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Define Carebear

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Dar Manic
Dirt Road Services
#121 - 2012-11-12 14:08:15 UTC  |  Edited by: Dar Manic
stoicfaux wrote:
Remiel Pollard wrote:
I want to know WHY they're scum - or why they're NOT scum...

Hoo-boy. What country do you live in that has zero to one political parties? It's a time honored tactic dating back to the Garden of Eden to unify your group of people by demonizing another group, thus giving your group a purpose and a reason to take action.

Close seconds for why carebears are scum are: "bullying is fun," 'they don't fight back," "hiding my insecurity behind internet anonymity," and "really bored."

edit: To be clear, "carebears" don't exist per se. "Hating carebears" does exist.


The vast majority of time people use it as bolded/underlined. They normally have a weak argument so they have to get others on their side based on belittling others. If you see someone use carebear in an argument, it's normally safe to ignore the entire post. They're just using hyperbole in the rest of the post anyway.

I just don't understand null sec players.

**Please note: **Anytime I use the phrase PvP in a post, I'm talking about shooting/combat/killing things/blowing things up. Thank you.
Remiel Pollard
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#122 - 2012-11-12 14:13:09 UTC

I just realised I made a severe typo possibly resulting in terrible miscommunication of my point to begin with in my OP. What I had originally written was "I want to know WHY they're scum - or why they're NOT scum...", but what I had intended to write was "I *don't* want to know WHY they're scum - or why they're NOT scum...". I have edited the OP accordingly, but I sincerely apologise for this as it has likely miscommunicated my intentions here. This was my fault, and I humbly accept all previous flames as a result of this error.

“Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.” - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
ISD TYPE40
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#123 - 2012-11-12 17:26:10 UTC  |  Edited by: ISD TYPE40
Remiel Pollard wrote:
I see this term get thrown around a lot, more often as a pejorative for players that play the game a certain way - I'm not sure I understand what that certain way is, though, so I would appreciate it if someone explained. I know I'm going to get a few people who just say "carebears are the scum of highsec" and that's it, but that's not a definition, is it. I *don't* want to know WHY they're scum - or why they're NOT scum... in fact, I'd rather a definition, properly delivered without bias, not include the word scum at all. An explanation would be nice, not more accusations, pejoratives and condemnations. I just want to know what it means, not how you feel about it - although I'm sure some of you will tell me anyway.



The interesting thing here is that you answered your own question in the very first line of your opening post. The term Carebear is used by one subset of individuals to describe generally, though not exclusively, in negative terms another subset of individuals who engage in a different style of play.

Attempting to seek a rational and non-emotion based analysis of a word whose basis is firmly set in the individuals emotional perception of another individual is highly illogical. In fact, the only thing that could possibly be defined, though rather loosely unless one intends on having different definitions for every game in existence, would be the different play styles available to the end user.

[b]ISD Type40 Lt. Commander Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs) Interstellar Services Department[/b]
Remiel Pollard
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#124 - 2012-11-12 17:31:04 UTC
ISD TYPE40 wrote:
Remiel Pollard wrote:
I see this term get thrown around a lot, more often as a pejorative for players that play the game a certain way - I'm not sure I understand what that certain way is, though, so I would appreciate it if someone explained. I know I'm going to get a few people who just say "carebears are the scum of highsec" and that's it, but that's not a definition, is it. I *don't* want to know WHY they're scum - or why they're NOT scum... in fact, I'd rather a definition, properly delivered without bias, not include the word scum at all. An explanation would be nice, not more accusations, pejoratives and condemnations. I just want to know what it means, not how you feel about it - although I'm sure some of you will tell me anyway.



The interesting thing here is that you answered your own question in the very first line of your opening post. The term Carebear is used by one subset of individuals to describe generally, though not exclusively, in negative terms another subset of individuals who engage in a different style of play.

Attempting to seek a rational and non-emotion based analysis of a word whose basis is firmly set in the individuals emotional perception of another individual is highly illogical. In fact, the only thing that could possibly be defined, though rather loosely unless one intends on having different definitions for every game in existence, would be the different play styles available to the end user.


So essentially, what I'm seeing when this word is used is an irrationally upset player referring to another player doing something they don't like.

“Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.” - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
ISD TYPE40
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#125 - 2012-11-12 18:10:27 UTC
Remiel Pollard wrote:
ISD TYPE40 wrote:
Remiel Pollard wrote:
I see this term get thrown around a lot, more often as a pejorative for players that play the game a certain way - I'm not sure I understand what that certain way is, though, so I would appreciate it if someone explained. I know I'm going to get a few people who just say "carebears are the scum of highsec" and that's it, but that's not a definition, is it. I *don't* want to know WHY they're scum - or why they're NOT scum... in fact, I'd rather a definition, properly delivered without bias, not include the word scum at all. An explanation would be nice, not more accusations, pejoratives and condemnations. I just want to know what it means, not how you feel about it - although I'm sure some of you will tell me anyway.



The interesting thing here is that you answered your own question in the very first line of your opening post. The term Carebear is used by one subset of individuals to describe generally, though not exclusively, in negative terms another subset of individuals who engage in a different style of play.

Attempting to seek a rational and non-emotion based analysis of a word whose basis is firmly set in the individuals emotional perception of another individual is highly illogical. In fact, the only thing that could possibly be defined, though rather loosely unless one intends on having different definitions for every game in existence, would be the different play styles available to the end user.


So essentially, what I'm seeing when this word is used is an irrationally upset player referring to another player doing something they don't like.



I wouldn't say it is irrational, because that is as subjective as the term Carebear. Such thoughts may well be perfectly rational to the one using the term Carebear, which is why no wholly accurate definition for it is possible. As beauty is to the eye, so the meaning of this term is to the mind.

[b]ISD Type40 Lt. Commander Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs) Interstellar Services Department[/b]
Rache Bartmoss
The Perfect Harvesting Experience
#126 - 2012-11-13 09:37:54 UTC
Kehro Urgus
Dark Nebula Academy
O X I D E
#127 - 2012-11-13 10:35:41 UTC
A carebear will lock this thread. Blink

Yeeee! 
Remiel Pollard
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#128 - 2012-11-13 10:38:04 UTC
ISD TYPE40 wrote:
Remiel Pollard wrote:
ISD TYPE40 wrote:
Remiel Pollard wrote:
I see this term get thrown around a lot, more often as a pejorative for players that play the game a certain way - I'm not sure I understand what that certain way is, though, so I would appreciate it if someone explained. I know I'm going to get a few people who just say "carebears are the scum of highsec" and that's it, but that's not a definition, is it. I *don't* want to know WHY they're scum - or why they're NOT scum... in fact, I'd rather a definition, properly delivered without bias, not include the word scum at all. An explanation would be nice, not more accusations, pejoratives and condemnations. I just want to know what it means, not how you feel about it - although I'm sure some of you will tell me anyway.



The interesting thing here is that you answered your own question in the very first line of your opening post. The term Carebear is used by one subset of individuals to describe generally, though not exclusively, in negative terms another subset of individuals who engage in a different style of play.

Attempting to seek a rational and non-emotion based analysis of a word whose basis is firmly set in the individuals emotional perception of another individual is highly illogical. In fact, the only thing that could possibly be defined, though rather loosely unless one intends on having different definitions for every game in existence, would be the different play styles available to the end user.


So essentially, what I'm seeing when this word is used is an irrationally upset player referring to another player doing something they don't like.



I wouldn't say it is irrational, because that is as subjective as the term Carebear. Such thoughts may well be perfectly rational to the one using the term Carebear, which is why no wholly accurate definition for it is possible. As beauty is to the eye, so the meaning of this term is to the mind.


Makes sense, except for the part where rationality is subjective. People have done and said a lot of things they found "rational" at the time, but whether or not they were logical is another matter. But it can't be that simple, either, because something has to drive such common application of the term - why is it common usage if it's definition is purely subjective? The term certainly seems to be applied to a certain segment of players only, while simultaneously denied by that same segment.

Rache Bartmoss' link above for urban dictionary I think is a very concise and helpful (and somewhat amusing) link - I didn't like the dictionary.com one from earlier because it was just too vague.

“Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.” - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
ISD TYPE40
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#129 - 2012-11-13 11:06:02 UTC  |  Edited by: ISD TYPE40
Remiel Pollard wrote:


Makes sense, except for the part where rationality is subjective. People have done and said a lot of things they found "rational" at the time, but whether or not they were logical is another matter. But it can't be that simple, either, because something has to drive such common application of the term - why is it common usage if it's definition is purely subjective? The term certainly seems to be applied to a certain segment of players only, while simultaneously denied by that same segment.

Rache Bartmoss' link above for urban dictionary I think is a very concise and helpful (and somewhat amusing) link - I didn't like the dictionary.com one from earlier because it was just too vague.




To assume that rationality is objective, and not subjective would be to assume that everyone shares an equal sense of reason. History shows that this is not the case, where some groups of people may have a shared sense of reason within their own boundaries, that particular definition may not be equal to that of another group of people.

As to your point regarding ration and logic, the two are not mutually exclusive, since rationality can be influenced by cultural and societal values whereas logical thought is the ability to strip away those cultural and societal influences. In the case of EVE and the term Carebear, it should be clear that cultural and societal influences from both the real world AND the game world not only determine its usage but combined, are the singular source for the words existence. Any attempt to strip away the rational to find the logic beneath would, by definition, render the word meaningless.

tl;dr: The term "Carebear" is an entirely subjective one, and thus cannot be solidly defined as anything other than which I described in my previous post.

[b]ISD Type40 Lt. Commander Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs) Interstellar Services Department[/b]
CCP Falcon
#130 - 2012-11-13 11:07:50 UTC

Carebears are awesome, and are the backbone of EVE's economy.

Without them, all us ebil people wouldn't have anyone to build ships so that we could blow eachother up.

Big smile

CCP Falcon || EVE Universe Community Manager || @CCP_Falcon

Happy Birthday To FAWLTY7! <3
Inquisitor Kitchner
The Executives
#131 - 2012-11-13 11:33:28 UTC  |  Edited by: Inquisitor Kitchner
CCP Falcon wrote:

Carebears are awesome, and are the backbone of EVE's economy.

Without them, all us ebil people wouldn't have anyone to build ships so that we could blow eachother up.

Big smile



Course we would.

Even though I'm a PvP null sec player if I knew no-one else was building ships I would start building them and cashing in. That's the beauty of EVE

EDIT: Also ISD Type40 is actually owning this thread.

"If an injury has to be done to a man it should be so severe that his vengeance need not be feared." - Niccolo Machiavelli
Sointu Luonnotar
Doomheim
#132 - 2012-11-13 11:34:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Sointu Luonnotar
CCP Falcon wrote:

Carebears are awesome, and are the backbone of EVE's economy.

Without them, all us ebil people wouldn't have anyone to build ships so that we could blow eachother up.

Big smile




I can feel the love already. <3

@Kitchner; but then.. you are the carebears!
Ezri Dax
The Organization of Fire and Steel
Elementium Alliance
#133 - 2012-11-13 11:37:26 UTC
To me a carebear wants no risk in the game , hes the sort of player wants to calculate out the maths of an agent mission on a spreadsheet , fit up his ship and risk nothing . atleast as previously spoken about if a trader makes a bad deal he loses his iskies , to me its not about purely combat its about the willingness to take chance that might nose dive you in trouble

i would love the removal of concord in high sec . except a safe ring around places like coustar for newbies to learn abit . maybe then players would learn about teamwork etc to survive .but im guess couster would just become inhabited with carebears who would try scam the newbies .
Souisa
Subhypersonics
#134 - 2012-11-13 11:52:08 UTC
Carebear is someone who does something at minimal risk or effort. For example a mining bumper

o/
Bruce Kemp
Suddenly taken over
#135 - 2012-11-13 11:56:57 UTC
White Quake wrote:


It is a term used by pvpers to describe pilots who do not want to pvp 24/7


This. Pirate
Remiel Pollard
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#136 - 2012-11-13 12:41:46 UTC
ISD TYPE40 wrote:



To assume that rationality is objective, and not subjective would be to assume that everyone shares an equal sense of reason. History shows that this is not the case, where some groups of people may have a shared sense of reason within their own boundaries, that particular definition may not be equal to that of another group of people.

As to your point regarding ration and logic, the two are not mutually exclusive, since rationality can be influenced by cultural and societal values whereas logical thought is the ability to strip away those cultural and societal influences. In the case of EVE and the term Carebear, it should be clear that cultural and societal influences from both the real world AND the game world not only determine its usage but combined, are the singular source for the words existence. Any attempt to strip away the rational to find the logic beneath would, by definition, render the word meaningless.

tl;dr: The term "Carebear" is an entirely subjective one, and thus cannot be solidly defined as anything other than which I described in my previous post.


We'll probably have to agree to disagree on the definition of rationality, but I think understand where you're going with the subjective nature of the term "carebear". That I had pretty much already established considering the variations of opinion. It's too loose a word, therefore I have concluded that the term "carebear" itself is irrelevant without the user defining what they mean by it. In so much as you yourself state that "carebears are the backbone of the economy", you are defining them.

As for rationality - I've always equated it with reason and logic. I don't believe that anything can be justified as rational without there being 1) a reason, and 2) a logical series of events that lead to the final decision. Otherwise, a word like "irrational" wouldn't exist - logically speaking.

At the end of the day, I don't intend to use the word carebear if I don't know who I'm referring to. Nor do I accept it's usage as anything other than a subjective, and therefore biased, rationalisation of a personal problem that one player might have with another, or others. So I think, in conclusion, the term itself can indeed be defined as purely pejorative - a carebear is a gamer doing something perfectly legitimate that you don't like.

“Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.” - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
Inquisitor Kitchner
The Executives
#137 - 2012-11-13 12:50:33 UTC
Sointu Luonnotar wrote:


@Kitchner; but then.. you are the carebears!



I wouldn't be a carebear though, because I don't care about anyone and frequently shoot them with lasers.

So I guess you could call me a "bear" still.

"If an injury has to be done to a man it should be so severe that his vengeance need not be feared." - Niccolo Machiavelli
Jenn aSide
Worthless Carebears
The Initiative.
#138 - 2012-11-13 13:45:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Jenn aSide
CCP Falcon wrote:

Carebears are awesome, and are the backbone of EVE's economy.

Without them, all us ebil people wouldn't have anyone to build ships so that we could blow eachother up.

Big smile



Yes they are awesome, but only when they understand that no matter their intentions, undocking is consent to pvp. They accept the risk I got no probs with them.
Minmatar Citizen160812
The LGBT Last Supper
#139 - 2012-11-13 13:56:31 UTC
Obenov
Rio Grande Industries
#140 - 2012-11-13 15:43:36 UTC
This thread was a nice brain massage