: Krixtal Icefluxor
A Miner bumping another Miner to control a belt for some idiotic reason, does fall within the parameters of Gamesmanship by definition.

Mining and Bumping are completely separate ideas. It's like trying to play chess on a Monopoly board suddenly.

It breaks the game.

edit: OR makes the player quit. Then they all quit.

Then who do you bump ?

"He has mounted his hind-legs, and blown crass vapidities through the bowel of his neck."  - Ambrose Bierce on Oscar Wilde's Lecture in San Francisco 1882
Darth Gustav
Sith Interstellar Tech Harvesting
#132 - 2012-11-15 18:20:03 UTC
Kenneth O'Hara wrote:
Darth Gustav wrote:
Kenneth O'Hara wrote:
So I checked out the www.MinerBumping.com site... Wow. You guys are bullies. What's the matter? Did mommy not give you enough hugs growing up?

What you're doing is not dealing with a legitimate problem but harrassing players into buying permits which they don't need. You don't even care if they are AFK. You just want the isk form players without backbones buying "permits" It's extortion. From where I'm sitting, this whole bumping business is a front. Yet, in EVE, It's perfectly legal but still wrong. This "code" you speak of is a load of crap and frankly, you can shove it straight up your ***.

"The path of the righteous man is beset on all sides by the iniquities of the selfish and the tyranny of evil men. Blessed is he who in the name of charity and good will shepherds the weak through the valley of darkness, for he is truly his brother's keeper and the finder of lost children. And I will strike down upon thee with great vengeance and furious anger those who attempt to poison and destroy my brothers. And you will know my name is the Lord, ...when I lay my vengeance upon thee." ~Samuel L. Jackson, Pulp Fiction

Yet another "nonviolent" type putting his playstyle above others' in a bid for self-identified moral superiority.

Minerbumpers may have not gotten enough hugs. I guess that's not an unreasonable assumption.

But what could mommy have done to spur such intolerance for gamesmanship in high-sec miners, then?

It gives me the creeps just thinking about it. Roll

What's this non-violence you speak of? I never mentioned anything about non-violence or a non-violent mentality. Self-identified moral superiority? I'm no different than them. Enlightenment is when you come to the realization that there is no such thing as right and wrong or good and evil. There are only choices. I choose to obstruct mining bumbers choice of forcing people who can't make choices for themselves or even think for themselves to make what seems like the only choice they have while screwing them out of hard earned money. The miners parents didn't teach them to think for themselves.

Cowards can never be moral.
~Gandhi


My nonviolence does not admit of running away from danger and leaving dear ones unprotected. Between violence and cowardly flight, I can only prefer violence to cowardice. I can no more preach nonviolence to a coward than I can tempt a blind man to enjoy healthy scenes.
~Gandhi

I LOL'd.

Ghandi in space would be a pretty compelling sci-fi epic.

Somebody get on the horn to Hollywood! This nonviolent morality is really pretty exciting stuff!

He who trolls trolls best when he who is trolled trolls the troller. -Darth Gustav's Axiom
Kainotomiu Ronuken
koahisquad
#133 - 2012-11-15 18:20:30 UTC
Kenneth O'Hara wrote:
The miners parents didn't teach them to think for themselves.

Cowards can never be moral.
~Gandhi


My nonviolence does not admit of running away from danger and leaving dear ones unprotected. Between violence and cowardly flight, I can only prefer violence to cowardice. I can no more preach nonviolence to a coward than I can tempt a blind man to enjoy healthy scenes.
~Gandhi

The irony of how you tell us we can't think for ourselves and then crudely shoehorn quotes from people who were talking about completely different things into the situation.
Darth Gustav
Sith Interstellar Tech Harvesting
#134 - 2012-11-15 18:21:22 UTC
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:
A Miner bumping another Miner to control a belt for some idiotic reason, does fall within the parameters of Gamesmanship by definition.

Mining and Bumping are completely separate ideas. It's like trying to play chess on a Monopoly board suddenly.

It breaks the game.

edit: OR makes the player quit. Then they all quit.

Then who do you bump ?

You continue to ignore the potential gains from the miners' failed resolve yielding 10M ISK for a permit.

Game unbroken. Mining may continue as usual.

Why do you continue to ignore the possibility for financial gain and just imply this is broken?

Do you hate the sandbox?

He who trolls trolls best when he who is trolled trolls the troller. -Darth Gustav's Axiom
Khergit Deserters
Crom's Angels
#135 - 2012-11-15 18:21:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Khergit Deserters
Kainotomiu Ronuken wrote:

You're nearly right. We do care if someone is AFK. We just don't care that they're ATK if they're mining. Look at it this way; a player in EVE can have several levels of bot-aspiration, or how much he wants to be a bot. Actually running a bot program is obviously 10, on a scale of 1 to 10. Being an AFK miner is a good 6; you're getting a computer to do tasks for you with no input from a human after a certain point. Being a miner of any sort is still at least a 4, since you're getting a computer to do tasks for you with no input from a human after a certain point, even if they're doing other stuff ingame.

The New Order wishes to wipe out bot-aspiration altogether. Towards that end, we'll target bots first, AFK miners second and other miners third. That doesn't mean we won't target AFK miners.


You guys don't sincerely buy into this shtick, do you? Some sort of crusade to get people from stop getting computers to do tasks for them with no human input? Out to reform EVE gameplay? If you really wanted to do that, seems you'd take it up with CCP or your most sympathetic CSM.

This New Order code thing is just a B-movie implementation of The Mittani's half-heated anti-AFK mining ramblings from a year ago. Guys, they came from a Goon-- you weren't supposed to take them at face value and as true gospel.
Kainotomiu Ronuken
koahisquad
#136 - 2012-11-15 18:25:58 UTC
Khergit Deserters wrote:
Out to reform EVE gameplay? If you really wanted to do that, seems you'd take it up with CCP or your most sympathetic CSM.

Miners complain to CCP to change something they don't like. Other people do something themselves while having fun and extracting tears at the same time.
Kenneth O'Hara
Sebiestor Tribe
#137 - 2012-11-15 18:28:08 UTC  |  Edited by: Kenneth O'Hara
Kainotomiu Ronuken wrote:
Kenneth O'Hara wrote:
The miners parents didn't teach them to think for themselves.

Cowards can never be moral.
~Gandhi


My nonviolence does not admit of running away from danger and leaving dear ones unprotected. Between violence and cowardly flight, I can only prefer violence to cowardice. I can no more preach nonviolence to a coward than I can tempt a blind man to enjoy healthy scenes.
~Gandhi

The irony of how you tell us we can't think for ourselves and then crudely shoehorn quotes from people who were talking about completely different things into the situation.

And you prove my point, quoting one sentence from my post does not make my quotes all about the one sentence. Learn to look at the bigger picture and quit thinking so small minded.

Edit: why re-invent the wheel?

Bring Saede Riordan back!! Never Forget! _"__Operation Godzilla Smacks Zeus"  ~__Graygor _
Darth Gustav
Sith Interstellar Tech Harvesting
#138 - 2012-11-15 18:29:42 UTC
Khergit Deserters wrote:
Kainotomiu Ronuken wrote:

You're nearly right. We do care if someone is AFK. We just don't care that they're ATK if they're mining. Look at it this way; a player in EVE can have several levels of bot-aspiration, or how much he wants to be a bot. Actually running a bot program is obviously 10, on a scale of 1 to 10. Being an AFK miner is a good 6; you're getting a computer to do tasks for you with no input from a human after a certain point. Being a miner of any sort is still at least a 4, since you're getting a computer to do tasks for you with no input from a human after a certain point, even if they're doing other stuff ingame.

The New Order wishes to wipe out bot-aspiration altogether. Towards that end, we'll target bots first, AFK miners second and other miners third. That doesn't mean we won't target AFK miners.


You guys don't sincerely buy into this shtick, do you? Some sort of crusade to get people from stop getting computers to do tasks for them with no human input? Out to reform EVE gameplay? If you really wanted to do that, seems you'd take it up with CCP or your most sympathetic CSM.

This New Order code thing is just a B-movie implementation of The Mittani's half-heated anti-AFK mining ramblings from a year ago. Guys, they came from a Goon-- you weren't supposed to take them at face value and as true gospel.

This is the part where I remind you of the "RP" in MMORPG.

Whether or not they actually buy into it is utterly irrelevant.

There's profit to potentially be had so it's a legitimate playstyle.

What could be more simple than that?

He who trolls trolls best when he who is trolled trolls the troller. -Darth Gustav's Axiom
Darth Gustav
Sith Interstellar Tech Harvesting
#139 - 2012-11-15 18:30:21 UTC
Kenneth O'Hara wrote:
Kainotomiu Ronuken wrote:
Kenneth O'Hara wrote:
The miners parents didn't teach them to think for themselves.

Cowards can never be moral.
~Gandhi


My nonviolence does not admit of running away from danger and leaving dear ones unprotected. Between violence and cowardly flight, I can only prefer violence to cowardice. I can no more preach nonviolence to a coward than I can tempt a blind man to enjoy healthy scenes.
~Gandhi

The irony of how you tell us we can't think for ourselves and then crudely shoehorn quotes from people who were talking about completely different things into the situation.

And you prove my point, quoting one sentence from my post does not make my quotes all about the one sentence. Learn to look at the bigger picture and quit thinking so small minded.

Edit: why re-invent the wheel?

Unpossible. You didn't actually have a point that post was pretty much just all ranting.

He who trolls trolls best when he who is trolled trolls the troller. -Darth Gustav's Axiom
Kenneth O'Hara
Sebiestor Tribe
#140 - 2012-11-15 18:32:43 UTC  |  Edited by: Kenneth O'Hara
Darth Gustav wrote:
Khergit Deserters wrote:
Kainotomiu Ronuken wrote:

You're nearly right. We do care if someone is AFK. We just don't care that they're ATK if they're mining. Look at it this way; a player in EVE can have several levels of bot-aspiration, or how much he wants to be a bot. Actually running a bot program is obviously 10, on a scale of 1 to 10. Being an AFK miner is a good 6; you're getting a computer to do tasks for you with no input from a human after a certain point. Being a miner of any sort is still at least a 4, since you're getting a computer to do tasks for you with no input from a human after a certain point, even if they're doing other stuff ingame.

The New Order wishes to wipe out bot-aspiration altogether. Towards that end, we'll target bots first, AFK miners second and other miners third. That doesn't mean we won't target AFK miners.


You guys don't sincerely buy into this shtick, do you? Some sort of crusade to get people from stop getting computers to do tasks for them with no human input? Out to reform EVE gameplay? If you really wanted to do that, seems you'd take it up with CCP or your most sympathetic CSM.

This New Order code thing is just a B-movie implementation of The Mittani's half-heated anti-AFK mining ramblings from a year ago. Guys, they came from a Goon-- you weren't supposed to take them at face value and as true gospel.

This is the part where I remind you of the "RP" in MMORPG.

Whether or not they actually buy into it is utterly irrelevant.

There's profit to potentially be had so it's a legitimate playstyle.

What could be more simple than that?

We are not saying it isn't a legitimate playstyle. We just choose to oppose it.

Darth Gustav wrote:
Unpossible. You didn't actually have a point that post was pretty much just all ranting.


And everybody else's is not?

Bring Saede Riordan back!! Never Forget! _"__Operation Godzilla Smacks Zeus"  ~__Graygor _