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Unintended effect of war on high sec?
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Zhade Lezte
#61 - 2012-11-09 19:39:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Zhade Lezte
Silk daShocka wrote:
Although I wont jump into the argument of null vs. high safety, I will point out that comparing mining barge losses in null vs. high would be more relevant to the discussion of ore prices as opposed the the total ship losses that include all ship types.

Losses per player are much higher in null due to large fleet engagements, there could be other reasons as well but I'm sure the large coalition fleet fights have a pretty big impact on the numbers. I don't think these types of engagements make flying a mining barge in blue space very dangerous. That's not to say that i'm claiming it's safe to fly a mining barge in null either, only that fleet battles generally don't take place in asteroid belts and afaik generally don't involve mining barges on either side.

I'm not sure how to go about pulling numbers for mining barge losses in different security zones, but I'd love to see the numbers if anyone wants to do some digging.


No, please do get involved. I'd love to see more people actually willing to look at and ask for numbers in this situation instead of the people making judgments about risk reward while ignoring ship loss statistics entirely because they got their hulk ganked in highsec or were part of an alliance that failed because they wouldn't protect their space and mined all day but *they* were safe, or otherwise basically pulling "statistics" out of their behind based on how they already feel about the issue.

You shouldn't entirely ignore those large fleet engagements when considering risk vs reward. These fights matter because if you keep losing them you lose your space and can't mine, rat, moon mine, whatever there anymore, even if you've managed to evade all hostiles while evacuating your ratting ship or miners from the lost space. You can't simply look at the individual risk like a player mining in empire could because owning sov is a team effort. Of course, this cost is spread among your alliance/allies as a whole, varying depending on how your alliance/coalition is set up.

I think that miner loss statistics of null vs. high would still be enlightening, but with eve-kill currently moving to a different server at the moment I can't even begin to try to figure out how to look that up and display it in a manageable form.
Shizuken
Venerated Stars
#62 - 2012-11-09 19:44:29 UTC
Malcanis wrote:


Simple solution: buff up Spodumain with low-end minerals so that it's worth ~85% of what Crokite is

Suddently those massive spodroids in the mining anomalies because useful and at least not utterly worthless to mine. Mining becomes popular in 0.0, and low-end minerals get supplied locally. 0.0 Industry becomes slightly less impractical. Tea and medals all round.


Even simpler would be to just double the amount of null mins it takes for all blueprints.
Jeremy Soikutsu
Kite Co. Space Trucking
#63 - 2012-11-09 19:52:49 UTC
Bohoba wrote:
I don't think drone land put out that much
They did.

"Of course you would choose the fun, but you don't lead a relevant entity which has allies." - Colonel Xaven
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#64 - 2012-11-10 05:53:36 UTC
Herr Hammer Draken wrote:
Arduemont wrote:
Malcanis wrote:
Simple solution: buff up Spodumain with low-end minerals so that it's worth ~85% of what Crokite is

Suddently those massive spodroids in the mining anomalies because useful and at least not utterly worthless to mine. Mining becomes popular in 0.0, and low-end minerals get supplied locally. 0.0 Industry becomes slightly less impractical. Tea and medals all round.


^^This.

My solution was to just make the mining anomalies have the low end minerals in Veld, Scordite etc. But that works.



I think more Veld and Scordite in null is the fix. You had it right the first time. Adding more rares in null does nothing economically if that rare stuff is no longer rare on the markets. That is the problem with nocxium, zydrine, and megacyte.


There are already unbelievable amounts of low ends in null.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#65 - 2012-11-10 05:55:06 UTC
Zhade Lezte wrote:
Silk daShocka wrote:
Although I wont jump into the argument of null vs. high safety, I will point out that comparing mining barge losses in null vs. high would be more relevant to the discussion of ore prices as opposed the the total ship losses that include all ship types.

Losses per player are much higher in null due to large fleet engagements, there could be other reasons as well but I'm sure the large coalition fleet fights have a pretty big impact on the numbers. I don't think these types of engagements make flying a mining barge in blue space very dangerous. That's not to say that i'm claiming it's safe to fly a mining barge in null either, only that fleet battles generally don't take place in asteroid belts and afaik generally don't involve mining barges on either side.

I'm not sure how to go about pulling numbers for mining barge losses in different security zones, but I'd love to see the numbers if anyone wants to do some digging.


No, please do get involved. I'd love to see more people actually willing to look at and ask for numbers in this situation instead of the people making judgments about risk reward while ignoring ship loss statistics entirely because they got their hulk ganked in highsec or were part of an alliance that failed because they wouldn't protect their space and mined all day but *they* were safe, or otherwise basically pulling "statistics" out of their behind based on how they already feel about the issue.

You shouldn't entirely ignore those large fleet engagements when considering risk vs reward. These fights matter because if you keep losing them you lose your space and can't mine, rat, moon mine, whatever there anymore, even if you've managed to evade all hostiles while evacuating your ratting ship or miners from the lost space. You can't simply look at the individual risk like a player mining in empire could because owning sov is a team effort. Of course, this cost is spread among your alliance/allies as a whole, varying depending on how your alliance/coalition is set up.

I think that miner loss statistics of null vs. high would still be enlightening, but with eve-kill currently moving to a different server at the moment I can't even begin to try to figure out how to look that up and display it in a manageable form.



This is a Good Post™

Well put, well argued, good sir.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#66 - 2012-11-10 05:56:57 UTC
Shizuken wrote:
Malcanis wrote:


Simple solution: buff up Spodumain with low-end minerals so that it's worth ~85% of what Crokite is

Suddently those massive spodroids in the mining anomalies because useful and at least not utterly worthless to mine. Mining becomes popular in 0.0, and low-end minerals get supplied locally. 0.0 Industry becomes slightly less impractical. Tea and medals all round.


Even simpler would be to just double the amount of null mins it takes for all blueprints.


That might not be so simple.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Surfin's PlunderBunny
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#67 - 2012-11-10 05:58:55 UTC
Malcanis wrote:
Shizuken wrote:
Malcanis wrote:


Simple solution: buff up Spodumain with low-end minerals so that it's worth ~85% of what Crokite is

Suddently those massive spodroids in the mining anomalies because useful and at least not utterly worthless to mine. Mining becomes popular in 0.0, and low-end minerals get supplied locally. 0.0 Industry becomes slightly less impractical. Tea and medals all round.


Even simpler would be to just double the amount of null mins it takes for all blueprints.


That might not be so simple.


Double the amount of everything for everything!

"Little ginger moron" ~David Hasselhoff 

Want to see what Surf is training or how little isk Surf has?  http://eveboard.com/pilot/Surfin%27s_PlunderBunny
Nexus Day
Lustrevik Trade and Travel Bureau
#68 - 2012-11-10 06:03:36 UTC
Let me translate what some of these peole are saying:

" I don't like the way other people play, and I would never play that way. Still I am going to let it effect my enjoyment of the game, even though what they do has little or no effect on me."
Nicolo da'Vicenza
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#69 - 2012-11-10 06:16:10 UTC
Nexus Day wrote:
Let me translate what some of these peole are saying:

" I don't like the way other people play, and I would never play that way. Still I am going to let it effect my enjoyment of the game, even though what they do has little or no effect on me."

hey it's the guy who thought giving every ship jump drives would limit force projection
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#70 - 2012-11-10 06:41:45 UTC
Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:
Nexus Day wrote:
Let me translate what some of these peole are saying:

" I don't like the way other people play, and I would never play that way. Still I am going to let it effect my enjoyment of the game, even though what they do has little or no effect on me."

hey it's the guy who thought giving every ship jump drives would limit force projection


Nicolo da'Vicenza you are the one-liner of my heart ♥

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016