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Warfare & Tactics

 
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One last fix to make Faction Warfare benifit those who PVP.

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chatgris
Quantum Cats Syndicate
Of Essence
#41 - 2012-11-11 20:12:23 UTC  |  Edited by: chatgris
IHaveCandyGetInTheVan69 wrote:
chatgris wrote:
Yes - because mission running is a purely pve activity, no way for the opposing side to fail your mission (you can reject the one pickup missions that pays crap), and it makes far far more LP than the pvp activities (plexing).


Fair enough, I always understood it as LP from kills and plexing where just to help you along with the intention of missions being an income source.

I still maintain it would be better if none of it gave LP and missions were the only income source, funnily enough that was when plexing gave the best fights. At least then you could ignore people who were farming and you knew when someone was plexing they wanted a fight, now the two are far too blurred.


My ideal is not to have "farming" and "pvp" be separate activities, but to make ISK while pvping, so that boring farming isn't required (and farming is boring both the person farming, and the person who's trying to pvp).

It pretty much boils down to more people in pvp ships more of the time means more pvp.
IHaveCandyGetInTheVan69
Crouching Woman Hidden Cucumber
#42 - 2012-11-11 21:00:15 UTC
chatgris wrote:
It pretty much boils down to more people in pvp ships more of the time means more pvp.


Of course that is the ideal, I just don't think it is really viable. Hence I'm happy to accept the next best option where at least farming doesn't have a negative impact on PVP.

A) PVP pays for itself and yields GFs, but somehow farmers can't ruin it
B) PVPers PVP and farmers farm through 2 separate mechanics
C) Farmers inundate the 'PVP' areas for profit resulting in everyone being bored.

We have taken the step up from C to B, but I don't see how you can get A without people exploiting it. I don't see why we need to be paid for PVP anyway, it's not like that is directly the case in the rest of Eve.

To make an analogy to null, we fight for sovereignty which gives our pilots the ability to make money from ratting/anoms (missions)
Bouh Revetoile
In Wreck we thrust
#43 - 2012-11-12 01:27:14 UTC
You are already paid for pvp in factional warfare, though you cannot pay more than that, because then you would be able to exploit the mechanic.
X Gallentius
Black Eagle1
#44 - 2012-11-12 01:50:06 UTC
Cearain wrote:

I don't have a problem engaging versus multiple targets either. But I only occassionally suicide my ships.

XG your claim that you find decent solo pvp fights every 10 minutes just demonstrates how removed from reality your view is.
I'm the one with over 300 kills and losses each month - not you.
Cearain
Plus 10 NV
#45 - 2012-11-12 02:47:09 UTC
X Gallentius wrote:
Cearain wrote:

I don't have a problem engaging versus multiple targets either. But I only occassionally suicide my ships.

XG your claim that you find decent solo pvp fights every 10 minutes just demonstrates how removed from reality your view is.
I'm the one with over 300 kills and losses each month - not you.



Your killboard definitely shows you have allot more time to play computer games than I do. But it doesn't show you can get a decent solo fight every 10 minutes.

Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
Vaal Erit
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#46 - 2012-11-12 04:05:34 UTC
Maybe separate LP usable in the FW LP store from LP usable to upgrade/capture systems?

It looks like farmers are still having a big impact on FW occupancy and that's a shame.
Bienator II
madmen of the skies
#47 - 2012-11-12 04:25:22 UTC
wait. the tier influences mission lp payout? I thought (or better i really hoped) that CCP kept it as fixed reward.

how to fix eve: 1) remove ECM 2) rename dampeners to ECM 3) add new anti-drone ewar for caldari 4) give offgrid boosters ongrid combat value
Damar Rocarion
Nasranite Watch
#48 - 2012-11-12 05:38:16 UTC  |  Edited by: Damar Rocarion
Dread Operative wrote:
Use your alt to plex then you ninny. The reason is to stabilize FW item prices. Or how about you use your main, AND TAKE SOME SYSTEMS!!!!! Gasp!!!!


Why the f.ck I should do what you want when the option is to do what I want? And why would I engage in pointless activity where CCP already stacked the deck for your benefit like they have done for years now. Most likely you would whine for another change if for some reason you get permanently kicked from your Tier 4 and CCP would only be too happy to oblige.
Dread Operative
Lowlife.
Snuffed Out
#49 - 2012-11-12 06:11:32 UTC
Damar Rocarion wrote:
Dread Operative wrote:
Use your alt to plex then you ninny. The reason is to stabilize FW item prices. Or how about you use your main, AND TAKE SOME SYSTEMS!!!!! Gasp!!!!


Why the f.ck I should do what you want when the option is to do what I want? And why would I engage in pointless activity where CCP already stacked the deck for your benefit like they have done for years now. Most likely you would whine for another change if for some reason you get permanently kicked from your Tier 4 and CCP would only be too happy to oblige.


Well that's a bunch of QQ'ing right there. You're only permently kicked because YOU gave up. You don't see Happy Ending quitting, no, you see them taking systems and chasing out plexers. I've stayed in Gal Mil almost the whole time, even when we were getting stomped by the initial alt army and Ive never quit like you guys have. Guess its just a character thing.
Andiedeath
We Aim To MisBehave
Wild Geese.
#50 - 2012-11-12 09:36:40 UTC
Missions fill the gap for those that have time to play 24 hours a day or have very little pvp option around DT. Also some of the best PVP corps in milita run missions. Its the best way to get noobs into BCs for fleet ops. If they remove the bonus from missions you will loose 80% of your pvp and most players from the timezones were there is little pvp available.

Not everyone has the isk to setup t2 production, Null sec ratting bots/miners or PI WH alts...

I believe missions need to add to the contested amount of a system, like a complex... Also why do people complain about missions not producing PVP? The money generated by missions goes straight into buying ships for pvp for 90% of people.

Director

Sefem Velox

INGAME CHANNEL: Sefem Public
X Gallentius
Black Eagle1
#51 - 2012-11-12 09:37:38 UTC  |  Edited by: X Gallentius
IHaveCandyGetInTheVan69 wrote:
chatgris wrote:
It pretty much boils down to more people in pvp ships more of the time means more pvp.
Of course that is the ideal, I just don't think it is really viable. Hence I'm happy to accept the next best option where at least farming doesn't have a negative impact on PVP.
Minor, medium, and major outposts are perfect examples where people in pvp ships can farm and be available for fights at the same time - especially the minor and medium plexes. So, yes pve'ing in pvp ships is really viable. (And although a little more difficult, all of the plexes can be run in pvp ships if they are run in groups.)
X Gallentius
Black Eagle1
#52 - 2012-11-12 09:46:29 UTC  |  Edited by: X Gallentius
Schalac wrote:

Except that the way the plex mechanic worked at the start of Inferno was the same mechanic that was around for years. All they did was added LP for completing them. How people thought that this was going to drive more PvP is beyond me.
It's beyond Cearain too. Unfortunately for you both, PVP has picked up quite a bit since they implemented the LP for plexes policy. Check the killboards. Do you want to know why? People are farming plexes in pvp ships - more people are out in space and available for fights when they occur. (They are not out of theater or in pve ships trying to make isk)
IbanezLaney
The Church of Awesome
#53 - 2012-11-12 10:15:51 UTC
The tier bonus should not apply to missions.
80K lp is too much for how easy missions are.


What if an enemy enters your plex and you fight - the plex automatically closes and the lp pays to the pvp winner?
Multiple enemys would have to be cleared out too before the lp pays giving them a chance to grab the lp back.
That way people who want to sit and be bored going in circles still can - but the people willing to shoot stuff can 'take the plex' can do so while actively look for enemys plexing and helping sov by pvping.

To avoid alt farming the payout should only apply to ships killed the same size or larger that are fitted.
Make rigs and 60% of high slots fitted a requirement on the killed ships for the lp to pay to the winner.
Even if no LP is paid to the killer - the plex should still close after the kill - this would stop unfitted/gunless defensive plexing being used to abuse/exploit the system.

Kinda makes kills effect fw sov + pays the pewing fw people which is what many people seem to want.




https://soundcloud.com/ibanezlaney
Schalac
Apocalypse Reign
#54 - 2012-11-12 10:48:04 UTC
X Gallentius wrote:
Schalac wrote:

Except that the way the plex mechanic worked at the start of Inferno was the same mechanic that was around for years. All they did was added LP for completing them. How people thought that this was going to drive more PvP is beyond me.
It's beyond Cearain too. Unfortunately for you both, PVP has picked up quite a bit since they implemented the LP for plexes policy. Check the killboards. Do you want to know why? People are farming plexes in pvp ships - more people are out in space and available for fights when they occur. (They are not out of theater or in pve ships trying to make isk)

I plex the same way now that I did 3 years ago. Yet I still don't have people come at me unless they have a 3 or 4 to 1 advantage. So no, I don't see a boost to PvP from adding LP to plexes. And honestly I think that once the 4th rolls along I will have even less people come at me because I will have 4-5 armor AC pests sitting right on the warp in because I won't have to fly 70 KM to cap the point. So when that happens once again it will be gank squads of 20-30 frogs jumping my fleet saying GF... which isn't PvP.

SCHALAC HAS SPOKEN!! http://eveboard.com/pilot/Schalac
IHaveCandyGetInTheVan69
Crouching Woman Hidden Cucumber
#55 - 2012-11-12 11:00:59 UTC
I accept there is more PVP occurring now, I do not believe it is because of LP for plexes. There are more plexes now, because they don't just spawn at DT and there are more people in the militias, this is driving more PVP not the LP rewards for plexes.

I think the chance of getting a fight on a per plex per pilot basis is far far lower than it was when we had the post-DT plexing system, I don't have any numbers to back this up but I think the majority would agree with me (well those that play on the same server anyway)

Also I have little interest in ganking people who are trying to make money, as they are a pain in the ass to catch and result in a boring fight.
Damar Rocarion
Nasranite Watch
#56 - 2012-11-12 11:20:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Damar Rocarion
Dread Operative wrote:
Well that's a bunch of QQ'ing right there. You're only permently kicked because YOU gave up.


Interesting point of view. You do know everything about Eve is mathematics. Now, if one makes calculations and can reasonably assume that they can keep farmers out 8h a day and remaining 16h a day farmers will have free reign, how do you suggest a system will be held?

Answer: It wont be so why bother burning oneself out over it?

But hey, keep insisting system occupancy has anything to do with pvp and not with tz presence & farmer amount. You make more isk, therefore you have more farmers and occupancy warfare result will thus be pre-determined by CCP's will.

After all, what other reason there is that another 100 man alliance joined your side this downtime. To look for "good fights" in enviroment where they already outnumber the enemy 3:1 or 4:1?
Bad Messenger
Rehabilitation Clinic
#57 - 2012-11-12 12:15:38 UTC
Vordak Kallager wrote:
Bad Messenger wrote:
Hey , do not cry about FW missions.

Those are just what players wanted. On original FW version no one did those missions, but then comes militia CSM candidates who wanted good income for FW players to make isk for pvp, and we sure made isk after several boosts.

Sad thing is that no one has done any pvp after that.


No one did missions in pre-Inferno? What are you smoking?


you are so young player that you do not even know what i am talking about.
Crosi Wesdo
War and Order
#58 - 2012-11-12 12:17:01 UTC
Cearain wrote:
X Gallentius wrote:
Cearain wrote:

I don't have a problem engaging versus multiple targets either. But I only occassionally suicide my ships.

XG your claim that you find decent solo pvp fights every 10 minutes just demonstrates how removed from reality your view is.
I'm the one with over 300 kills and losses each month - not you.



Your killboard definitely shows you have allot more time to play computer games than I do. But it doesn't show you can get a decent solo fight every 10 minutes.



What is this **** about solo pvp? I think you are mistaking faction war for something else. You cannot make other people do what you want them to.

I advise you to leave faction war, make a 1 man corp and go drop cans outside trade hubs if all you want is a steady supply of solo pvp.
Bad Messenger
Rehabilitation Clinic
#59 - 2012-11-12 12:28:43 UTC
Dread Operative wrote:
Damar Rocarion wrote:
Dread Operative wrote:
Use your alt to plex then you ninny. The reason is to stabilize FW item prices. Or how about you use your main, AND TAKE SOME SYSTEMS!!!!! Gasp!!!!


Why the f.ck I should do what you want when the option is to do what I want? And why would I engage in pointless activity where CCP already stacked the deck for your benefit like they have done for years now. Most likely you would whine for another change if for some reason you get permanently kicked from your Tier 4 and CCP would only be too happy to oblige.


Well that's a bunch of QQ'ing right there. You're only permently kicked because YOU gave up. You don't see Happy Ending quitting, no, you see them taking systems and chasing out plexers. I've stayed in Gal Mil almost the whole time, even when we were getting stomped by the initial alt army and Ive never quit like you guys have. Guess its just a character thing.


Gallente is only who is taking systems.
Bad Messenger
Rehabilitation Clinic
#60 - 2012-11-12 12:37:44 UTC
X Gallentius wrote:
Schalac wrote:

Except that the way the plex mechanic worked at the start of Inferno was the same mechanic that was around for years. All they did was added LP for completing them. How people thought that this was going to drive more PvP is beyond me.
It's beyond Cearain too. Unfortunately for you both, PVP has picked up quite a bit since they implemented the LP for plexes policy. Check the killboards. Do you want to know why? People are farming plexes in pvp ships - more people are out in space and available for fights when they occur. (They are not out of theater or in pve ships trying to make isk)


Thing is that if you bring group of people who can dominate plex warfare those farmers with pvp ships are gone and no one can make them come back to die again and again.

FW still lack possibility to force enemy to fight, as you see LP for plexes is not really working, some caldari players may seek some pvp from gallente farmers but there is no real fight for systems.

This current system has different reasons for different side to plex.

If you want easy isk you join gallente side and farm.

If you want to roleplay caldari you join caldari and try to take systems with small rewards.

Now we can think why would role play reason work when it did not work before.