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The Right to AFK Mine - The Dystopia of 2015 is coming

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Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
#181 - 2012-11-15 21:54:37 UTC
Kainotomiu Ronuken wrote:
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:


Erm...is not that the purpose of the Asteroid Belts ? Why don't you mine them yourself so the real Miners will have nothing to mine ?

Your logic is not logic.

No, it isn't. The ice fields do not have a purpose as defined by CCP. As defined by miners, an ice field should be a place for herds of peacefully grazing retrievers and mackinaws. As defined by me, it should be a place full of the noise of strife and conflict, as should the rest of EVE. I assume Bing feels the same way, and that's why he takes issue with the cow-Mackinaws.



This is a game defined by CCP and nobody else really.

Look how they react. And they eventually WILL react to the escalation of this idiotic 'strategy'.

Even saying "defined by ME" is such an horrifically egotistical way of thinking, I actually feel sorry for you and your upbringing.

"He has mounted his hind-legs, and blown crass vapidities through the bowel of his neck."  - Ambrose Bierce on Oscar Wilde's Lecture in San Francisco 1882
Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
#182 - 2012-11-15 21:57:46 UTC
Darth Gustav wrote:


Mining needs risk, Krixtal. .



Oh, it already had plenty of that.

Just look at my KM losses.

This adds nothing but stupidity and compounds the risks already inherent............. and a reason to LEAVE the game.

"He has mounted his hind-legs, and blown crass vapidities through the bowel of his neck."  - Ambrose Bierce on Oscar Wilde's Lecture in San Francisco 1882
Kainotomiu Ronuken
koahisquad
#183 - 2012-11-15 22:06:13 UTC
Kenneth O'Hara wrote:
Kainotomiu Ronuken wrote:
Kenneth O'Hara wrote:
Kainotomiu Ronuken wrote:
Kenneth O'Hara wrote:
These miner bumping guys got their "code" from these to 2 websites.

http://stephenlaw.blogspot.com/2011/06/pseudo-profundity-from-believing.html
and
http://www.elsewhere.org/pomo/

It's all just tricky wording.

edit:Warning: explicit language on websites.

Could you please post extracts that demonstrate your point? Both of those websites are filtered by my internet service.

Post-modern pseudo-profundity

Sadly, some corners of the academia are dominated by intellectuals whose writing amounts to little than pseudo-profundity. Strip away the academic jargon and pseudo-scientific references from their impressive-sounding pronouncements and you’ll find there’s precious little left.

Those thinkers often referred to as “post-modern” include more than their fair share of such jargon-fuelled poseurs. So easy is it, in fact, to produce convincing-looking post-modern gobbledegook that a wag called Andrew Bulhak constructed a computer programme that will write you your own “post-modern” essay, complete with references. For the Postmodern Essay Generator, go to:

http://www.elsewhere.org/pomo/


OK, so how is that related to the Code? You're saying that James used it to produce the Code, or that he copied from the text already there? Either seems a bit unlikely.

Pseudo-profundity is the art of sounding profound while talking tosh. Unlike the art of actually being profound, the art of sounding profound is not particularly difficult to master. As we’ll see, there are certain basic recipes that can produce fairly convincing results – good enough to convince others, and perhaps even yourself, that you have gained some sort of profound insight into the human condition.

Edit: You don't need to copy or generate from these sites. It's so simple to spew BS that you can do it on the fly and still sound like you know what you're talking about.

So, uh, you're basically saying that there's no connection at all between those websites and the Code other than a vaguely defined writing style?

OK.
Khergit Deserters
Crom's Angels
#184 - 2012-11-15 22:14:26 UTC  |  Edited by: Khergit Deserters
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:
Phosos Dimaloun wrote:
In the year 2012, after Torvins exotic post about the future, The Mittani himself started a new high sec group to work along side Miniluv. It was to help those newbies in need before they get sucked into the fold of AFK mining.


That choice was made long before they subscribed to the Game of EVE.


Nobody gets 'sucked' into that. It's something pre-existing within a personality with a reallly screwed up mindset.

Hmm, what's screwed up about it. Some people just like mining. It's not about getting isk while doing something else, and using those isk to fund their PVP or whatever. They just like mining, and spreadsheets, and m3/sec calculations, and all that. They might be the same kind of guys who make model railroads, tie trout flies, or make duck decoys.

Why would any reasonably adjusted person with even a moderate level self-esteem want to collect tears from that kind of guy?
Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
#185 - 2012-11-15 22:19:59 UTC  |  Edited by: Krixtal Icefluxor
Khergit Deserters wrote:
Krixtal Icefloxor wrote:

Nobody gets 'sucked' into that. It's something pre-existing within a personality with a reallly screwed up mindset.

Hmm, what's screwed up about it. Some people just like mining. It's not about getting isk while doing something else, and using those isk to fund their PVP or whatever. They just like mining, and spreadsheets, and m3/sec calculations, and all that. They might be the same kind of guys who make model railroads, tie trout flies, or make duck decoys.

Why would any reasonably adjusted person with even a moderate level self-esteem want to collect tears from that kind of guy?




It's the Way of History if you look into it not even too far.

edit: quotage was borked. And wanted to say I reacted to the reference to AFK Mining, not mining in general.

"He has mounted his hind-legs, and blown crass vapidities through the bowel of his neck."  - Ambrose Bierce on Oscar Wilde's Lecture in San Francisco 1882
Kenneth O'Hara
Sebiestor Tribe
#186 - 2012-11-15 22:29:09 UTC
Kainotomiu Ronuken wrote:
So, uh, you're basically saying that there's no connection at all between those websites and the Code other than a vaguely defined writing style? OK.

Ok, since you obviously can't pick up what I'm dropping all around here. The website is a full chapter from the book "Believing BS" by Stephen Law. This covers eveything from politics to cults. Essentially, it is a book on how to write BS. Now, to show some examples from your "code":

"There's no denying it, mankind can only reach its full potential through the creation of a civilization. As Saviour of Highsec, I am the leader of the civilizing forces. Highsec miners may say they come for the ice and ore, but I give them what they really need: Purpose, dignity, structure, order, guidance, leadership. They ask what I am "saving" them from. I save the miners from themselves[snip]." ~the code, paragraph 1

"If you want to achieve the status of a guru it helps to have some natural charisma and presentational skills. Sincerity, empathy, or at least the ability to fake them, can be useful. Props also help. Try wearing a loincloth, a fez, or, in a business setting, a particularly brash waistcoat. But even without the aid of such natural talents or paraphernalia, anyone can produce deep- and meaningful-sounding pronouncements if they are prepared to follow a few simple recipes". ~BB, Stephen Law

I can honestly see the writer of the "code" wearing a tall white hat that comes to a point in the front with gold trim.

"Without rules, there is no such thing as freedom. By enforcing a system of just laws, I give the miners liberation from their own worst instincts. And through this process, the miners can be molded into better people, the kind worthy of joining the new community of EVE. I'm no idealist to believe, firmly, in the integrity of the Code and the New Order of Highsec. It's no ideal to me: It is a living, working reality."~The Code, Paragraph 2

"State the obvious: To begin with, try pointing out the blindingly obvious. Only do it i-n-c-r-e-d-i-b-l-y s-l-o-w-l-y and with an air of superior wisdom. The technique works best if your pronouncements focus on one of life’s big themes, such as love, money and death. State the obvious in a sufficiently earnest way, perhaps following up with a pregnant pause, and you may find others begin to nod in agreement, perhaps murmering “Yes, how very true that is”."~BB, Stephen Law

Now this was just the first 2 paragraphs.

Bring Saede Riordan back!! Never Forget! _"__Operation Godzilla Smacks Zeus"  ~__Graygor _
Darth Gustav
Sith Interstellar Tech Harvesting
#187 - 2012-11-15 22:43:22 UTC
Kenneth O'Hara wrote:
Kainotomiu Ronuken wrote:
So, uh, you're basically saying that there's no connection at all between those websites and the Code other than a vaguely defined writing style? OK.

Ok, since you obviously can't pick up what I'm dropping all around here. The website is a full chapter from the book "Believing BS" by Stephen Law. This covers eveything from politics to cults. Essentially, it is a book on how to write BS. Now, to show some examples from your "code":

"There's no denying it, mankind can only reach its full potential through the creation of a civilization. As Saviour of Highsec, I am the leader of the civilizing forces. Highsec miners may say they come for the ice and ore, but I give them what they really need: Purpose, dignity, structure, order, guidance, leadership. They ask what I am "saving" them from. I save the miners from themselves[snip]." ~the code, paragraph 1

"If you want to achieve the status of a guru it helps to have some natural charisma and presentational skills. Sincerity, empathy, or at least the ability to fake them, can be useful. Props also help. Try wearing a loincloth, a fez, or, in a business setting, a particularly brash waistcoat. But even without the aid of such natural talents or paraphernalia, anyone can produce deep- and meaningful-sounding pronouncements if they are prepared to follow a few simple recipes". ~BB, Stephen Law

I can honestly see the writer of the "code" wearing a tall white hat that comes to a point in the front with gold trim.

"Without rules, there is no such thing as freedom. By enforcing a system of just laws, I give the miners liberation from their own worst instincts. And through this process, the miners can be molded into better people, the kind worthy of joining the new community of EVE. I'm no idealist to believe, firmly, in the integrity of the Code and the New Order of Highsec. It's no ideal to me: It is a living, working reality."~The Code, Paragraph 2

"State the obvious: To begin with, try pointing out the blindingly obvious. Only do it i-n-c-r-e-d-i-b-l-y s-l-o-w-l-y and with an air of superior wisdom. The technique works best if your pronouncements focus on one of life’s big themes, such as love, money and death. State the obvious in a sufficiently earnest way, perhaps following up with a pregnant pause, and you may find others begin to nod in agreement, perhaps murmering “Yes, how very true that is”."~BB, Stephen Law

Now this was just the first 2 paragraphs.


That's also all role-play. Trying to dissect it as anything else just won't work. Role-play. Gamesmanship.

If you dissect a porcine mammal following the instructions for dissecting a coelomate it's not going to come out right.

It's pseudo-intellectualism because it's an RP philosophy about a video game. Roll

He who trolls trolls best when he who is trolled trolls the troller. -Darth Gustav's Axiom
Kainotomiu Ronuken
koahisquad
#188 - 2012-11-15 22:47:26 UTC
Kenneth O'Hara wrote:
Ok, since you obviously can't pick up what I'm dropping all around here. The website is a full chapter from the book "Believing BS" by Stephen Law. This covers eveything from politics to cults. Essentially, it is a book on how to write BS. Now, to show some examples from your "code":

"There's no denying it, mankind can only reach its full potential through the creation of a civilization. As Saviour of Highsec, I am the leader of the civilizing forces. Highsec miners may say they come for the ice and ore, but I give them what they really need: Purpose, dignity, structure, order, guidance, leadership. They ask what I am "saving" them from. I save the miners from themselves[snip]." ~the code, paragraph 1

"If you want to achieve the status of a guru it helps to have some natural charisma and presentational skills. Sincerity, empathy, or at least the ability to fake them, can be useful. Props also help. Try wearing a loincloth, a fez, or, in a business setting, a particularly brash waistcoat. But even without the aid of such natural talents or paraphernalia, anyone can produce deep- and meaningful-sounding pronouncements if they are prepared to follow a few simple recipes". ~BB, Stephen Law

I can honestly see the writer of the "code" wearing a tall white hat that comes to a point in the front with gold trim.

"Without rules, there is no such thing as freedom. By enforcing a system of just laws, I give the miners liberation from their own worst instincts. And through this process, the miners can be molded into better people, the kind worthy of joining the new community of EVE. I'm no idealist to believe, firmly, in the integrity of the Code and the New Order of Highsec. It's no ideal to me: It is a living, working reality."~The Code, Paragraph 2

"State the obvious: To begin with, try pointing out the blindingly obvious. Only do it i-n-c-r-e-d-i-b-l-y s-l-o-w-l-y and with an air of superior wisdom. The technique works best if your pronouncements focus on one of life’s big themes, such as love, money and death. State the obvious in a sufficiently earnest way, perhaps following up with a pregnant pause, and you may find others begin to nod in agreement, perhaps murmering “Yes, how very true that is”."~BB, Stephen Law

Now this was just the first 2 paragraphs.

I'm still not sure what your point is here. It's called persuasive writing - or in this Law chappy's case, speaking. Just because someone wrote a book about it and called it something rude doesn't make it any less effective. And honestly, why would James not use effective techniques? Everyone does it.
Lance Rossiter
CHAINS Corp
#189 - 2012-11-15 22:51:13 UTC
It should be transparently obvious to anyone that "the code" is mostly folderol - it's self-serving nonsense by design, but it's glorious self-serving nonsense (with a serious and valid underlying point) and part of the genius of James 315 and the New Order is how easily they get their enemies buying into the fantasy that they've created - it's a perfect demonstration of the point they've trying to make about the mindset that they're seeking to cure. When you have people who oppose your actions quoting your own deliciously absurd rules and regulations against you, invoking The Questions Three, etc. it's a surefire sign of success and incoming entertainment. It's one of the reasons I enjoy reading minerbumping.com.
Kenneth O'Hara
Sebiestor Tribe
#190 - 2012-11-15 23:19:09 UTC
Darth Gustav wrote:


That's also all role-play. Trying to dissect it as anything else just won't work. Role-play. Gamesmanship.

If you dissect a porcine mammal following the instructions for dissecting a coelomate it's not going to come out right.

It's pseudo-intellectualism because it's an RP philosophy about a video game. Roll

RP or not, It's still pseudo-intellectualism regardless if it's a game. It's a cult and I RP as it's a cult and still call it out as zealot BS.

Lance Rossiter wrote:
It should be transparently obvious to anyone that "the code" is mostly folderol - it's self-serving nonsense by design, but it's glorious self-serving nonsense (with a serious and valid underlying point) and part of the genius of James 315 and the New Order is how easily they get their enemies buying into the fantasy that they've created - it's a perfect demonstration of the point they've trying to make about the mindset that they're seeking to cure. When you have people who oppose your actions quoting your own deliciously absurd rules and regulations against you, invoking The Questions Three, etc. it's a surefire sign of success and incoming entertainment. It's one of the reasons I enjoy reading minerbumping.com.


Hear thee miners!!! Have you accepted James 315 as you're personal Lord and saviour?!!! Repent of your sinful AFK'ing ways and thou shalt be saved!!! Here, drink this kool-aid! Pfft... religious zealots and the morons that follow.

(All religious mockery is an act of RPing. Any reference to real religions past or present are purely coincidental)

Bring Saede Riordan back!! Never Forget! _"__Operation Godzilla Smacks Zeus"  ~__Graygor _
Darth Gustav
Sith Interstellar Tech Harvesting
#191 - 2012-11-15 23:21:31 UTC
Kenneth O'Hara wrote:
Darth Gustav wrote:


That's also all role-play. Trying to dissect it as anything else just won't work. Role-play. Gamesmanship.

If you dissect a porcine mammal following the instructions for dissecting a coelomate it's not going to come out right.

It's pseudo-intellectualism because it's an RP philosophy about a video game. Roll

RP or not, It's still pseudo-intellectualism regardless if it's a game. It's a cult and I RP as it's a cult and still call it out as zealot BS.

Lance Rossiter wrote:
It should be transparently obvious to anyone that "the code" is mostly folderol - it's self-serving nonsense by design, but it's glorious self-serving nonsense (with a serious and valid underlying point) and part of the genius of James 315 and the New Order is how easily they get their enemies buying into the fantasy that they've created - it's a perfect demonstration of the point they've trying to make about the mindset that they're seeking to cure. When you have people who oppose your actions quoting your own deliciously absurd rules and regulations against you, invoking The Questions Three, etc. it's a surefire sign of success and incoming entertainment. It's one of the reasons I enjoy reading minerbumping.com.


Hear thee miners!!! Have you accepted James 315 as you're personal Lord and saviour?!!! Repent of your sinful AFK'ing ways and thou shalt be saved!!! Here, drink this kool-aid! Pfft... religious zealots and the morons that follow.

(All religious mockery is an act of RPing. Any reference to real religions past or present are purely coincidental)

Why are you trying to interfere with the playstyle of people who want to play zealots in a dystopian spaceship violence game, though?

I still don't see why this particular complaint has any validity in this context.

Maybe if this were My Little Pony Online I could see that viewpoint. But not here.

He who trolls trolls best when he who is trolled trolls the troller. -Darth Gustav's Axiom
Khergit Deserters
Crom's Angels
#192 - 2012-11-15 23:35:32 UTC
Darth Gustav wrote:
Why are you trying to interfere with the playstyle of people who want to play zealots in a dystopian spaceship violence game, though?

I still don't see why this particular complaint has any validity in this context.

Maybe if this were My Little Pony Online I could see that viewpoint. But not here.

Uh oh. Wait, isn't that the supposed 'carebear argument'? 'Why are trying to interfere with my playstyle?' It goes both ways I guess.

But bottom line is a carebear's 15 bucks a month is as good as a griefers 15 bucks a month. Actually, the bear's 15 bucks is probably more valuable, business-wise. Because a high sec miner might be a newbie, who might- if he enjoys his first months in EVE- go on to becoming a long-term subscriber.
Darth Gustav
Sith Interstellar Tech Harvesting
#193 - 2012-11-15 23:38:00 UTC
Khergit Deserters wrote:
Darth Gustav wrote:
Why are you trying to interfere with the playstyle of people who want to play zealots in a dystopian spaceship violence game, though?

I still don't see why this particular complaint has any validity in this context.

Maybe if this were My Little Pony Online I could see that viewpoint. But not here.

Uh oh. Wait, isn't that the supposed 'carebear argument'? 'Why are trying to interfere with my playstyle?' It goes both ways I guess.

But bottom line is a carebear's 15 bucks a month is as good as a griefers 15 bucks a month. Actually, the bear's 15 bucks is probably more valuable, business-wise. Because a high sec miner might be a newbie, who might- if he enjoys his first months in EVE- go on to becoming a long-term subscriber.

When enough newbies take this approach what will the value of mining as a profession be without any risk whatsoever?

Even to yield?

Mining AFK isn't a right. This is laughable.

He who trolls trolls best when he who is trolled trolls the troller. -Darth Gustav's Axiom
ISD Suvetar
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
ISD Alliance
#194 - 2012-11-16 00:47:36 UTC  |  Edited by: ISD Suvetar
Actually, no - this will stay locked.

It's been abandoned by the OP and has descended in to quite frankly a bad place™.

Forum rules wrote:

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Thread locked.

[b]ISD Suvetar Captain/Commando Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs) Interstellar Services Department[/b]
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