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Ship balancing slow.
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Beekeeper Bob
Beekeepers Anonymous
#21 - 2012-11-10 01:34:21 UTC
Justin Valentine wrote:
http://community.eveonline.com/devblog.asp?a=blog&nbid=73530

According to this Dev Blog, we wont see battlecruisers or battleships balanced till next year.
What about faction ships, T2's T3's and Capitals?

At this rate it will take until winter 2014/15 to finish this balance, why must it be so slow?

Weapons need fixing, drones need fixing, shield and armor tanks need re writing not even started on the basic universe we fly in.

Is Eve in beta? As far as I can see everything needs work.

CCP hire more staff, work overtime and get your ** together, you are on the right path fixing our spaceships but hurry it up please.



That's what happens when you try to develop 3 games at the same time....you fail at all three...Lol

Signature removed - CCP Eterne
Spurty
#22 - 2012-11-10 01:35:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Commander Spurty
If all CCP was doing was attributes changes, it would:

- take about 0.00345 seconds to apply the updates to the database
- not be worth a patch / update

Therefore, this is not all they are working on

Good to know you spotted this right off the bat OP

Well done

Now, cite your proof of a development house that rapidly delivers content and has ever been heard of outside of your very lengthy google searches

There are good ships,

And wood ships,

And ships that sail the sea

But the best ships are Spaceships

Built by CCP
Vaal Erit
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#23 - 2012-11-10 01:36:54 UTC
With the exception of warfare links and multiple Ancillary shield boosters on one ship, the game is fairly balanced especially when compared to other games in the MMORPG genre. PvE games just throw in PvP and try to balance it from there and ends up being a nightmare while EVE balancing from a PvP start does it pretty well.

CCP is working faster than expected. 6 months ago CCP claimed they'd only get through half of the frigates for the Dec expansion and we are getting all frigates + most of the cruisers.
ROXGenghis
Perkone
Caldari State
#24 - 2012-11-10 01:37:06 UTC
Ship balancing is actually being done at a breakneck pace at the moment.
Keen Fallsword
Skyway Patrol
#25 - 2012-11-10 01:40:42 UTC
Spurty wrote:
If all CCP was doing was attributes changes, it would:

- take about 0.00345 seconds to apply the updates to the database
- not be worth a patch / update

Therefore, this is not all they are working on

Good to know you spotted this right off the bat OP

Well done

Now, cite your proof of a development house that rapidly delivers content and has ever been heard of outside of your very lengthy google searches


Therefore, this is not all they are working on ?????

What else ? can you see any "cool" feature ? all they are doing is just cosmetics "free beer and bread for masses" :(
Keen Fallsword
Skyway Patrol
#26 - 2012-11-10 01:42:18 UTC
Vaal Erit wrote:
With the exception of warfare links and multiple Ancillary shield boosters on one ship, the game is fairly balanced especially when compared to other games in the MMORPG genre. PvE games just throw in PvP and try to balance it from there and ends up being a nightmare while EVE balancing from a PvP start does it pretty well.

CCP is working faster than expected. 6 months ago CCP claimed they'd only get through half of the frigates for the Dec expansion and we are getting all frigates + most of the cruisers.


Yea... because we are flying t1 frigns and t1 crus every day !!... NOT
Keen Fallsword
Skyway Patrol
#27 - 2012-11-10 01:44:05 UTC
Jack Miton wrote:
you clearly dont work in IT and have never been part of a development process.


WRONG... Im working in game dev biz. some AAA titles under my belt. So you are wrong.. And yes they are working really slow.
Xercodo
Cruor Angelicus
#28 - 2012-11-10 01:45:51 UTC
Keen Fallsword wrote:

Who cares about T1 Cruisers ! :) :)


Which is exactly why they're changing them. They're sadly very under used these days.

They way they are balancing now is a very deliberate plan to go step by step along the ship classes ad tech levels. Each of the smaller lower classes are the basis on what the larger and more advanced ships are going to be balanced around. They are the foundation.

A good metaphor for this kind of work is doing something like waiting for the foundation of a building to dry before building the floors on top. You can still make plans for the upper floors but if you try to build them too soon **** is gonna start falling over.

CCP's approach is to let each layer dry before putting on new one to ensure everything has good structure too it. They analyze how well each balancing sprint incorporates itself into TQ so that they can make sure to fix any problems and to solve them on the next sprint before that sprint ever gets out.

The clearest example of where they need to do this with is between T1 and T2 ships and with T2 ships and T3 ships. Balancing a game can be best described by the word itself, a balancing act. You do it very carefully and slowly with little increments to ensure everyone stays about level. If you see one end of the scale is drooping you dont just drop **** on the other end or start pulling things off the heavy end, you add and subtract little pieces.

The Drake is a Lie
Oraac Ensor
#29 - 2012-11-10 01:46:55 UTC
Justin Valentine wrote:
Grow up

That's really rich coming from someone who is exhibiting all the patience of a 5-year-old.
Justin Valentine
Mickey Mouse Club
#30 - 2012-11-10 01:49:42 UTC
Oraac Ensor wrote:
Justin Valentine wrote:
Grow up

That's really rich coming from someone who is exhibiting all the patience of a 5-year-old.

Really so a 2 year time frame is good to fix some ship attributes?
Oh how impatient I am you are so correct. ****
Xercodo
Cruor Angelicus
#31 - 2012-11-10 01:50:16 UTC
Keen Fallsword wrote:
Jack Miton wrote:
you clearly dont work in IT and have never been part of a development process.


WRONG... Im working in game dev biz. some AAA titles under my belt. So you are wrong.. And yes they are working really slow.


And in which department?

The Drake is a Lie
Keen Fallsword
Skyway Patrol
#32 - 2012-11-10 01:53:25 UTC
Xercodo wrote:
Keen Fallsword wrote:
Jack Miton wrote:
you clearly dont work in IT and have never been part of a development process.


WRONG... Im working in game dev biz. some AAA titles under my belt. So you are wrong.. And yes they are working really slow.


And in which department?


Production
Xercodo
Cruor Angelicus
#33 - 2012-11-10 01:56:54 UTC
Justin Valentine wrote:
Oraac Ensor wrote:
Justin Valentine wrote:
Grow up

That's really rich coming from someone who is exhibiting all the patience of a 5-year-old.

Really so a 2 year time frame is good to fix some ship attributes?
Oh how impatient I am you are so correct. ****


Well I figured they're spending about a week per ship on average, not counting the capitals (and I could have got my math off on that) and a week per ship sounds about right for a schedule of spending several days working with numbers on paper, a few days of in house testing, and a few weeks of public testing and feedback, divided up among about half a dozen ships ships per a month's worth of man hours.

The Drake is a Lie
Keen Fallsword
Skyway Patrol
#34 - 2012-11-10 01:58:02 UTC
Xercodo wrote:
Keen Fallsword wrote:

Who cares about T1 Cruisers ! :) :)


Which is exactly why they're changing them. They're sadly very under used these days.

They way they are balancing now is a very deliberate plan to go step by step along the ship classes ad tech levels. Each of the smaller lower classes are the basis on what the larger and more advanced ships are going to be balanced around. They are the foundation.

A good metaphor for this kind of work is doing something like waiting for the foundation of a building to dry before building the floors on top. You can still make plans for the upper floors but if you try to build them too soon **** is gonna start falling over.

CCP's approach is to let each layer dry before putting on new one to ensure everything has good structure too it. They analyze how well each balancing sprint incorporates itself into TQ so that they can make sure to fix any problems and to solve them on the next sprint before that sprint ever gets out.

The clearest example of where they need to do this with is between T1 and T2 ships and with T2 ships and T3 ships. Balancing a game can be best described by the word itself, a balancing act. You do it very carefully and slowly with little increments to ensure everyone stays about level. If you see one end of the scale is drooping you dont just drop **** on the other end or start pulling things off the heavy end, you add and subtract little pieces.


yeah I know what you mean and I know why they are doing it in that way. You know why ? Its all about marketing.. "If we slice whole process into smallest parts we will be able to sell it to the masses not ONE time but FOUR or even FIVE times" And of coz they will be doing blogs about balancing or even movies. Im sick of such a practices ... and I hope that they will fail on it. Coz this is too old trick on modern, fast market..
Xercodo
Cruor Angelicus
#35 - 2012-11-10 01:58:31 UTC
Keen Fallsword wrote:
Xercodo wrote:
Keen Fallsword wrote:
Jack Miton wrote:
you clearly dont work in IT and have never been part of a development process.


WRONG... Im working in game dev biz. some AAA titles under my belt. So you are wrong.. And yes they are working really slow.


And in which department?


Production


Right that's REALLY specific, are you a producer is what you mean to say? Do you actually ever touch any code or game stats in those AAA titles?

The Drake is a Lie
Keen Fallsword
Skyway Patrol
#36 - 2012-11-10 01:59:57 UTC
Xercodo wrote:
Justin Valentine wrote:
Oraac Ensor wrote:
Justin Valentine wrote:
Grow up

That's really rich coming from someone who is exhibiting all the patience of a 5-year-old.

Really so a 2 year time frame is good to fix some ship attributes?
Oh how impatient I am you are so correct. ****


Well I figured they're spending about a week per ship on average, not counting the capitals (and I could have got my math off on that) and a week per ship sounds about right for a schedule of spending several days working with numbers on paper, a few days of in house testing, and a few weeks of public testing and feedback, divided up among about half a dozen ships ships per a month's worth of man hours.


a week ? errr I cant imagine Full time Designer working on attributes of single ship for whole week !!
Xercodo
Cruor Angelicus
#37 - 2012-11-10 02:04:54 UTC
Keen Fallsword wrote:


yeah I know what you mean and I know why they are doing it in that way. You know why ? Its all about marketing.. "If we slice whole process into smallest parts we will be able to sell it to the masses not ONE time but FOUR or even FIVE times" And of coz they will be doing blogs about balancing or even movies. Im sick of such a practices ... and I hope that they will fail on it. Coz this is too old trick on modern, fast market..


Except that CCP doesn't earn anything extra from that sort of market practice. They aren't being like the dicks from EA that keep pumping out slightly better sports games every year. CCP runs on subscriptions, not by unit sales, so dragging out the process into chunks like this isn't of any real benefit to marketing. Their best approach would be to do it as soon as and as perfectly as possible so as to not destroy the existing player base with something stupid.

The Drake is a Lie
Xercodo
Cruor Angelicus
#38 - 2012-11-10 02:08:31 UTC
Keen Fallsword wrote:


a week ? errr I cant imagine Full time Designer working on attributes of single ship for whole week !!


Not directly, but if you take something like the T1 cruisers, 16 ships if they spend a few weeks doing numbers back and forth, a couple weeks testing them internally and then another month of fine tuning the numbers based on Duality and SiSi feedback then you can come out to a week per ship on average.

This is all conjecture though and I could have the numbers off by quite a bit.

The Drake is a Lie
Roll Sizzle Beef
Space Mutiny
#39 - 2012-11-10 02:34:19 UTC
Team Game of Drones is working on the Factional Warfare, Inventory improvements and iteration on top of the rebalancing frigates, destroyers and cruisers.
In june they started with attack frigs and rookie ships. 16 hulls.
5 months later they add 40 more revamped hulls, with initial plans already set and ready for BCs and BSs and t2 BC and t3 fleet subs before Rets even out.
Yeah, its not like their productivity hasn't skyrocketed for winter.
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