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Our People

Author
Gussarde en Welle
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#21 - 2012-11-15 02:41:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Gussarde en Welle
Anslo wrote:
Pieter Tuulinen wrote:
Not that I'm pro-Slavery myself, but don't you think that you identifying her as Minmatar when she self-identifies as Amarr / Ammatar is part of the problem here?


So? I think it's a legitimate question. I'm not trying to diss you or anything, but by blood she's a Minmatar. So, I'm wondering what Republic Minmatar think when they see her and see how she talks, or how she compares POW's to Slaves. Made sense to me.


Anslo, I have to stop you here, the Matari are a race but they identify their bloodline by the tribal reference. So technically she's Ammatar. The Minmatar and Ammatar have serious divides along cultural lines.
Katran Luftschreck
Royal Ammatar Engineering Corps
#22 - 2012-11-15 02:42:39 UTC  |  Edited by: Katran Luftschreck
Anslo wrote:
What do other Minmatar say about you? Just curious.


That's simple. You can see... oh wait, I forgot the surgeons had it removed. Well, you can still sort of see the scar on my back left shoulder where they branded "Race Traitor" into my skin with a hot iron.

It's not hard to understand, really. If you share a genome with one of their precious tribes then as far as they're concerned you're property of that tribe. They own you. You have to do whatever their tribal elders say. Their word for this is "Freedom."

If in "reclaiming" that property (ironic choice of word is intentional) they have to send in warships & marines to your home planet and abduct you, well that's all part of the whole "freedom" process. Where you grew up, your home, your family, your friends, your loved ones, your job, your beliefs, your Faith - all completely irrelevant & meaningless. You belong to the tribe and that's final. You can come along willingly or with a bag over your head. Ironic definition of "liberation" is also intentional.

Once inside you will experience freedom, which is defined as "whatever the tribal leadership tells you to do." You will also be required to completely renounce your old home, family, friends, loved ones, job, beliefs and Faith to make room for your new "life" in the Republic and the ideology of the Republic. What that new life entails can vary. For someone who has the sense to play along with this charade until they get a chance to steal a ship and escape back home, you may end up conscripted into their military. Those who refuse to follow along are subject to an ever increasing level of punishments until they either their will breaks - or they do. For those who chose to freely practice their Amarrian Faith, for instance, freedom means chain-gangs and work camps. For others it's branding. For the most defiant... well, like I said, vitoxin may be slowly falling out of fashion in Amarr space but that doesn't mean it doesn't lack for buyers elsewhere. Though that's generally reserved only for those still deemed valuable and, to be fair, not done in the inner regions where the press comes snooping around too often. But if you're unfit for fighting or labor they usually just shoot the person in question. That's what happened to my old physics professor, although they didn't shoot him - they just stabbed him to death instead. I suppose that's the true meaning behind their chant of "Freedom or Death."

Of course if you're an convicted serial rapist with a penchant for strangulation who was enslaved & put to work in a factory then I suppose being liberated by Matari "freedom fighters" is a wonderful thing to have happen to you. Who knows? Maybe they'll put you in command of one of those marine detachments they send to "liberate" Matari women from the horrific confines of university life. It's not just a new lease on life, it's a license to party! Woo hoo!

Frankly I'm all for setting free all of the worst-case vitoxin candidates. Violent offenders, the criminally insane, and the just plain hopeless brutes. I say by all means let them go & let the Republic deal with them instead. They'd fit in better, that's for sure. If they can't serve in Heaven then let them rule in Hell.

http://youtu.be/t0q2F8NsYQ0

Gussarde en Welle
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#23 - 2012-11-15 02:46:12 UTC
Katran Luftschreck wrote:

That's what happened to my old physics professor, although they didn't shoot him - they just stabbed him to death instead.


Wait: what? What planet was this on?
Natalcya Katla
Astropolitan Front
#24 - 2012-11-15 03:37:21 UTC
Katran Luftschreck wrote:
That's simple. You can see... oh wait, I forgot the surgeons had it removed. Well, you can still sort of see the scar on my back left shoulder where they branded "Race Traitor" into my skin with a hot iron.

Race is never a concept deserving of loyalty. You have my sympathies, Captain.
Katran Luftschreck
Royal Ammatar Engineering Corps
#25 - 2012-11-15 04:50:56 UTC
Gussarde en Welle wrote:
Wait: what? What planet was this on?


Jarizza V.

http://youtu.be/t0q2F8NsYQ0

Silas Vitalia
Doomheim
#26 - 2012-11-15 06:09:26 UTC
So if Devonshire the puppet of Luftschrek, or is it the other way around?


The strings are so similar.

Sabik now, Sabik forever

Ava Starfire
Khushakor Clan
#27 - 2012-11-15 12:43:06 UTC
Katran Luftschreck wrote:
Anslo wrote:
What do other Minmatar say about you? Just curious.
semicoherent ramblings


Do you really want to get started in a "what they did wrong to us/what we did wrong to them" argument?

Also, had it been me, I wouldnt have carved "Race traitor" into your back. I would have carved it into your throat.

Have a nice day.

"There is no strength in numbers; have no such misconception." -Jayka Vofur, "Warfare in the North"

Gussarde en Welle
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#28 - 2012-11-15 22:37:51 UTC
Ava Starfire wrote:
Katran Luftschreck wrote:
Anslo wrote:
What do other Minmatar say about you? Just curious.
semicoherent ramblings


Do you really want to get started in a "what they did wrong to us/what we did wrong to them" argument?

Also, had it been me, I wouldnt have carved "Race traitor" into your back. I would have carved it into your throat.

Have a nice day.


With a carving knife or something more subtle?
Gottii
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#29 - 2012-11-16 01:50:10 UTC
It never fails to amaze me that the Amarrians claim to protect us from the dangers inherent in freedom, choice and life, then ask to be for praised for it.

Katran Luftschreck
Royal Ammatar Engineering Corps
#30 - 2012-11-16 18:18:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Katran Luftschreck
Ava Starfire wrote:
Hate


As if anyone expects anything better from a bloodthirsty savage?

Silas Vitalia wrote:
So if Devonshire the puppet of Luftschrek, or is it the other way around?

The strings are so similar.


If by "strings" you mean genetics, then yes. I'm her niece. "Luftschreck" is more of a nickname, something I put on the forged papers when I was escaping from the captivity of the Republic.

http://youtu.be/t0q2F8NsYQ0

Ava Starfire
Khushakor Clan
#31 - 2012-11-16 18:26:21 UTC
Gussarde en Welle wrote:
Ava Starfire wrote:
Katran Luftschreck wrote:
Anslo wrote:
What do other Minmatar say about you? Just curious.
semicoherent ramblings


Do you really want to get started in a "what they did wrong to us/what we did wrong to them" argument?

Also, had it been me, I wouldnt have carved "Race traitor" into your back. I would have carved it into your throat.

Have a nice day.


With a carving knife or something more subtle?


A piece of wire, a broken bottle, a pointy stick... I'm Sebiestor. We're nothing if not very, very creative.

"There is no strength in numbers; have no such misconception." -Jayka Vofur, "Warfare in the North"

Anslo
Scope Works
#32 - 2012-11-16 18:43:45 UTC
Ava Starfire wrote:
A piece of wire, a broken bottle, a pointy stick... I'm Sebiestor. We're nothing if not very, very creative.

Confirming Ava's creativity in all things...though scary it may be.

(Please don't hurt me Ava).

[center]-_For the Proveldtariat_/-[/center]

Katran Luftschreck
Royal Ammatar Engineering Corps
#33 - 2012-11-16 20:07:23 UTC
I do look back with one fond memory during my captivity as a slave to the Republic (other than killing that sexist pig of an instructor during my escape)... that memory being the scientific aptitude tests they made me take along side the hopeful natives. It was comic - I could have taught the stuff they wanted me to learn. No wonder they're still using slug throwers - which I might add is a highly highly irresponsible weapon for space combat.

I took all of one science class while there, and for all of one day. I figured maybe if I volunteered for a Republic course in genetics then maybe I could figure out where they got off claiming that I was actually a part of their "tribe." The Republic's views on genealogy were... enlightening, if not exactly educational. After that I asked to be put on ship maintenance instead. That actually was educational - every day I learned new ways on how to make something as beautiful as a spaceship look like a piece of pipe that got barfed out of a kitchen garbage disposal.

Yet all their efforts to "deprogram" me only silently reinforced my convictions. Had my distant ancestors never been taken centuries ago, this is where I'd be and I'd be no better than the rest of these barbarians. It would be like being lobotomized, and having that empty space replaced with nothing but hate. To never know true beauty or God's love... I could almost pity them, if they weren't so hell bent on destroying everything I believed in and everyone I cared about.

I was tempted, many times, to go back - armed to teeth - and just start firing into the first helpless Republic transport that I could find, or raze the first unprotected city I saw to the ground just for laughs. But then I realized that if I did so... I'd be no better than them. If I fell into that kind of pattern of mindless violence then all these centuries of lifting my family up from barbarism would have been for nothing.

I believe that, in the end, these horrors that I experienced were all part of God's plan - to show me first hand the things I would never have believed otherwise. To remove any trace of doubt in my soul over whether or not I was on the right path. A test of my Faith, a glimpse into hell and the demons within. To be back home with my family and friends, to be truly free... that was God's gift to me.

And eventually, I learned to sleep again.

Pax Amarria.

http://youtu.be/t0q2F8NsYQ0

Lady Katherine Devonshire
Royal Ammatar Engineering Corps
#34 - 2012-11-20 13:07:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Lady Katherine Devonshire
Ahem, if I may return to the subject...

The classic propaganda image broadcast outside the Empire is, well, what you'd expect from propaganda. Gross exaggerations, half-truths and very often outright lies. Now every good myth has some basis in reality, and I would not be so dishonest as to say that there were never times in the distant past that were indeed as ugly & often cruel as the propagandists would like you to believe. But that, as with most things in this issue, was the distant past. While I cannot speak for all holders, I can speak for myself and those we deal with it.

In modern times, the image of the hapless serf being worked to death in some field or mineshaft is patently laughable. If you've been keeping up on current events, there has been a significant movement towards releasing our charges for many years now. Again, it would be dishonest to claim purely moral reasons to this - although this varies from holder to holder, of course. Ever since our alliance with the Caldari State the more enlightened amogst the Amarr have taken full advantage of this opportunity to learn new things. As expected, one of the first things we learned from them (and continue to learn every day) lays in the realm of finance. Simply put, slaves are a waste of money.

Consider it from this financial perspective: They are like children. They must be housed, fed, clothed, educated, taken to doctors when they get sick, etc. The difference is that eventually children grow up and take these burdens onto themselves. Not so with slaves, unless we chose to release them. As anyone who has raised children knows, this is quite taxing, both financially and mentally. Even those Amarrians born into wealth still have to deal with all the daily stresses of managing however many servants their estate claims in it's possession.

For some holders that is reason enough to get rid of their assets and switch to the more "equitable" model of releasing them from bondage and simply rehiring them as free workers (not that this really improves their lot in life, but autonomy does ease the financial burdens of having to support them). For others with a more moral stance, this simply adds more motivation to the mix. The end result, however, is the same: The image of thousands of souls sweating before a whip is an archaic concept, and if you can still find it anywhere it will only be at the bottom-most rungs of Amarrian holder society.

Why the bottom? And now we get to my point: Ever since our Caldari friends pointed out the financial folly of having vast hordes of slaves, we holders, in turn, have been "trimming the fat" ever since then. Which brings me to this intertwining branch known as "prestige."

The first thing one most remember when dealing with nobility anywhere is that prestige is a very important thing to them, especially to the Amarr, being that we are the most traditional. There is no longer any prestige to be gained in having vast numbers of mindless peons doing menial labor. Because there is no prestige to be found in this the appeal of it has waned with it - this is in addition to the economic reasons mentioned previously. The modern, cultured holder takes pride in the quality of their servants, not the quantity. You can see this same behavior in all cultures, mind you: The Gallente senator with half a dozen "personal assistants," the Caldari billionaire with a private butler & chauffere, and even the Minmatar warlord with his private harem & loyal thugs at his side. People in power have servants, end of story, and all of them take pride in those servants. Keeping a slave down has become a mark of shame. A holder is expected to lavish rewards upon her slaves - the best education, the best clothes, etc. When you're hosting or attending a party the quality of your servants directly reflects upon the holder. Dim-witted brutes are not desired (except by the most deviant). Well mannered, well cultured, well educated, and well kept slaves are how one holds prestige in today's nobility.

And for those still decrying their servitude, let me finish with a reminder: The highest prestige comes from a slave who has earned their release. To take one who's ancestors wallowed in the mud like pigs and, over as much time is needed, raise them up into educated, cultured, and Faithful people who are worthy of finally standing by our sides as Amarrians. That is the greatest prestige a holder can boast of: To have brought a soul from the darkness of ignorance and into the Light of God.

Yes, there are still those stubborn and falling holders who actual employ large numbers for menial labor. You may be surprised to find that they don't wield many more friends here than they do with the Minmatar themselves. Not attempting to elevate one's slaves, or worse - abusing them - can lead a noble to become ostracized at the speed of gossip (which is, last I checked, approximately twenty seven times the speed of light). And, again to be honest, very few self-respecting Amarrians will come to the aid of these... dinosaurs... when the "freedom fighters" come knocking on their doors. To not even try to lift up their souls is to deny them the chance to embrace God. What greater sin could there be amongst the Amarr?

But as to the vast majority of those servants who remain - those who are raised as Amarrians, with our ways, culture and Faith, and the ideals of our civilization from birth... how can anyone honestly say that they are not our people? Identity is not created in the blood, but rather within the heart that pumps it. The Amarr are not just one but many people who have all come to be united in Faith under the eyes of our loving God.
Silas Vitalia
Doomheim
#35 - 2012-11-20 14:23:32 UTC
Idiot.


Sabik now, Sabik forever

Ssakaa
Animatar Foundation
#36 - 2012-11-30 13:29:49 UTC
Katran Luftschreck wrote:
A tirade



Katran Luftschreck, speaking of filthy junkheap stations as you do, elsewhere, would you personally not feel more content in Sarum's back-yard closer to the comfort blanket of Amarr customs (and their God) and as far away as you physically can be from your 'tormentors' instead of wallowing in the nefantar cess-pool?

Rens is only a bunny hop away, now, isn't it. Seems like an incongruent place to settle down in, does Derelik, on your Corp's part.





"Modern Life is Rubbish"

von Khan
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#37 - 2012-11-30 17:57:50 UTC  |  Edited by: von Khan
Reading this post, its impossible not to notice the difference in caliber between debaters.. well done sisters my faith is uplifted by your testimonies. All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident.

The illusion of freedom will continue as long as it's profitable to continue the illusion. At the point where the illusion becomes too expensive to maintain, they will just take down the scenery, they will pull back the curtains, they will move the tables and chairs out of the way and you will see the brick wall at the back of the theater.

von Khan

Thgil Goldcore
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#38 - 2012-11-30 18:00:21 UTC
I would advise avoiding lengthy debates with people who have openly stated they will kill you and scatter your people to the four winds for their own amusement Lady Devonshire. They will try to setup traps of words to catch you in simply so they can say they are JUST in savagely burning your lands and slaughtering your family. I have no doubt some of them even honestly believe they are just... But that is a larger conversation that they prefer to have with auto-cannons.

It does make me glad though to see more and more holders take pride in taking utmost care of there servants and pouring due time and effort into their spiritual, mental, and physical well-being. Having recently taken a tour of the great Empire I do find this to be the norm.
Lady Katherine Devonshire
Royal Ammatar Engineering Corps
#39 - 2012-12-01 16:49:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Lady Katherine Devonshire
Thgil Goldcore wrote:
It does make me glad though to see more and more holders take pride in taking utmost care of there servants and pouring due time and effort into their spiritual, mental, and physical well-being. Having recently taken a tour of the great Empire I do find this to be the norm.


Indeed, which brings me to two other members of our staff whom I would like to talk about. Their names are Clark and Renee Jobris.

Mr.Jaboris is our head of security on our estates. He comes from a long line of Kamerias who we took in three generations ago. Our family then took a note from Caldari history and thus his family was instructed in the “Code of Bushido” rather than the more traditional training. Embracing this philosophy he, as his father before him, considers himself to be “samurai” (literal translation: “One who serves”) in the protection of our household. Now one would think that the other guards, being free citizens, would have a problem taking orders from someone considered to be a slave. In truth, there were a few who took issue with it… and those few are no longer in our employment. The rest quickly fell in line.

I should be noted that Mr.Jaboris was actually offered to be released from his bondage before and flat out refused, saying that “Ronin” have no honor. You see, according to his code, if he is without a master (or in this case, mistress) then he has no purpose in life. The idea of being released from our service simply terrifies him – he would consider it a grave insult and actually threatened to take his own life if we did so. Frankly, we’re glad to have him. His father, Kanto, saved my life once (he too was offered his freedom because of it, and he too refused for the same reasons), which is how we came to meet Renee… the girl who would someday become Clark’s wife.

Shortly after the incident in which my niece was kidnapped by terrorists, a group calling itself “The Bloody Hands of Matar” launched an attack on our estate. We were giving a tour of the gardens to a group of visiting schoolchildren when our sensor alarms went off. One of the children was carrying explosives. In a display of both heroism and chivalry, Kanto managed to resolve the situation without inflicting anything more than a broken arm on the young girl.

After the furor died down we found out the rest of the story. Her name was Renee, she was eleven years old and had been recruited at a youth rally, indoctrinated by the group and turned a suicide bomber. As appalling as this was, no one was surprised. During her treatment, our household doctor was not surprised to find that she had been drugged. A quick genome map showed that she probably about one quarter Amarrian, and she revealed that this was why she was chosen for the task (and why we gave her the test in the first place): She said she had “dirty blood” and thus could only regain redemption through a “glorious death” (read: killing as many Ammatar civilians as possible in a suicide attack). Later, after Katran has escaped from her captors, we would find that such atrocious race-based ideologies were quite common there.

What was surprising was her intelligence, or rather lack thereof. The drugs did not help but it was obvious that she had simply been rather slow to begin with. Fortunately it wasn’t genetic – our doctor suspects it was most likely caused simple neglect & malnutrition as an infant that kept her mind from properly developing. I suppose that this, along with her naïveté, was why she was chosen for the job. Once her body & mind had been healed the debate was what to do with her. It was obvious that she would be considered a terrorist but do to her age would end up enslaved rather than simply executed, and this is exactly what happened. What surprised the magistrate was that I made the first immediate buyout bid for her possession. We then sent her off to a proper school that was able equipped to deal with people of her type of mental handicap. Although she is now able to read & write she still remains the only slave in our estate that could be considered “unskilled labor” (she’s a maid). We were surprised & delighted when, years later, her friendship with another young person in our estate named Clark eventually blossomed into love & they were married with full ceremonies the day after Clark took over his father’s active duty as our security chief.

For the record, when they get around to having any children then those children will be given the choice of being released from servitude upon their 20th birthdays should they so desire it. The question one must ask is: Will they desire it? That remains to be seen.
Thgil Goldcore
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#40 - 2012-12-01 22:03:01 UTC
Clearly, as I do, you have a close connection with your slaves. While those in my service around my administration I am able to get family like connection to, being a holder of over 500,000 on my families plantation does make knowing each one on an individual basis impossible. Still, the vast majority have proven themselves more than honorable and worthy of the Empire.

Although, Lady Devonshire, you and I both know it would be a lie to say that all holder relationships are so... well... good put simply. I actively encourage any laws for slave rights and standards of care. Slave abuse is a serious offense in my mind and should be given more attention than it is. Not only are you abusing God's gift to you but seriously setting back the goal of holdership which is to ultimately teach,.. Granted with a full-scale war on our hands, I cannot imagine that the issue could be dealt with at the time.
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