EVE General Discussion

In my humble opinion, T3 should never have been introduced in the first place.

Despite the new repurposing and rebalancing efforts, T3 hulls usurp the place of other ships.
- T3 cruisers now seem to be the goto gal for L4s.
- They have been used much more effectively than CSs as boosters (although this is changing).
- They are competent nul-sec transport and also do well at nul-sec ratting when refitted.

Everything that a Tengu, for example, does, other ships used to do. Now it's a case of pick and choose. Do you want a Tengu or a Navy Raven? I just wish that we could go back to uncomplicated T1 and T2, especially with the latest news on rebalancing: A specific ship for a specific role.

When modular ship design was first introduced I was excited about it. I think that if our current ships had been reworked to involve a small level of customisation, e.g. sacrifice some of the role bonus for extra speed or tank... or make a ship such as falcon have better chance of jam with increased cap usage... anything to make that ship more role orientated...

The prospect of T3 frigs or BSs just feels like it would make the problem worse. Who would use cruisers any longer, apart from the unique roles of the HIC for example?

I realise this is a horribly controversial opinion and not the best forum to express those (!) but it's always been my opinion of T3. This by no means makes the apocrypha expansion any less awesome though, and I agree that fixes and tweaks do not necessitate an 'expansion', a new name or dev blogs. My logging in to see a window has changed shape or a font has changed are not 'wow' moments like finding that first wormhole. Don't get me wrong, the balancing, V3'ing and everything else is important for a game to stay strong, but it's not something to parade through Reykjavik.

Personally, I still think the problem with Battleships is that they are all Alpha and no DPS. Everything else scales up from Frigates, but for some reason Battleships get less DPS than Battle Cruisers in many cases. Can't think of any specific examples, but it's obvious enough when you fit a BS and end up with 400 DPS with all level 5 skills.

That's barely more than a Cruiser, and it's also relatively useless against anything smaller. So how does that work exactly? Battleships only alpha? With the introduction of the new Battleship weapon carrying Battle Cruisers, it costs some 100 million less for the ability to field that kind of Alpha, and more effectively.

The only thing Battleships really have going for them is Buffer, and that is relatively useless when combined with low effective DPS and poor speed and maneuverability. Sure, they make a relatively decent solution for PvE level 4s, but aside from that they are relatively incapable for anything else and cost nearly as much as a T3 now.

Battleships need to be balanced. Thankfully that will happen relatively soon, but as an entire class they are entirely unimpressive. Fleets use them to be sure, but it only makes sense that 500 Maels with high Alpha Arty will be useful in a Fleet setting. Where else are they truly effective in PvP?

..aside from Station games.

That needs to be fixed before Tech 3 Battleships are considered as a real possibility. That, and the lack of real skill requirement.

I didn't say you couldn't get DPS on a Battleship, but what is the cost?

edit: Quick Comparison between Hurricane and Tempest, which have same bonuses for Projectile turrets. Also, remembered one of the reasons why I like the Tempest. Be nice to be able to fly one again, particularly with the new Hull Design coming.

Hurricane w/ 6*425s and Hail Ammo + 3 Gyros gets 689 DPS, where the Tempest with 6*800s , Hail, and 3 Gyros gets 918. A difference of 229 DPS, but with lower tracking and ability to apply that DPS. That was part of my argument if you missed it.

Fitting the Tempest like that also means you have limited ability to tank it, put other Mods on it, etc.. as with any Damage Mod fit, it is capable of dishing it out, but not taking it so much. All balance I suppose. Also, the increase to DPS is in large part because of the higher numbers to which the percentages are applied. Without the Gyros, the difference is only 139 DPS, and it is 556 for the Tempest then.

Given the requirement to fit Tracking computers and Enhancers to apply that DPS, be Tracking Linked, have Webs on the target, be in range, or whatever that DPS is not only a marginal increase, but also much less effective.

Retribution is great. I'm very excited for the newly rebalanced T1 cruisers, I think it will make life as a newbie much more fun and interesting. I'm not so sure about the new crime system, but that's because I really haven't gotten into that sort of thing yet, I imagine I'll get an opinion about it soon.

That being said, I've seen what Tech 3 Cruisers can do- they rival Battleships in some roles. A Tech 3 Battleship would be an incredibly powerful ship, and I think it would just be too difficult to balance. Tech 3 Frigates seem far more likely: they don't have the possibility of becoming a "win button" much as a Tech 3 Battleship might, and frigates are already very popular.

No. Tech 3 battleships would make T1 battleships even more obsolete than they are now.

Even the Tech 2 battleships need looking at first.

t3 moduals and new ships.... let me customize my ****... and paint my ship

T3 Frigates wouldn't necessarily be a waste, but they would be adding to an already impressive selection of ships in that class. Also, the expense might be a bit much for a Frigate, and any benefits would be limited due to the size and nature of the ship. I can see why they wouldn't do it.

Be nice to see Destroyers on up though, and balanced properly with some unconsidered roles, Tech 3 Frigates might be perfectly reasonable.

One role to consider for them: The racing ship. Give it 426 m/s base Max. Velocity, and 10% per level increase to Max. Velocity from the Propulsion Subsystem. Standard 6.0 AU per second Warp Speed. Add to that an Inertia of 0.5 and a 5% Agility increase per level... Totally useless DPS though, and hardly any tank.

I'm sure you could find roles for them, even if the one above is maybe a bit ridiculous.

bad bad idea , they will be way to overpowered and will cost you more than a carrier , unfitted
making them too expensive for pvp and the target of all kind of griefs
if you want the best ratting/PVE ships get yourself a marauder , all 4 of them are pretty good

expanding the number of modules , would be a much better idea

How about T3 rigs that take up 400 calibration and have bonus effects like the subsystems do. so you can add the T3 element to any ship.

I'd also go for t3 frigs. (could make factional warfare more fun)

Yes please CCP put T3 frigates in the game !!

Not only T1 or T2 frigates are already all over the place with some doing as much or +dps than many cruisers but my instacane would like to extract some dudes tears because they lost their 200M+ little shiny and a 6 day training skill.

Yeah, sure...