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Making missions more challenging and reducing the isk faucet

First post
Author
Amateratsu
The Pegasus Project
#1 - 2012-11-11 13:04:33 UTC  |  Edited by: Amateratsu
Reduce the number of gated rooms - there is nothing more boring than having to slowboat 40 - 50km to each gate in multiple rooms.

Reduce the number of npc,s - but make them much tougher, instead of multiple rooms filled with 20+ npc,s have 1 (maybe 2) rooms with 2 to 4 groups of 3 or 4 npc,s, but make those npc,s as tough as the previous 20+ and take as long to kill. Give them the ehp / resists and dps of an equivalent player fitted ship.

Inprove Npc AI. - the upcoming AI changes are a good start, but the pilot of an npc should be thinking hey i'm getting hammered, im warping out to rep up... give them the abbility to warp / micro jump out of range to rep up and then return to the battle rather than the current lemmings to the slaughter.

So you will have to tackle / scram them to hold them in place.
Have only 1 group aggro at a time, unless you get too close or shoot at another group, in which can your in serious risk of getting your ass handed to you on a platter.

Remove / reduce bounties - remove the isk faucet that everyone complains about, compensate by increasing LP payout and add lots more shinnies to the LP Stores, That way the isk comes from trading those shinnies with other players instead of an isk faucet.

Reduce the quantity of tags required to purchase LP store items - Seriously, the quantity of tags required for most items in the LP stores is ludicrous and can only be obtained by buying them of the market which renders a lot of the LP store items worthless and cheaper to buy from the player market than the LP Store. increase LP required to buy items, reduce isk / tags required.

TLDR. Reduce # NPC's, make them much toughter, remove / reduce bountys, increase LP Reward / Items to compensate
Heat shields activated, flame away
Bunnie Hop
Bunny Knights
#2 - 2012-11-11 13:08:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Bunnie Hop
No thanks. Just the next chapter in the endless saga of nerf hi sec because they play diffferently than I do.
Dave stark
#3 - 2012-11-11 13:14:49 UTC
so you're suggesting more effort for less reward?

i can see this going down well.
Amateratsu
The Pegasus Project
#4 - 2012-11-11 13:22:01 UTC
Dave stark wrote:
so you're suggesting more effort for less reward?

i can see this going down well.


No, the reward would be balance by increasing the LP and adiing more / better items to the LP Store.

For example increase the lp payout to say 25 - 30k for a good mission, add more valuable items to the store for example multiple run bpc's for ships and other factions items.

How about a 5 run faction battleship bpc for say 1.5m LP?

So the reward will be as good as it is now.
Bunnie Hop
Bunny Knights
#5 - 2012-11-11 13:24:21 UTC
Amateratsu wrote:
Dave stark wrote:
so you're suggesting more effort for less reward?

i can see this going down well.


No, the reward would be balance by increasing the LP and adiing more / better items to the LP Store.

For example increase the lp payout to say 25 - 30k for a good mission, add more valuable items to the store for example multiple run bpc's for ships and other factions items.

How about a 5 run faction battleship bpc for say 1.5m LP?

So the reward will be as good as it is now.


Then the market will be flooded with that crap and they will be worthless. Missions already earn considerably less then they did years ago and if people are to afford pvp they need an income. Missions are not the faucet that forum fighters would have you believe.
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#6 - 2012-11-11 13:26:04 UTC
Amateratsu wrote:
Reduce the number of gated rooms - there is nothing more boring than having to slowboat 40 - 50km to each gate in multiple rooms.

Reduce the number of npc,s - but make them much tougher, instead of multiple rooms filled with 20+ npc,s have 1 (maybe 2) rooms with 2 to 4 groups of 3 or 4 npc,s, but make those npc,s as tough as the previous 20+ and take as long to kill. Give them the ehp / resists and dps of an equivalent player fitted ship.

Inprove Npc AI. - the upcoming AI changes are a good start, but the pilot of an npc should be thinking hey i'm getting hammered, im warping out to rep up... give them the abbility to warp / micro jump out of range to rep up and then return to the battle rather than the current lemmings to the slaughter.

So you will have to tackle / scram them to hold them in place.
Have only 1 group aggro at a time, unless you get too close or shoot at another group, in which can your in serious risk of getting your ass handed to you on a platter.

Remove / reduce bounties - remove the isk faucet that everyone complains about, compensate by increasing LP payout and add lots more shinnies to the LP Stores, That way the isk comes from trading those shinnies with other players instead of an isk faucet.

Reduce the quantity of tags required to purchase LP store items - Seriously, the quantity of tags required for most items in the LP stores is ludicrous and can only be obtained by buying them of the market which renders a lot of the LP store items worthless and cheaper to buy from the player market than the LP Store. increase LP required to buy items, reduce isk / tags required.

TLDR. Reduce # NPC's, make them much toughter, remove / reduce bountys, increase LP Reward / Items to compensate
Heat shields activated, flame away


Go to a wormhole, most of what you want is already there.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack

Oleszka
Syntropia Of Avatara
#7 - 2012-11-11 13:33:01 UTC
Amateratsu wrote:
Reduce the number of gated rooms - there is nothing more boring than having to slowboat 40 - 50km to each gate in multiple rooms.

Reduce the number of npc,s - but make them much tougher, instead of multiple rooms filled with 20+ npc,s have 1 (maybe 2) rooms with 2 to 4 groups of 3 or 4 npc,s, but make those npc,s as tough as the previous 20+ and take as long to kill. Give them the ehp / resists and dps of an equivalent player fitted ship.

Inprove Npc AI. - the upcoming AI changes are a good start, but the pilot of an npc should be thinking hey i'm getting hammered, im warping out to rep up... give them the abbility to warp / micro jump out of range to rep up and then return to the battle rather than the current lemmings to the slaughter.

So you will have to tackle / scram them to hold them in place.
Have only 1 group aggro at a time, unless you get too close or shoot at another group, in which can your in serious risk of getting your ass handed to you on a platter.

Remove / reduce bounties - remove the isk faucet that everyone complains about, compensate by increasing LP payout and add lots more shinnies to the LP Stores, That way the isk comes from trading those shinnies with other players instead of an isk faucet.

Reduce the quantity of tags required to purchase LP store items - Seriously, the quantity of tags required for most items in the LP stores is ludicrous and can only be obtained by buying them of the market which renders a lot of the LP store items worthless and cheaper to buy from the player market than the LP Store. increase LP required to buy items, reduce isk / tags required.

TLDR. Reduce # NPC's, make them much toughter, remove / reduce bountys, increase LP Reward / Items to compensate
Heat shields activated, flame away


wtf!

you know eve have different shiptype and this shiptype are for different thinks, like for different missions btw....

if you boring of missions, and the npc are not smart enough for you change to FW or go 0.0 or low sec....

its seems to me, you dont know nothing about eve... sorry

**EvE-Movie, take a look and enjoy it **PushMe

Dave stark
#8 - 2012-11-11 13:38:32 UTC  |  Edited by: Dave Stark
Bunnie Hop wrote:
Amateratsu wrote:
Dave stark wrote:
so you're suggesting more effort for less reward?

i can see this going down well.


No, the reward would be balance by increasing the LP and adiing more / better items to the LP Store.

For example increase the lp payout to say 25 - 30k for a good mission, add more valuable items to the store for example multiple run bpc's for ships and other factions items.

How about a 5 run faction battleship bpc for say 1.5m LP?

So the reward will be as good as it is now.


Then the market will be flooded with that crap and they will be worthless.


this.

hence, more effort for less reward.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#9 - 2012-11-11 13:39:51 UTC
Bunnie Hop wrote:
Then the market will be flooded with that crap and they will be worthless.
Then it will create a self-balancing ecosystem that keeps people flowing from one activity to the next (or, more likely, from one faction to the next).

Quote:
Missions already earn considerably less then they did years ago and if people are to afford pvp they need an income.
Nah. Missions earn about the same — it has just become relatively worse compared to the new means of making money that have been introduced.

Quote:
Missions are not the faucet that forum fighters would have you believe.
Actually, they are, and the numbers are there to show it.
Pohbis
Neo T.E.C.H.
#10 - 2012-11-11 14:03:14 UTC
Bunnie Hop wrote:

Then the market will be flooded with that crap and they will be worthless.
Here you show that you understand the basics of the market.

Bunnie Hop wrote:

Missions already earn considerably less then they did years ago and if people are to afford pvp they need an income.
But here it falls apart suddenly. If missioners earned considerably less, the prices would have adjusted to the lower income. Obviously this hasn't happened - it's not the miners, Tech Mongers or industrialists keeping prices up, everyone else but the PvEers are just redistributing the money that mission, ratter and Incursion players are injecting into the economy.

Bunnie Hop wrote:

Missions are not the faucet that forum fighters would have you believe.
Yes, they really are. Go look up the quarterly reports.
Bunnie Hop
Bunny Knights
#11 - 2012-11-11 14:04:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Bunnie Hop
Tippia wrote:
Bunnie Hop wrote:
Then the market will be flooded with that crap and they will be worthless.
Then it will create a self-balancing ecosystem that keeps people flowing from one activity to the next (or, more likely, from one faction to the next).

Quote:
Missions already earn considerably less then they did years ago and if people are to afford pvp they need an income.
Nah. Missions earn about the same — it has just become relatively worse compared to the new means of making money that have been introduced.

Quote:
Missions are not the faucet that forum fighters would have you believe.
Actually, they are, and the numbers are there to show it.


The elimination of drone metals and lower meta drops made missions far less profitable. As for a self balancing ecosystem, I don't see that happening. The only result of this action would be the large null sec blob alliances would control even a greater percentage of the games wealth, in my opinion. Not denigrating your position but I just disagree.
Rengerel en Distel
#12 - 2012-11-11 14:05:16 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Bunnie Hop wrote:
Then the market will be flooded with that crap and they will be worthless.
Then it will create a self-balancing ecosystem that keeps people flowing from one activity to the next (or, more likely, from one faction to the next).

Quote:
Missions already earn considerably less then they did years ago and if people are to afford pvp they need an income.
Nah. Missions earn about the same — it has just become relatively worse compared to the new means of making money that have been introduced.

Quote:
Missions are not the faucet that forum fighters would have you believe.
Actually, they are, and the numbers are there to show it.


The only numbers i've seen only said npc bounties were the highest faucet. Do you have something that breaks it down between missions and complexes?

With the increase in shiptoasting, the Report timer needs to be shortened.

Jace Errata
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#13 - 2012-11-11 15:09:42 UTC
Worth remembering that while missions still give a fair amount of ISK, that ISK now buys less. I get ~100k-~300k ISK per L3 mission; an empty Blackbird hull costs 4m ISK. Good fittings cost more, and of course missions are tedious enough that it's hard to make yourself do the 20 in a row you need for the hull alone.

In short, missions need to be interesting before you should consider nerfing them. If they're nerfed and boring, nobody will run them.

tweeten

One day they woke me up so I could live forever

It's such a shame the same will never happen to you

Bane Necran
Appono Astos
#14 - 2012-11-11 15:20:15 UTC
Thank you for your concern, people of 0.0, but i assure you hisec is OK.

Seems to me, if anywhere needs improvements, it's the wasteland of 0.0. Maybe you should put some brain power towards that instead of this nearly decade old skipping record.

"In the void is virtue, and no evil. Wisdom has existence, principle has existence, the Way has existence, spirit is nothingness." ~Miyamoto Musashi

Elvis Fett
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#15 - 2012-11-11 15:32:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Elvis Fett
Jace Errata wrote:
Worth remembering that while missions still give a fair amount of ISK, that ISK now buys less. I get ~100k-~300k ISK per L3 mission; an empty Blackbird hull costs 4m ISK. Good fittings cost more, and of course missions are tedious enough that it's hard to make yourself do the 20 in a row you need for the hull alone.

In short, missions need to be interesting before you should consider nerfing them. If they're nerfed and boring, nobody will run them.


See the OP is really not suggesting nerfing missions, if anything it may be a bit of a buff. Jace you hit the nail on the head, your isk buys less than it did 24 or even 12 months ago, and that is due to inflation. Every time somebody runs a mission they are rewarded with fresh isk injected into the economy. This means that every single time somebody besides you runs a mission the isk you have in your wallet becomes worth less. As more isk comes into the game, the buying power of the isk you have drops.

If missions rewards were changed to not be worth less, but to be paid out with mostly items as opposed to new isk, it would benefit the mission runner (and every one else in New Eden). You would be getting the same amount of isk (after selling LP items), but your isk would have much better purchasing power allowing you to by more ships for the same amount of isk.


Although I do think this is a pretty good idea, IMO wormholes are a more pressing matter. They are massive massive isk faucets, and due to the sheer number of wormholes there are pretty risk free. There is no competition with WHs because there are so many, pretty much every pilot in EVE could have their own solo C5. Half the amount of wormholes and make those WH corps fight for their isk faucets.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#16 - 2012-11-11 15:57:09 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
Rengerel en Distel wrote:
The only numbers i've seen only said npc bounties were the highest faucet. Do you have something that breaks it down between missions and complexes?
We have large-N studies that show that mission bounties on average equate to 3–4× the base and bonus rewards, putting the bounty portion from missions at roughly half (leaning towards more than half) the global bounty payout.

Elvis Fett wrote:
[Although I do think this is a pretty good idea, IMO wormholes are a more pressing matter. They are massive massive isk faucets, and due to the sheer number of wormholes there are pretty risk free.
They still only inject maybe a third the ISK of missions.
Elvis Fett
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#17 - 2012-11-11 16:05:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Elvis Fett
Tippia wrote:
Elvis Fett wrote:
[Although I do think this is a pretty good idea, IMO wormholes are a more pressing matter. They are massive massive isk faucets, and due to the sheer number of wormholes there are pretty risk free.
They still only inject maybe a third the ISK of missions.


You may be right, but there are 20x more mission runners than WH dwellers. Missions are very accessible while WHs are not so much. If high-sec mission runners moved to empty wormholes in droves, our economy would be in trouble. But I digress, and am getting off topic. Smile
Nexus Day
Lustrevik Trade and Travel Bureau
#18 - 2012-11-11 16:18:12 UTC
So let me get this straight.

Mission running injects alot of isk into the economy because....

There are a lot more casual mission runners these days that.pay a sub, so...

Let's try and make their life more difficult, and then maybe....

We can get them to unsub, then....

We will be left with more hardcore players that don't pay a sub to play as a percentage.

I have no idea why the community wouldn't want this and why CCP shouldn't consider this.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#19 - 2012-11-11 16:35:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
Nexus Day wrote:
Mission running injects alot of isk into the economy because....

There are a lot more casual mission runners these days that.pay a sub, so...
…they are the perfect target for reductions in ISK injection since you can go a long way with very little. Their large numbers mean that even a small change can have a large effect, all without making the life miserable for them individually so no subs will be lost.
Rengerel en Distel
#20 - 2012-11-11 17:29:10 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Rengerel en Distel wrote:
The only numbers i've seen only said npc bounties were the highest faucet. Do you have something that breaks it down between missions and complexes?
We have large-N studies that show that mission bounties on average equate to 3–4× the base and bonus rewards, putting the bounty portion from missions at roughly half (leaning towards more than half) the global bounty payout.

Elvis Fett wrote:
[Although I do think this is a pretty good idea, IMO wormholes are a more pressing matter. They are massive massive isk faucets, and due to the sheer number of wormholes there are pretty risk free.
They still only inject maybe a third the ISK of missions.


That doesn't actually answer my question, which was what is the breakdown from mission rats vs complex rats? The only thing i have seen talk about rats in general, with no breakdown. It could be argued as easily that is the 0.0 players running 10/10 DED complexes that are the ones turning on the isk faucet.

With the increase in shiptoasting, the Report timer needs to be shortened.

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