Player Features and Ideas Discussion

Everything about k-space and w-space is identical except for local c/d

And it works both ways. Absolute Local removes all doubt, which is always bad for PvP.

We fly ships in space. It would make sense that chat be a form of communications within the game.

I kinda like the idea but if I could just expand on it....


Each system should have one of those satellite dishes that can often be seen, especially in missions. These are destructible but attempting to do so in high sec will bring down the wrath of Concord. In low, they can be replaced by player owned ones (a lot like the orbiting customs offices around planets). They are linked together to form a network. Whether or not they continue to just show local or they work together to make up one EVE wide general chat is yet to be determined. Which ever way is best. Perhaps they can keep the local chat and introduce a new universe wide general chat.

Null may have npc ones or those systems could just have an empty slot (in a manner of speaking) that can be use to place a pc one.

What do these do and why would you want to replace an NPC one with one of your own?

They are responsible for local chat. If you take one within a system down, that system has no local chat. If you replace it with one that is owned by a player/corp/alliance, a small fee can be charged per message sent with filtering options on who will be charged.

Then there are ones for POS's. These are for the corp chat. Only one is needed but having more than one means that you won't have a corp chat black out from losing just one POS.

Alliance chat works by upgrading the Corporation Communications Array to an Alliance Communications Array which would have a higher PWG and CPU drain on the control tower. You can upgrade without being in an alliance but until you are in an alliance with another corp who also has one of these active, you only have corp chat.

Individual ships. Individual ships have an onboard comms system. This system is used to connect to the arrays but can also connect directly to other ships within the same system. It is this direct link between ships that makes up fleet chat. The exception being capital ships. Cap ships, because of their need to use a jump drives, have a special onboard comms system that will connect to other ships in fleet directly up to their maximum jump distance away.

This brings me to cloaked ships. There should be a toggle for turning on and off onboard comms at will. To cloak completely, you have to turn off your onboard comms. Cloaking but leaving them on may make you invisible and non-targetable but you still show up on d-scan and combat probe scans as well as showing up in local. Only when you turn the onboard system off will you be truly invisible. This does not mean that uncloaked ships can go undetected by d-scan and combat probe scan by turning off their onboard system, it just means the person wont show on local. So for those that cloak, yes, if you cloak and turn off your onboard comms you will truly be hidden. You won't even show up on local.

But

Having your comms off (read 'running silent') also means that you don't have access to any comms at all. You can't use local, fleet, corp, alliance, etc. You don't even get to see who is in these chats just as they don't get to see you.

The unavoidable work around to all this being a third party program such as teamspeak.

Well shucks, that's too bad, isn't it, since "those other things" are what makes WH local actually work. If nullsec local had worked like they had in WHs, given today's rewards, then nobody would bother ratting, mining etc, because it would be functionally ******** to bother. They'd be much, much better served with sticking to hisec L4s or moving to WHs proper.


It's "bad for PVP" in your head, whereas the removal of "absolute local" would mean nullsec would become more depopulated than it already is, and in the real world this means "less PVP", which I think anyone would classify as "bad for PVP".

Yes, yes, I know, people like you are just absolutely salivating at the idea of how easy it will be to get kills while you roam around cloaked, but that'll last for a few days at the most, and then it'll be worse. I.e. the classic **** your pants to keep warm syndrome.

Care to try to turn this from a slippery slope argument into something which even vaguely resembles a claim with actual arguments and well-founded reasoning behind it?

Well, I could do that, but then you'd have no reason to bump this thread any more.

Translation into english: "no, I do not, I'd rather just throw out slippery slope arguments instead of actually defending my position."

Oh well. vOv

I see no downside to the first part, which I underlined. I see a flaw in logic with the whole hot dropping aspect, however.
Without local to create a motive for hot dropping tactics, the advantage they give is not nearly as connected with current game realities.
Put simply, if you don't automatically know when a population spike occurs in your system, you need to make an effort to learn this.
This raises the bar on intel, but it doesn't put it out of reach.

Null is supposed to be scary, not like a daycare. Your alliance secured your borders? It is now more effort, and fewer are likely to claim null is safer than high sec in sov space.
Because it would be more effort, it is more difficult to hold onto larger areas.
This is good.

In the next part, I stated "There is NO evidence to suggest this would harm the game by removing local."


Your opinion of high sec's problem being reward specific is noted.

PvP in null sec is obstructed by flawless intel instantly delivered to both sides.
This favors the defender clearly, since they have had time to prepare a response in the event a hostile name appears in the chat roster.
The hunting pilot, on the other hand, normally does NOT know exactly where to warp to in order to catch prey. Oh, they may have some good guesses, but unless their prey ignores their intel, the defender often enters warp at the same time as the hunter. (Loading the system often balancing the possible slower align time in many cases)
Not much PvP when the defender is watching carefully and ready. It would at least raise the bar if they had less certain intel that required effort needed for both sides.

Next, I stated, "WHs are a different environment, and local is working there"

Of course they are different, as I already pointed out.

Now, reduce the value of hot dropping, (assuming not removing the capacity by devs entirely with other changes).
Then add in full outposts and sovereignty advantages. Throw in no limit to the presence of standing fleets for defense.

Null sec just became the place for teamwork, with solo play being the far less safe option it should always have been in null.

Next, I stated, "... the ways that WH space is different keeps it from being relevant. Lord Zim apparently makes this claim.
I point out, in many ways, the similarities cannot be so easily discarded.


Null would become harder to find someone as well, without the free chat roster revealing them the moment you jump in.
Short of landing on grid with a pilot, knowing who they are becomes quite challenging.
Is it a pilot in range of your scans trying to bait you into an ambush, or just a PvE runner who may be distracted.

It is not the hunter's paradise. The uncertainty they will face not knowing who they are warping to will keep many to cautious choices.

Next, I stated, "I believe the pilot attitude is the most significant difference."


There is more to EVE than rewards.

You must have a challenge to give the rewards meaning.
Too much, and noone will take the risk.
Too little, and noone cares.

I made my arguments against local years ago.

Of course you don't, you're not trying to live there, with rewards barely above hisec.


This makes little sense. You hotdrop because you're going for a target which requires more than 1 person to kill quickly, so you tackle him, hotdrop him, and bugger off before anyone has any chance of responding. Local isn't involved in that line of thought in any way, shape or form.


This is a fallacy. It makes it more difficult to make a living there, it has nothing to do with "holding on to" any area. There's this thing called "a sov system" for that, you might've heard about it? It involves a full week of timers before you risk losing the system etc.

As to "reduce the value of hotdropping", why? It's something which is used quite extensively to get in there, burn a target down before they have time to yell "guys I'm tackled in the belt", and get out.

As to "full outposts and sovereignty advantages and no limits to the presence of standing fleets for defense", if only there were incentives to actually do all of this, compared to just going to hisec and doing things at your own leisure. Alas, there is not, and thus we're at the crossroads we're at now. vOv


Local tells you none of these things, all it tells you is that there's someone there. And since you'll be cloaked, you have literally all the time in the world assess the gankability of whomever it is, and you have the ability to bring along enough people to gank him that you can, without any issue whatsoever, tear them up before they even have the time to say "uh guys I'm tackled in the belt".


EVE is a game, my time actually has value. If I can choose between having to expend WH level time and energy to receive hisec money, I'll move back to hisec or move to a WH to receive WH level rewards.