EVE General Discussion

I've said it before, but I think it bears repeating.

OP, first off, desire for instant gratification is not inherently wrong. And just because you want something instantly, does not mean you lack patience. Especially if this game is meant for adults. Adults have jobs, responsibilities, things to do around the house, and in many cases (may gods have mercy on your souls) kids. This alone makes a game that requires patience (i.e. extremely slow game) a major negative.

Let me give you an example. Consider skilling up in EVE. Currently I'm training a skill that will take 21 days. Now, if instant gratification is bad and patience is good, what is so good about waiting 3 weeks, as opposed to 3 days, for example? Will this somehow make me a better person? If yes, wouldn't it make me a MUCH better person if the skill took 42 days? How about 84 days? 168 days? How about 336 days? Surely I'll be a FANTASTIC person just BRIMMING with patience and other virtues if I had to wait for 336 days for a skill to train IN A GAME. See how ludicrous it is? Training time in EVE is totally arbitrary. It requires patience. More importantly, it requires a time commitment. Something many people are unwilling to do, not because they're bad people but because they don't HAVE that time to commit in the first place.

Suppose in game A, if you wish to PvP, you can be PvPing within 30 seconds of logging in. Plus, in that game you can stop and start PvP at the drop of a hat. And game B is EVE, where you can roam for 2-3 hrs and not get any viable PvP (not counting dying in a fire against a blob or being outnumbered 5 to 1). Now, if you want to PvP, and you only have 30 mins to play tonight, and you may have to leave the keyboard once or twice in that period, to do things like take the laundry out of the washer and put it into the dryer. Which game will you be playing, Game A or EVE, if you want to PvP tonight? Most sane people will answer "Game A". Why? Because you are guaranteed PvP for nearly 30 mins, which is what you want. When would you pick EVE? When you want to d**k around for 30 mins with zero results and/or possibly get destroyed while AFK dealing with laundry. I would LOVE to have 3 hrs to play, in one sitting with no interruptions, every night. But that's not the world I live in. Same goes for many, if not most, adult gamers today.

Finally, your "you'll lose your s**t when you die" argument is 100% meaningless. Yes, that's right. Full loot on death and ship destruction is 100% meaningless as a mechanic. Here's why.

Assume gear (by gear I mean ships, fittings, ammo, etc., basically what you lose when you die) is easy to get. Then, by dying, you lose something that is easy to replace. Losing something that is easily replaced is meaningless.

As a contrary point, now assume gear is difficult to get. To lose it, you'd have to get it in the first place. And even if you got it, it took you so long to get that you wouldn't risk it. Hence, you'd be flying things that are easy to get. Which is why in FW for example 90% of people fly frigs and destroyers, which are easy to get and easy to replace (insurance), and not battleships. So, if gear is hard to get, nobody uses that hard to get gear, everyone uses easy to replace gear. See above paragraph, which means losing is once again meaningless.

Finally, if your income is so gigantic that you have more money that you know what to do with (this goes for both real life money, as in Pay2Win and or just ISK income), you can afford to throw away insanely expensive ships, because for you they're what a frigate is to an average player. Once again, making losing meaningless, since you take more in than you can reasonably lose in any given time period. Which makes losing, once again, meaningless.

Bottom line, this is really no different from gear damage mechanic in other games. Where if you die, you don't lose your gear, but rather the percentage of that gear. And even when the durability reaches zero, it just stops working, you don't lose it. You just pay for repair, and get back to fighting. Now, I'll grant you, psychologically losing 10% durability feels nothing like losing your ship and watching it disappear, even if ISK net-result is about the same. But that's all in your head. If you are aware that it's basically the same, you'll feel little impact from losing a ship.

Brace yourself, I'll make a WoW reference now. Back in the vanilla WoW days, when the game was just a few months old, repair bills were just as painful in WoW as losing a battleship in EVE. I was playing a plate-wearing tank, and repair costs scaled with the amount of hitpoints armor had. Trouble is, cloth armor had 300 points, and plate had 2000 points. Meaning, when you died 10 times and lost 100% durability, cloth wearer would pay to cover 300 points, and plate wearer would pay to cover 2000 points. Well, including all gear pieces and weapon, it was not unreasonable to walk away from one evening of raiding, without managing to down the final boss I might add, with totally broken armor and 20-25 gold repair bill. To put things in perspective, it would take you a better part of a week to farm enough gold to pay for that repair. In a way, it was identical to losing a battleship in EVE, when it comes to recovery time. Except it was spread over 10 deaths, and was one heck of a lot more entertaining (see 10 million subs vs 450k subs).

Bottom line, it's all pretty much arbitrary and meaningless. Patience is a virtue, yes, but when it is reasonable. Waiting in line 20 hrs to get groceries doesn't make you a better person, just because you're patient enough to do it. Full loot is meaningless - you only fly what you can afford to lose - and if you can afford to lose it, the loss is meaningless. For example, I can afford to lose $1. If I lose $1, it won't even register on my S**t-O-Meter. See? Meaningless.

1)No WASD does SUCK.

Anslo, do yourslef a favor, place Jenna on block. You cannot reason with him, he is by far the most unstable person I have ever seen post. How can a normal person relate to someone who hates people over a game?

Tired of pointless threads such as this one? Click on the link in my sig... My people will call your people.