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Jove and Genetic Manipulation

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Author
Teinyhr
Ourumur
#1 - 2012-11-07 16:29:50 UTC
...Just how good were they at it at the height of their civilization? Could they for example design a human being to any specification (from a supermodel to a deformed blob of flesh)?

Obviously, interested because of a fanfiction idea I have brewing in my head. And yes I know, it's fan fiction so I could make anything up I wanted, but just to bounce some ideas off of you all.
Dev answer clearly appreciated, but I'd take educated guesses at this stage.
CCP Eterne
C C P
C C P Alliance
#2 - 2012-11-07 16:41:35 UTC
There's nothing specifically laid out, but at their height they were pretty good at genetic modification. "Building" a person within a fairly regular range of human features would have been certainly possible, and splicing in genes from other creatures might have been something they'd experiment with, though it doesn't appear they dedicated significant resources to that on a racial level.

Super model to Karsoth would be a fair representation of their potential range of genetic mastery, I would imagine.

EVE Online/DUST 514 Community Representative ※ EVE Illuminati ※ Fiction Adept

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Teinyhr
Ourumur
#3 - 2012-11-07 17:20:06 UTC
Well, that was fast!

Thank you, this certainly gives me something to work with.
Romvex
TURN LEFT
#4 - 2012-11-09 22:41:59 UTC
considering how severely they damaged their genes, it was probably pretty intrusive. i would assume that they used it to cure disease and deformity, also maybe for cosmetic reasons. Also several of the small picture we have buried deep in old dev blogs and fiction show that they had transparent skin, were hairless and very short. doesn't sound too cosmetic to me, but it was probably caused by the disease.
Teinyhr
Ourumur
#5 - 2012-11-10 10:58:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Teinyhr
Romvex wrote:
considering how severely they damaged their genes, it was probably pretty intrusive. i would assume that they used it to cure disease and deformity, also maybe for cosmetic reasons. Also several of the small picture we have buried deep in old dev blogs and fiction show that they had transparent skin, were hairless and very short. doesn't sound too cosmetic to me, but it was probably caused by the disease.



According to Evelopedia they have grayish-yellow skin (not transparent) with larger veins very visible and are about four feet tall - I would guess it is because that is the only genetic makeup they dare to use, not to make their jovian disease worse. I haven't found any in-depth information about their reproduction but based on a tiny description under a picture, they've taken test-tube babies to the extreme, being grown in "fetus tubes."

The background fluff stated that they modified themselves to survive better in space ( genetic modification was their answer to everything at the height of their emprie), and I'm pretty sure curing things like cancer is pretty much a given. And yeah I agree with you, they probably did some pretty crazy things with their genes if they truly are irrepairable (even with normal, healthy humans they could compare their genetic makeup to, readily available).
Velarra
#6 - 2012-11-11 21:21:15 UTC
Here's a thought: Does pride keep the Jovians from biologically breeding with non-jovians? Particularly with an interest toward rehabilitating the Jovian genome & introducing new / healthier material into their profile?

Sure, non-jovians may be prone to cancer & various other impurities, but they may not suffer from the genetically crippling, inherited Jovian disease.

On the other hand, Abdiel Verat out in Curse does seem to vaguely imply at one point that (a veiled something) ( i read as Jovian disease) can be transmitted to select targets.
Teinyhr
Ourumur
#7 - 2012-11-12 06:59:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Teinyhr
Velarra wrote:
Here's a thought: Does pride keep the Jovians from biologically breeding with non-jovians? Particularly with an interest toward rehabilitating the Jovian genome & introducing new / healthier material into their profile?


I guess the problem is that they might not have the "right parts." As said, they're bred in devices known as fetus tubes, and have been for millennia (Stargate Åsgard anyone?) so they're all essentially clones. Also for all we know, their genetic makeup might be so different that even if they had the right parts, we just might be too genetically different to interbreed by normal means.

You would think they have explored normal humans and their genome in an effort to fix their own. But maybe they're just too prideful to use "mudblood" genes?
Pottsey
Enheduanni Foundation
#8 - 2012-11-18 09:43:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Pottsey
One thing you have to know about the Jove is they are split into many very different groups. Some groups do not use and shun cybernetics for example The Jove Unsullied group rejected further generic experiments. Yet on the opposite end of the spectrum you have Jove Puritan’s who will do anything to go back to the old days. They will try out ever-more outrageous genetic engineering stunts, often with quite unexpected results.

The standard Jove did not have 100% mastery of genetics and the human brain but are advanced enough to make changes and add lobes. The Enheduanni who appear to be a group of Elite Jove or more an offshoot from the Jove appear to have complete mastery of genetics and the human brain able to make fully functional humans with false memory’s as sleeper agents.
Below is official lore on some of the Jove groups.


Jove Statics

The different branches of Jovians that exist are not the result of variations in geographical or climatic differences, but rather that of genetic engineering through the centuries. The Statics are one of the two main branches. Statics are generally introvert and prefer status quo, both socially and biologically. The Statics regard themselves as observers that should interfere as little as possible with the world. They believe that they are as genetically evolved as can be and generally frown upon large-scale genetic engineering programs.

The male part of the Statics is often aloof and condescending. They are the biggest hoarders of knowledge there is, but they enjoy sitting on their knowledge like dragons on gold, reveling in the knowledge of their own importance. Fortunately, they rarely use their power to influence world events.

The female part of the Statics is more open and friendly to outsiders. Though they are driven by curiosity the same as their male counterparts, they don't have the pathological need to sit on it by themselves and are generally quite willing to share in their discoveries. Female Statics pass for what can be termed leaders in the Jovian Empire; other Jovians acknowledge that their stable nature and extensive knowledge makes them best suited for the task.


Jove Modifiers

The different branches of Jovians that exist are not the result of variations in geographical or climatic differences, but rather that of genetic engineering through the centuries. The Modifiers are the enthusiasts of the Jovian family. They are curious and constantly willing to try or experience something new and fresh. Modifiers have lower life expectancy that other Jovians and are more susceptible to the dreaded Jovian Disease. It seems that by constantly living on the edge makes them burn out faster.

Jove Modifiers
Male Modifiers are constantly in search of something new and different and can never stay in the same place for long. They're fickle and undisciplined compared to other Jovians and are prone to manic-depression. They are also the most reckless, which most often takes them into trouble, but sometimes it results in some spectacular new discovery that would otherwise never have been found.

Female Modifiers are renowned within the Jovian Empire for their constant body enhancing experiments. More than any other group, female Modifiers are taking genetic engineering to the extreme and back. There is little rhyme or reasons in their experiments, as they're most often done on individual level. Although the results are often disastrous many Jovians put more stock in the chaotic gene therapies of the female Modifiers for finding cure to the Jovian Disease than the more respectable formal research teams.


Elders
The Elders were one of the first groups to use genetic engineering for a special purpose, namely that of slowing the aging process. Once, the Elders were a prominent political force in the Jovian society, but after they brought about the fall of the first Jovian empire they have become more reclusive. Elders can become many centuries old, it's uncertain exactly how old they can become, but some suggest they can outlive even members of the Amarrian royal families.



Unsullied
Genetic engineering has through the centuries transformed Jovian society in every aspect imaginable. Many Jovians believe that enough has been done. The Unsullied is a group of Jovians that have rejected further generic experiments and instead adopt conventional methods to deal with sickness and old age. They are advocates of cyber-implants and want to use machines instead of genes in the search for better life.
Pottsey
Enheduanni Foundation
#9 - 2012-11-18 09:43:28 UTC
Existentialists
The Existentialists are the most energetic and vociferous Jovian group. They live for the moment and are always ready to experiment, even with their own bodies. To them, nothing is sacred. The Existentialists tend to have little to do with the other races, as they find them boring and uninspiring.


Puritan
Many Jovians dream of returning to their genetic roots, now long since lost during the Shrouded Days. Those that are most active in their search for the 'untainted' Jovian genes are called the Puritans. In the hope of cleansing the nation of the Jovian Disease the Puritans try out ever-more outrageous genetic engineering stunts, often with quite unexpected results. But unlike the Existentialists the genetic engineering of the Puritans has the specific aim to return the human element to the Jovians, instead of being just narcissistic in nature.



Lab Rat
All Jovians are artificially conceived. In most cases a family unit is involved, donating genes, taking care of the rearing and so on, but this is not always so. Often, persons are conceived for some altruist reasons, usually research purposes. These Jovians are treated the same as everyone else, but they tend to be a little 'off', due to the clinical way of their conceivement.


Stasis People
For many Jovians their race is in the twilight of their greatness. Ever since the fall of the first empire the Jovian society have been in a slow, stead
Ashlar Vellum
Esquire Armaments
#10 - 2012-12-12 01:23:20 UTC
Not perfectly on topic, but here is a picture of after incarna jove klickedy.(if you didn't see it, you should)
Tavin Aikisen
Phoenix Naval Operations
Phoenix Naval Systems
#11 - 2012-12-12 03:09:21 UTC
Ashlar Vellum wrote:
Not perfectly on topic, but here is a picture of after incarna jove klickedy.(if you didn't see it, you should)



Source?! Shocked

"Remember this. Trust your eyes, you will kill each other. Trust your veins, you can all go home."

-Cold Wind

Publius Valerius
AirGuard
LowSechnaya Sholupen
#12 - 2012-12-12 05:36:30 UTC
Tavin Aikisen wrote:
Ashlar Vellum wrote:
Not perfectly on topic, but here is a picture of after incarna jove klickedy.(if you didn't see it, you should)



Source?! Shocked



There was ones a presentation from torfi were he mention them as Jove, sadly I cant find it.

But there were also short in the last fanfest vid:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j9Ozvef7CvQ#t=2h13m47s

I would love to have those classes ingame. See here:

http://www.colbertnation.com/the-colbert-report-videos/376566/march-07-2011/joshua-foer

Qvar Dar'Zanar
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#13 - 2012-12-12 13:51:30 UTC
Ashlar Vellum wrote:
Not perfectly on topic, but here is a picture of after incarna jove klickedy.(if you didn't see it, you should)


Fringe baldies Lol
Silivar Karkun
Doomheim
#14 - 2012-12-12 14:24:56 UTC
Teinyhr wrote:
Romvex wrote:
considering how severely they damaged their genes, it was probably pretty intrusive. i would assume that they used it to cure disease and deformity, also maybe for cosmetic reasons. Also several of the small picture we have buried deep in old dev blogs and fiction show that they had transparent skin, were hairless and very short. doesn't sound too cosmetic to me, but it was probably caused by the disease.



According to Evelopedia they have grayish-yellow skin (not transparent) with larger veins very visible and are about four feet tall - I would guess it is because that is the only genetic makeup they dare to use, not to make their jovian disease worse. I haven't found any in-depth information about their reproduction but based on a tiny description under a picture, they've taken test-tube babies to the extreme, being grown in "fetus tubes."

The background fluff stated that they modified themselves to survive better in space ( genetic modification was their answer to everything at the height of their emprie), and I'm pretty sure curing things like cancer is pretty much a given. And yeah I agree with you, they probably did some pretty crazy things with their genes if they truly are irrepairable (even with normal, healthy humans they could compare their genetic makeup to, readily available).


so.......they have progeria?
Ashlar Vellum
Esquire Armaments
#15 - 2012-12-12 17:42:17 UTC
Tavin Aikisen wrote:
Ashlar Vellum wrote:
Not perfectly on topic, but here is a picture of after incarna jove klickedy.(if you didn't see it, you should)



Source?! Shocked


There was a presentation by Torfi in Moscow if I'm not mistaken. Yep here is a link, pic is from there. (15.10)

btw there was an enormous pdf made by players about jove, sleepers and other stuff, but I can't find it anywhere can anyone share the link.
Publius Valerius
AirGuard
LowSechnaya Sholupen
#16 - 2012-12-12 21:09:20 UTC
Ashlar Vellum wrote:
Tavin Aikisen wrote:
Ashlar Vellum wrote:
Not perfectly on topic, but here is a picture of after incarna jove klickedy.(if you didn't see it, you should)



Source?! Shocked


There was a presentation by Torfi in Moscow if I'm not mistaken. Yep here is a link, pic is from there. (15.10)

btw there was an enormous pdf made by players about jove, sleepers and other stuff, but I can't find it anywhere can anyone share the link.


+1 that was the presentation which I meant. Thx Ashlar.


By the way also +1 for Pottsey. I almost forgot that we have already infos about two bloodlines: Jove Statics and Modifiers. I hope that CCP thoes one day include a third bloodline, which is in a way genetic engineering that they use copper proteins (Hämocyanin) for carring oxygen. We need some blue blood. Lol

I could imagen something like the Chiss in Star Wars or a Nebari the in Farscape.

CCP I have one open charackter slot.... plz give me something BLUE P

I would love to have those classes ingame. See here:

http://www.colbertnation.com/the-colbert-report-videos/376566/march-07-2011/joshua-foer

Istvaan Shogaatsu
Guiding Hand Social Club
#17 - 2012-12-13 00:04:25 UTC
Velarra wrote:
Here's a thought: Does pride keep the Jovians from biologically breeding with non-jovians? Particularly with an interest toward rehabilitating the Jovian genome & introducing new / healthier material into their profile?

Sure, non-jovians may be prone to cancer & various other impurities, but they may not suffer from the genetically crippling, inherited Jovian disease.

On the other hand, Abdiel Verat out in Curse does seem to vaguely imply at one point that (a veiled something) ( i read as Jovian disease) can be transmitted to select targets.


I don't think it is a matter of pride, so much as compatibility. I have a bunch of theories about this. One of them involves the Minmatar Voluval ritual.

The Jovians have excellent standing with the Minmatar Republic. They've fiddled with the Minmatar leader's body and mind, and I suspect that's not the only fiddling they've done. Look at the Voluval from an analytical standpoint. A Shaman injects a candidate with a mysterious solution that interacts with their genes, and portrays their traits on their skin via the Voluval mark.

Now, if I were a superior species running out of ways to multiply, due to a ravaged genetic code, I wouldn't try to repair the damage directly... I'd rather try to culture a fresh, original sample of what the genetic code looked like before I wrecked it with millenia of tampering, and see if it can't be used to somehow inject "fresh blood" into the mix. I'd try to see where the Jovian experiments went wrong, and breed a new generation of Jovians that aren't crippled by their disease.

So, I culture a few breeding pairs of humans as they looked way back when. I seed them on habitable planets throughout space, and encourage them to be fruitful and multiply. Some time later, I introduce a ritual to the primitive culture: without granting them the understanding behind the science of it, I teach them to segregate themselves based on desirable and undesirable traits. In this ritual, an undesirable trait is "a Bad Mark" and leads to exile or execution, limiting the spread of that genetic material, while desirable traits are bestowed with "a Good Mark" - which boosts the desirable individual's social standing and likelihood of propagating his genes.

In short, my theory is that the Minmatar Republic exists as breeding stock for the Jovians. An experiment in cultivating a human body and spirit that will always struggle to improve its lot, regardless of hardship, rather than grow weary of godhood and ennui and slowly plunge into an irreversible and lethal depression, as the Jovians do.

Now, where do I download hot interracial Brutor-on-Jovian porn...
Romvex
TURN LEFT
#18 - 2012-12-13 00:11:20 UTC
Istvaan Shogaatsu wrote:
Velarra wrote:
Here's a thought: Does pride keep the Jovians from biologically breeding with non-jovians? Particularly with an interest toward rehabilitating the Jovian genome & introducing new / healthier material into their profile?

Sure, non-jovians may be prone to cancer & various other impurities, but they may not suffer from the genetically crippling, inherited Jovian disease.

On the other hand, Abdiel Verat out in Curse does seem to vaguely imply at one point that (a veiled something) ( i read as Jovian disease) can be transmitted to select targets.


I don't think it is a matter of pride, so much as compatibility. I have a bunch of theories about this. One of them involves the Minmatar Voluval ritual.

The Jovians have excellent standing with the Minmatar Republic. They've fiddled with the Minmatar leader's body and mind, and I suspect that's not the only fiddling they've done. Look at the Voluval from an analytical standpoint. A Shaman injects a candidate with a mysterious solution that interacts with their genes, and portrays their traits on their skin via the Voluval mark.

Now, if I were a superior species running out of ways to multiply, due to a ravaged genetic code, I wouldn't try to repair the damage directly... I'd rather try to culture a fresh, original sample of what the genetic code looked like before I wrecked it with millenia of tampering, and see if it can't be used to somehow inject "fresh blood" into the mix. I'd try to see where the Jovian experiments went wrong, and breed a new generation of Jovians that aren't crippled by their disease.

So, I culture a few breeding pairs of humans as they looked way back when. I seed them on habitable planets throughout space, and encourage them to be fruitful and multiply. Some time later, I introduce a ritual to the primitive culture: without granting them the understanding behind the science of it, I teach them to segregate themselves based on desirable and undesirable traits. In this ritual, an undesirable trait is "a Bad Mark" and leads to exile or execution, limiting the spread of that genetic material, while desirable traits are bestowed with "a Good Mark" - which boosts the desirable individual's social standing and likelihood of propagating his genes.

In short, my theory is that the Minmatar Republic exists as breeding stock for the Jovians. An experiment in cultivating a human body and spirit that will always struggle to improve its lot, regardless of hardship, rather than grow weary of godhood and ennui and slowly plunge into an irreversible and lethal depression, as the Jovians do.

Now, where do I download hot interracial Brutor-on-Jovian porn...

wow, i've actually never thought of it like that. this may explain the amarr/jove war. You don't ant anybody enslaving your livestock now do you?
Silivar Karkun
Doomheim
#19 - 2012-12-13 01:02:05 UTC
Romvex wrote:
Istvaan Shogaatsu wrote:
Velarra wrote:
Here's a thought: Does pride keep the Jovians from biologically breeding with non-jovians? Particularly with an interest toward rehabilitating the Jovian genome & introducing new / healthier material into their profile?

Sure, non-jovians may be prone to cancer & various other impurities, but they may not suffer from the genetically crippling, inherited Jovian disease.

On the other hand, Abdiel Verat out in Curse does seem to vaguely imply at one point that (a veiled something) ( i read as Jovian disease) can be transmitted to select targets.


I don't think it is a matter of pride, so much as compatibility. I have a bunch of theories about this. One of them involves the Minmatar Voluval ritual.

The Jovians have excellent standing with the Minmatar Republic. They've fiddled with the Minmatar leader's body and mind, and I suspect that's not the only fiddling they've done. Look at the Voluval from an analytical standpoint. A Shaman injects a candidate with a mysterious solution that interacts with their genes, and portrays their traits on their skin via the Voluval mark.

Now, if I were a superior species running out of ways to multiply, due to a ravaged genetic code, I wouldn't try to repair the damage directly... I'd rather try to culture a fresh, original sample of what the genetic code looked like before I wrecked it with millenia of tampering, and see if it can't be used to somehow inject "fresh blood" into the mix. I'd try to see where the Jovian experiments went wrong, and breed a new generation of Jovians that aren't crippled by their disease.

So, I culture a few breeding pairs of humans as they looked way back when. I seed them on habitable planets throughout space, and encourage them to be fruitful and multiply. Some time later, I introduce a ritual to the primitive culture: without granting them the understanding behind the science of it, I teach them to segregate themselves based on desirable and undesirable traits. In this ritual, an undesirable trait is "a Bad Mark" and leads to exile or execution, limiting the spread of that genetic material, while desirable traits are bestowed with "a Good Mark" - which boosts the desirable individual's social standing and likelihood of propagating his genes.

In short, my theory is that the Minmatar Republic exists as breeding stock for the Jovians. An experiment in cultivating a human body and spirit that will always struggle to improve its lot, regardless of hardship, rather than grow weary of godhood and ennui and slowly plunge into an irreversible and lethal depression, as the Jovians do.

Now, where do I download hot interracial Brutor-on-Jovian porn...

wow, i've actually never thought of it like that. this may explain the amarr/jove war. You don't ant anybody enslaving your livestock now do you?


then what about the Caldari?, even before the technnology interchange for the cloning and capsuleer tech, the Jovians had good relations with the Caldari State...
Istvaan Shogaatsu
Guiding Hand Social Club
#20 - 2012-12-13 02:35:35 UTC
Caldari, Gallente, Amarr... separate cultures in one big petri dish called New Eden. I operate under the assumption that the four races in existence today, are the product of Jovian social engineering in the distant past. The Amarr had their Sefrim in ancient history, the Minmatar received Jovian aid during the rebellion, and more recently, there's the Caldari and the Jovian "gift" of capsules.

I figure it's for a reason. The Jovians appear to be hell-bent on ensuring one thing: balance. They don't want their four pet cultures to start wiping each other out completely. If one is imperiled, the Jovians tip the scales in their favor. They want to preserve the experiment to its conclusion.

This suggests to me that the four younger races of New Eden each represent a human quality the Jovians want to recapture, having lost it along with the rest of their humanity. Perhaps each is an experiment in what gives humans the willpower to go on? The Amarr have their faith, and it makes them strong. The Caldari have their unity, and it makes them strong. The Gallente have their diversity, and the Minmatar have their yearning for freedom and resistance to oppression.

The experiment is almost over.
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