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Making missions more challenging and reducing the isk faucet

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Harland White
Adventurer's Guild
#121 - 2012-11-12 12:48:02 UTC
More null/low sec dwellers trying to get high-sec nerfed. They even have some of their friends coming up in here posting stuff like "herp derp I run missions on my alt because I make more isk doing that than my null sec crap". Sure...sure.

I think we need to start petitioning CCP to screw up null and low sec. Those plexes in null definitely need nerfing for sure, as well as mining and all other possible null sec "isk faucets". Let's get on this, guys.

By their fruit you will recognize them.
Asuri Kinnes
Perkone
Caldari State
#122 - 2012-11-12 13:18:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Asuri Kinnes
Nexus Day wrote:
So let me get this straight. . . . .

We will be left with more hardcore players that don't pay a sub to play as a percentage.

I have no idea why the community wouldn't want this and why CCP shouldn't consider this.

I had to comment on this, I *HATE* it when this statement is made. What do you mean "don't pay a sub"?

Everyone pays a sub, even people who plex their accounts.

(Pro-Hint: PLEX don't generate out of thin air.)

Zoe Issier wrote:
Now what would be the point of me searching id like to the data he/she was spewing as fact
not some random dudes interpatation of numbers slaped together but rather a link to a official up to date study afta all there are a number of studys right?

Thread in question:
http://community.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1272040
CCP Diagoras tweet about income/Incursion income:
https://twitter.com/CCP_Diagoras/status/165168584362967040

Bob is the god of Wormholes.

That's all you need to know.
Dar Manic
Dirt Road Services
#123 - 2012-11-12 13:49:30 UTC
Elvis Fett wrote:
Jace Errata wrote:
Worth remembering that while missions still give a fair amount of ISK, that ISK now buys less. I get ~100k-~300k ISK per L3 mission; an empty Blackbird hull costs 4m ISK. Good fittings cost more, and of course missions are tedious enough that it's hard to make yourself do the 20 in a row you need for the hull alone.

In short, missions need to be interesting before you should consider nerfing them. If they're nerfed and boring, nobody will run them.


See the OP is really not suggesting nerfing missions, if anything it may be a bit of a buff. Jace you hit the nail on the head, your isk buys less than it did 24 or even 12 months ago, and that is due to inflation. Every time somebody runs a mission they are rewarded with fresh isk injected into the economy. This means that every single time somebody besides you runs a mission the isk you have in your wallet becomes worth less. As more isk comes into the game, the buying power of the isk you have drops.

If missions rewards were changed to not be worth less, but to be paid out with mostly items as opposed to new isk, it would benefit the mission runner (and every one else in New Eden). You would be getting the same amount of isk (after selling LP items), but your isk would have much better purchasing power allowing you to by more ships for the same amount of isk.


Although I do think this is a pretty good idea, IMO wormholes are a more pressing matter. They are massive massive isk faucets, and due to the sheer number of wormholes there are pretty risk free. There is no competition with WHs because there are so many, pretty much every pilot in EVE could have their own solo C5. Half the amount of wormholes and make those WH corps fight for their isk faucets.


LOL. WH risk free? Tell that to the gangs which try to catch me every time I go into a WH. You make plenty of isk but it's not 'pretty risk free'.

No competition? Tell that to the 2-3 others which usually show up while I'm in the WH. If only I could run them by myself with no others around.

Own solo c5? You know you can't solo C5, right?

Your WH discussion is complete and utter hyperbole. Exaggerations made up to try to prove your incorrect point. Let's just let this discussion stay on missions. I suspect your WH experiences are tales told to you by others in your corporation who have never been in WH themselves...

I just don't understand null sec players.

**Please note: **Anytime I use the phrase PvP in a post, I'm talking about shooting/combat/killing things/blowing things up. Thank you.
Dar Manic
Dirt Road Services
#124 - 2012-11-12 13:53:37 UTC
Harland White wrote:
More null/low sec dwellers trying to get high-sec nerfed. They even have some of their friends coming up in here posting stuff like "herp derp I run missions on my alt because I make more isk doing that than my null sec crap". Sure...sure.

I think we need to start petitioning CCP to screw up null and low sec. Those plexes in null definitely need nerfing for sure, as well as mining and all other possible null sec "isk faucets". Let's get on this, guys.


Probably some accuracy in that statement. If Hi-sec is such a faucet with no risk, wouldn't the guys complaining go to where the easy isk is? Surely they like easy isk? ;)

I prefer CCP leave it the f*ck alone (LITFA). If they make any changes, perhaps a very small reduction in isk but not much. Since there are supposedly so many mission runners, a small change goes a long, long way.

I don't think we need to go the other way and do any harm to null/low sex. Again, I prefer LITFA. Some of the fubar of null is a result of the actions of the players. Let them fix what they messed up...

I just don't understand null sec players.

**Please note: **Anytime I use the phrase PvP in a post, I'm talking about shooting/combat/killing things/blowing things up. Thank you.
Andski
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#125 - 2012-11-12 13:57:26 UTC
Dar Manic wrote:
Probably some accuracy in that statement. If Hi-sec is such a faucet with no risk, wouldn't the guys complaining go to where the easy isk is? Surely they like easy isk? ;)


Are you serious? Does hisec look like a ghost town right now?

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar
Dar Manic
Dirt Road Services
#126 - 2012-11-12 17:28:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Dar Manic
Andski wrote:
Dar Manic wrote:
Probably some accuracy in that statement. If Hi-sec is such a faucet with no risk, wouldn't the guys complaining go to where the easy isk is? Surely they like easy isk? ;)


Are you serious? Does hisec look like a ghost town right now?


Just another nerf hi-sec thread in disguise. That is what was underlined and bolded.

Never said hi-sec wasn't packed. I was suggesting they adapt. Since you can't make any isk in null sec, might as well go to hi-sec where the isk is put into your wallet for you. ;)

I just don't understand null sec players.

**Please note: **Anytime I use the phrase PvP in a post, I'm talking about shooting/combat/killing things/blowing things up. Thank you.
Sointu Luonnotar
Doomheim
#127 - 2012-11-12 18:30:37 UTC
Tippia wrote:
The many many remaining ISK faucets. Even in the best (worst?) case scenario where missions inject 600bn, the total elimination of that ISK injection would still leave a net influx of 400bn a day.


You mean; Remaining ISK faucets not in high sec? Why don't we remove some ISK faucets from null and WH for a change.
Tarryn Nightstorm
Hellstar Towing and Recovery
#128 - 2012-11-12 19:49:51 UTC  |  Edited by: Tarryn Nightstorm
Tippia wrote:
Tarryn Nightstorm wrote:
It's strongly implied in how he says it.
I don't see it. I see him mentioning the ISK faucet from w-space as a better target for adjustment than mission bounties.


So why not just make Blue-loot player-only tradeable? Problem solved?

Tippia wrote:
[...] And yes, there can indeed be that much blue loot. For instance, 7 trillion ISK in January alone means 225bn ISK daily on average.


Duly noted. But those figures are a bit old now, anything more recent would be nice, one way or the other.

Tarryn Nightstorm wrote:
Again, it's implied strongly.


Tippia wrote:
And again, I don't see it. A “solo wormhole” is not the same thing as a “wormhole to solo”. One describes the state of the system; the other describes an activity.


Why would someone be in a wormhole system at all if not to do at least some of the content? It takes real effort, and more to the point real risk --including the disfavour of the good ole' Random Number Generator God-- to really profit off a wormhole (Blue Loot may be guaranteed, but melted nanoribbons and higher-class Radar and Mag. sites (also RNG) are where the big money is from Sleepers. That's all player-to-player traded.))

In any case, there are also much safer places where one can idle semi-AFK whilst streaming p0rn in another windowBlink

Star Wars: the Old Republic may not be EVE. But I'll take the sound of dual blaster-pistols over "NURVV CLAOKING NAOW!!!11oneone!!" any day of the week.
Lin-Young Borovskova
Doomheim
#129 - 2012-11-12 19:58:41 UTC
Bunnie Hop wrote:
No thanks. Just the next chapter in the endless saga of nerf hi sec because they play diffferently than I do.



I, as Null sec player, agree with this statement.
And I'm not even trolling but seriously agreeing because I'm tired of this nonsense forum lobbing by whatever dudes not having anything else of their day time or life to do then open multiple threads with same old stories comments and sentences with different alts of the same guys endlessly repeating them selves like old ladies...

Plus, not only they're not interesting but boring, annoying and not funny.

brb
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#130 - 2012-11-12 20:06:52 UTC
Lin-Young Borovskova wrote:
Bunnie Hop wrote:
No thanks. Just the next chapter in the endless saga of nerf hi sec because they play diffferently than I do.



I, as Null sec player, agree with this statement.




lol, that would make you both wrong then. And i'm not a null sec player, I play EVE (12 toons on 4 accounts, spread all over), not just a part of it like many of you choose to (which is your right, just sayin).

As in real life politics, it's easier to demonize the other side, to imagine it's evil (those fascists just want to control my "playstyle"), that it is to address the other sides actual concerns and acknowledge that while you might not agree, the other side has a point and a right to be different.

i know there is a whole thread about it because i just posted in it, but statement like the above quoted one are a big reason why discussion on Gd are generally crap. People post emotionally rather than rationally, and are more interested in scoring cheap, non-existant forum points (lol) than learning from their fellow players about differing points of view.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#131 - 2012-11-12 20:18:21 UTC
Sointu Luonnotar wrote:
You mean; Remaining ISK faucets not in high sec? Why don't we remove some ISK faucets from null and WH for a change.
Null has had severe reductions in their ISK faucets already, so no, it's probably highsec's turn.

And no, I mean remaining ISK faucets. There are only four real ones in the game and none of them are specific to any particular part of space. What we're talking about here is just a subcategory of one of those four.

Tarryn Nightstorm wrote:
So why not just make Blue-loot player-only tradeable? Problem solved?
Because then you'd have to come up with a reason for players to buy them (in bulk), and that's not a trivial project.

Quote:
Why would someone be in a wormhole system at all if not to do at least some of the content?
To come on the forums and brag about “his” wormhole? Blink
Again, the point didn't seem to be much about what you could or would do with it but with how there's enough to go around for everyone, should the mood strike them (sure, it won't — what would be the fun in that, but still…).
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#132 - 2012-11-12 20:22:46 UTC
Andski wrote:
Dar Manic wrote:
Probably some accuracy in that statement. If Hi-sec is such a faucet with no risk, wouldn't the guys complaining go to where the easy isk is? Surely they like easy isk? ;)


Are you serious? Does hisec look like a ghost town right now?

When I started out in null I kept going back to highsec to do incursions (this was before the nerf). I kept doing so until one of my corp directors complained to me about it.

Too lazy to train an alt for highsec so now I make my isk in null and deal with the marginally higher / sometimes lower income for the convenience.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
XxRTEKxX
256th Shadow Wing
Phantom-Recon
#133 - 2012-11-12 20:23:10 UTC
My response to the original post is yes to all except removal/reduction of npc bounties. They are called bounties for a reason. The agent pays us per kill. I like that, and I do not want that to change.
DarthNefarius
Minmatar Heavy Industries
#134 - 2012-11-12 21:39:17 UTC  |  Edited by: DarthNefarius
Tippia wrote:
Sointu Luonnotar wrote:
You mean; Remaining ISK faucets not in high sec? Why don't we remove some ISK faucets from null and WH for a change.
Null has had severe reductions in their ISK faucets already, so no, it's probably highsec's turn.

And no, I mean remaining ISK faucets. There are only four real ones in the game and none of them are specific to any particular part of space.


Ummm Blue loot dropped from Sleepers is specific to WH space & generates ~ 9 trillion ISK fauceted per month.


Also HI SEC has already had a 6-7 trillion ISK per month nerf from the Escalation Incursion NERF ( I suspect 1-2 trillion ISK from lo/NULL incursions was nerfed also )
An' then Chicken@little.com, he come scramblin outta the    Terminal room screaming "The system's crashing! The system's    crashing!" -Uncle RAMus, 'Tales for Cyberpsychotic Children'
DarthNefarius
Minmatar Heavy Industries
#135 - 2012-11-12 21:46:53 UTC
Harland White wrote:
More null/low sec dwellers trying to get high-sec nerfed. They even have some of their friends coming up in here posting stuff like "herp derp I run missions on my alt because I make more isk doing that than my null sec crap". Sure...sure.

I think we need to start petitioning CCP to screw up null and low sec. Those plexes in null definitely need nerfing for sure, as well as mining and all other possible null sec "isk faucets". Let's get on this, guys.



I tried that once right after CCP Soundwave threatened in his Ten Ton Hammer interview to have an across the board 10% bounty cut... so I started a GD thread stating WH's then should also share the pain & get nerfed too. Some ingenious ISD then moved the thread into the WH subforum to try to kill it Lol even though the thread was a Christen being thrown into a lions den it still persisted for quite awhile Lol
An' then Chicken@little.com, he come scramblin outta the    Terminal room screaming "The system's crashing! The system's    crashing!" -Uncle RAMus, 'Tales for Cyberpsychotic Children'
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#136 - 2012-11-12 21:50:42 UTC
DarthNefarius wrote:
Ummm Blue loot dropped from Sleepers is specific to WH space & generates ~ 9 trillion ISK fauceted per month.
Blue loot is just NPC buy orders — those exist all over the place for all kinds of random junk.
DarthNefarius
Minmatar Heavy Industries
#137 - 2012-11-12 21:53:59 UTC  |  Edited by: DarthNefarius
Tippia wrote:
DarthNefarius wrote:
Ummm Blue loot dropped from Sleepers is specific to WH space & generates ~ 9 trillion ISK fauceted per month.
Blue loot is just NPC buy orders — those exist all over the place for all kinds of random junk.



CCP Diagoras specifically attributed ~9 trillion a month to sleeper sites last spring, no?
http://twostep4csm.blogspot.com/2012/03/its-econmony-stupid.html
https://twitter.com/CCP_Diagoras/status/177740824178733056
An' then Chicken@little.com, he come scramblin outta the    Terminal room screaming "The system's crashing! The system's    crashing!" -Uncle RAMus, 'Tales for Cyberpsychotic Children'
Mars Theran
Foreign Interloper
#138 - 2012-11-12 21:55:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Mars Theran
DarthNefarius wrote:
Harland White wrote:
More null/low sec dwellers trying to get high-sec nerfed. They even have some of their friends coming up in here posting stuff like "herp derp I run missions on my alt because I make more isk doing that than my null sec crap". Sure...sure.

I think we need to start petitioning CCP to screw up null and low sec. Those plexes in null definitely need nerfing for sure, as well as mining and all other possible null sec "isk faucets". Let's get on this, guys.



I tried that once right after CCP Soundwave threatened in his Ten Ton Hammer interview to have an across the board 10% bounty cut... so I started a GD thread stating WH's then should also share the pain & get nerfed too. Some ingenious ISD then moved the thread into the WH subforum to try to kill it Lol even though the thread was a Christen being thrown into a lions den it still persisted for quite awhile Lol


Meanwhile.. bounties are the largest single ISK Faucet in EVE. It was a good idea. Also, there is no effort to bounties. Just kill the ship and collect.
zubzubzubzubzubzubzubzub
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#139 - 2012-11-12 22:18:16 UTC
DarthNefarius wrote:
CCP Diagoras specifically attributed ~9 trillion a month to sleeper sites last spring, no?
Yes, and it's still just NPC buy orders. It's not some special or unique faucet.
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#140 - 2012-11-12 22:20:39 UTC
Harland White wrote:
More null/low sec dwellers trying to get high-sec nerfed. They even have some of their friends coming up in here posting stuff like "herp derp I run missions on my alt because I make more isk doing that than my null sec crap". Sure...sure.

I think we need to start petitioning CCP to screw up null and low sec. Those plexes in null definitely need nerfing for sure, as well as mining and all other possible null sec "isk faucets". Let's get on this, guys.

It's cute how clueless highsec players think we want highsec nerfed just because we for some inexplicable reason don't like it, and propose the opposite out of some misguided sense of vengeance.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)