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Rigs that add a high, med or low slot to your ship

Author
Reaver Glitterstim
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#21 - 2012-11-07 22:26:31 UTC
Val'Dore wrote:
Fair points overall, I suppose it would depend on what the drawback is.
Firstly, rig slots aren't worth as much as highs, mids, and lows for the most part. In fact they're worth so much less that I think simply being allowed to slide your slots around without gaining any overall is worth giving up rig slots to do. I could accept a tech 2 rig moving 2 slots. They're so expensive anyway, and cost more calibration too.

After some thought, I think maybe it'd be alright to change a mid or low slot out to get another highslot. Highslots are very useful, but you also have to realize the really cool items you put in these cost a lot of either powergrid or CPU generally. The exception to this might be capital ships and cloaking devices, and maybe a few other instances with cloaks. To be fair, I think capital ships should be required to fit a capital cloaking device to cloak anyway.

FT Diomedes: "Reaver, sometimes I wonder what you are thinking when you sit down to post."

Frostys Virpio: "We have to give it to him that he does put more effort than the vast majority in his idea but damn does it sometime come out of nowhere."

Angeal MacNova
Holefood Inc.
Warriors of the Blood God
#22 - 2012-11-08 00:16:33 UTC
All this talk of balance...

If only one type of ship or only one race could use them then ya, unbalanced.

Take a close look at what this would do....

T1

You use up a rig slot and in return you lose a high, med, or low slot and gain a high, med, or low depending on the specific rig.
The only effect it would have on hardpoints is if you remove a high and now you have less high slots than you do hardpoints.
The "no stacking" would refer to what you gain. Thus, if you equip a rig that converts a med to a low, you can not equip another mid to low nor can you equip a high to low. You can't exceed 8 of any one group no matter what.

So the navy has more slots? Then it will still have more slots. That doesn't change.

Something like this, that is applied to all ships across the board, would maintain balance. It's like having a scale that is balanced and then adding 100 grams to both sides.

Val'Dore is right. There is a classic case of chicken little syndrome going on here.

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HELLBOUNDMAN
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#23 - 2012-11-08 01:26:02 UTC
I like the idea.

However, consider this.

Rigs

Allowing for the addition of more slots causes a bit of an imbalance.
So, how about this.

Instead of rigs adding slots, they instead recalibrate slots to be used in a different sector.

So, the rigs would be

high to mid
high to low
mid to high
mid to low
low to high
low to mid

They would simply be called Re-allocation rigs.

CANNOT fit rigs removing from the same slot.

So you can't pull 2 highs, and put them in mid or low.
Same for mids and lows
However, you can pull a high to a mid and a low to a mid, or whatever combination.

However, a t2 would be capable of pulling 2 slots to any position, however, you would only be able to fit one t2 of any type.

t1 rigs would be 150 calibration
t2 would be 250 calibration

This would mean that a t1 ship with 400 calibration points would be capable of fitting two t1's, and would have 100 calibration left. A t2 would allow 150 points left for 2 more rigs, which might limit what it could fit, but but not in a crippling manner.

T1's in my mind would be good for ships like the raven, which could drop a high and low in order to fit more mids for pve, or possibly more utility in pvp.

t2 would be good for ships like the Golem in pve to drop high slots for those of us that don't salvage in order to fit more mids for tank/utility, and would be good for ships the the rattlesnake to drop highs for more utility mids in pvp.

These rigs could possibly help to allow more ships to be seen in pvp that typically have limited use due to low utility or a generally bad slot layout...

That said though, if CCP balances most of the ships well enough, then we won't really need anything to reallocate slots.
Daichi Yamato
Jabbersnarks and Wonderglass
#24 - 2012-11-19 21:05:53 UTC
Angeal MacNova wrote:


Quote:
but the fact that every high slot is hard rendered on ship models. suddenly more slots means either invisible turrets, or things just floating where they shouldn't.


Once again....The number of turrets and launchers are limited by the number of hardpoints.



Roll...take a domi, add high slot rigs and then fit two salvagers...suddenly salvagers floating where they shouldnt or just plain invisible

do we have to spell everything out?

EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided"

Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs

Daichi Yamato
Jabbersnarks and Wonderglass
#25 - 2012-11-19 21:18:16 UTC
Reaver Glitterstim wrote:
Danika Princip wrote:
I'm pretty sure that if you have to warp out of a level four, you're doing something wrong anyway.


How I make money is up to me, but I'm well aware that one does not simply take on level 4 missions in tech 1 battleships with no faction or higher mods and never warp out. I'm not doing anything wrong, and if you insist you can do better, then you're a liar.


lol most T1 battleships can manage with T2 fits...no warp outs. u probably are doing something wrong. if u need a fit, drop me a mail

EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided"

Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs

Reaver Glitterstim
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#26 - 2012-11-21 03:23:19 UTC
Daichi Yamato wrote:
lol most T1 battleships can manage with T2 fits...no warp outs. u probably are doing something wrong. if u need a fit, drop me a mail
So many people claim this so often, but I watch pilot after pilot running level 4 missions and it's so common that they have to warp out. Based on what I've seen, I'd say I do pretty substantially above average on level 4 missions with t1 ships.

FT Diomedes: "Reaver, sometimes I wonder what you are thinking when you sit down to post."

Frostys Virpio: "We have to give it to him that he does put more effort than the vast majority in his idea but damn does it sometime come out of nowhere."

Seranova Farreach
Biomass Negative
#27 - 2012-11-21 03:49:20 UTC
Angeal MacNova wrote:
Not that bad of an idea.

But why not....

Tech 1 adds one and has T1 calibration cost.
Tech 2 adds two and has T2 calibration cost.

Limitations

You can not use more than one of the same type.
You can not exceed 8 slots.

Since we are talking slots and not mounting points, you can not exceed the number of turrets and launchers that the ship is otherwise capable of using.



brillient idea

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Michael Harari
Genos Occidere
HYDRA RELOADED
#28 - 2012-11-21 04:04:17 UTC
Gangname Style wrote:
wtb mach with 8 guns.


Why would you want that? Plenty of people drop a gun already so they can have a smartbomb and a neut.
Zan Shiro
Doomheim
#29 - 2012-11-21 06:28:06 UTC
De'Veldrin wrote:
Val'Dore wrote:
De'Veldrin wrote:
Val'Dore wrote:
A lot of Chicken Littles in this thread. I like it, adding another slot doesn't add weapons, fitting, and takes another potential rig off the table. As long as you can't go over 8 slots, it should be fine. As for the difference between a T1 and T2... well the T1s add one slot to a given layer, but the T2s might give two layers an additional slot.


No,it's not chicken littles - it's people that understand that game balance trumps cool.


Well, maybe you should demonstrate how unbalancing slot rigs would be on the ship of your choice.

People used to say rigs themselves were imbalanced or double bonuses on ships.


Imagine a widow that can fit a proper buffer armor tank in the lows, leaving the mids open for 6-7 bonused ECM modules.
Or a dread that can fit a full weapon's rack, the siege module AND a cloak (no need to choose now mom!).
Have fun ganking that orca with the triple armor plates in the lows (or the one that fits four or five warp core stabs).
Also, WTB a Nightmare that can fit three heatsinks and three tracking mods in the lows.

I won't even get into how OP this would make T3s. Or the tier 3 battle cruisers.

I am sure people can come up with a few more that are worse.

tl;dr: CCP balances the ships based on their slots and slot layouts (combined with fitting attributes like CPU and PG). Monkeying with one of those numbers tosses the idea of ship balance right out the window.



this basically. Not even gonna hit the high slot/mount point Stuff. IMO its not the highs that imba ships in a heart beat. Imo, its the mids and lows. 8 gun BS of doom is limited by its support low/mid mods. Want the deeps, tank is taking the hit at the most basic level for armour tankers. LR snipe has sebo killing something to target at range (rokh/naga this would be tank for example).

I know where this idea is going....the caveat of no more hard points given so easily makes its clear. Its going to jsut one more gyro/mag stab/heat sink. Or one more plate/resist. thats where the imba comes in. Want one more heat sink...pull a plate. Vice this happening and now you get gank boats that actually tank well.
Commander Ted
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#30 - 2012-11-21 07:55:47 UTC
Thinking id get a low slot rig on a armor thorax fit a reactor control and upgrade to neutrons.

Mid slot rig on any armor tanking and roll dual tracking disruptors

High slot rigs on a curse and get moar neuts

Midslot on a falcon for an extra jammer

high slots on a logistics for extra reppers

FUCKIN MIDSLOT ON MY COERCER FOR A POINT

Midslot on a griffon for more jams

Lowslot on any armor tanker and fit two 800's to save grid

Midslots on a shield ruppy giving it some ewar making it more OP

To hard to balance. Slots> rigs and some things like more ewar on armor tankers are just to OP





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Val'Dore
PlanetCorp InterStellar
#31 - 2012-11-21 13:42:02 UTC
What if you needed to burn 2 rig slots to relocate one slot? Say you have two new rig sets:

Slot Delete and Slot Reallocate

Your Delete Rig can be a Mid or Low Delete and your Reallocate Rig can be for either a Mid or a Low. Deny High Slot involvement entirely.

Star Jump Drive A new way to traverse the galaxy.

I invented Tiericide

Daichi Yamato
Jabbersnarks and Wonderglass
#32 - 2012-11-21 16:13:39 UTC
Reaver Glitterstim wrote:
Daichi Yamato wrote:
lol most T1 battleships can manage with T2 fits...no warp outs. u probably are doing something wrong. if u need a fit, drop me a mail
So many people claim this so often, but I watch pilot after pilot running level 4 missions and it's so common that they have to warp out. Based on what I've seen, I'd say I do pretty substantially above average on level 4 missions with t1 ships.


then they are also doing it wrong, or have started flying battleships that cannot fit a T2 tank. that happens alot

EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided"

Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs

Daichi Yamato
Jabbersnarks and Wonderglass
#33 - 2012-11-21 16:16:32 UTC  |  Edited by: Daichi Yamato
Val'Dore wrote:
What if you needed to burn 2 rig slots to relocate one slot? Say you have two new rig sets:

Slot Delete and Slot Reallocate

Your Delete Rig can be a Mid or Low Delete and your Reallocate Rig can be for either a Mid or a Low. Deny High Slot involvement entirely.


a nice nerf to the idea, but we are still talking about ridiculous e-war ships. last i heard the falcon was overpowered with 7 mids...giving it 8 will cause squirrels to cry tears of blood

edit-also thinking about it more, taking two rigs is probably unecessary. just give it ridiculous calibration costs for the same effect

EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided"

Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs

Crimeo Khamsi
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#34 - 2012-11-21 18:47:25 UTC
I like the idea somebody brought up of using rigs to SHIFT a slot from low to mid, for example (not adding new ones). Possibly a maximum of one per ship?
Recoil IV
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#35 - 2012-11-21 19:20:06 UTC
yes!
Val'Dore
PlanetCorp InterStellar
#36 - 2012-11-22 01:10:45 UTC
Daichi Yamato wrote:
Val'Dore wrote:
What if you needed to burn 2 rig slots to relocate one slot? Say you have two new rig sets:

Slot Delete and Slot Reallocate

Your Delete Rig can be a Mid or Low Delete and your Reallocate Rig can be for either a Mid or a Low. Deny High Slot involvement entirely.


a nice nerf to the idea, but we are still talking about ridiculous e-war ships. last i heard the falcon was overpowered with 7 mids...giving it 8 will cause squirrels to cry tears of blood

edit-also thinking about it more, taking two rigs is probably unecessary. just give it ridiculous calibration costs for the same effect


Well, I think a Falcon is probably going to be considered OP even if it only had 5 mids.

Star Jump Drive A new way to traverse the galaxy.

I invented Tiericide

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