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C4 Life?
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YuuKnow
The Scope
#1 - 2012-11-02 00:51:35 UTC  |  Edited by: YuuKnow
I'm curious to how living in a C4 compares living in a C3. Since C3 and below have static K-space and low mass limits the play seems pretty tame. There's always an exit to Kspace, and the PvP is mostly BC and T3 and cruisers. How does that compare to living in a C4? Is the lack of a Kspace exit even more of a pain? Are the invaders more likely to be in bulk with Bships? Are the PI planets better?

yk
Jack Miton
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#2 - 2012-11-02 01:22:04 UTC
People will laugh at you more for living in a C4 *shrug*
C4s will be more profitable since you'll have a real static that you can run sites in. Theyre basically C2s without a HS exit.

There is no Bob.

Stuck In Here With Me:  http://sihwm.blogspot.com.au/

Down the Pipe:  http://feeds.feedburner.com/CloakyScout
Cybus Max
Immortalis Inc.
Shadow Cartel
#3 - 2012-11-02 01:36:49 UTC
C4s aren't that bad jack as you say you can acces more sites and better sites.

The rotues to K space are most of the time fairly easy.

C4s are a good place for small wormhole corps to grow.
Jack Miton
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#4 - 2012-11-02 07:06:10 UTC
Cybus Max wrote:
C4s are a good place for small wormhole corps to grow.


yes, that is true, but only because all the C2s are taken.

There is no Bob.

Stuck In Here With Me:  http://sihwm.blogspot.com.au/

Down the Pipe:  http://feeds.feedburner.com/CloakyScout
Sandslinger
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#5 - 2012-11-02 09:05:31 UTC
Jack Miton wrote:
Cybus Max wrote:
C4s are a good place for small wormhole corps to grow.


yes, that is true, but only because all the C2s are taken.


C2's are more like low sec though lot's of HS and low sec entrances so constant stream of people running through

C4's are more like quiet corner very few C6 that go down via C4 as they tend to drop down to C3 quicker.
So they're kinda more like far away ratting corners.

Least that's my take on em....
Durzel
Questionable Ethics.
Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork
#6 - 2012-11-02 10:04:16 UTC
C4s are a terrible "no mans land" in w-space for three major reasons.

- The sites are too impractical to run solo, or require a silly expensive fit ship to do it.
- No capital escalations, but using capitals in them is completely overkill
- No k-space exits

Appreciate that a lot of people use their static for sites/pew, but C4s really feel like the red-headed stepchild in w-space terms.
Ashimat
Clandestine Services
#7 - 2012-11-02 10:06:53 UTC  |  Edited by: Ashimat
I would say the difference is quite big. A C2 or C3 is more or less the same as living in Empire, its just that the number of jumps to Jita vary :) People can live in a C2 for months and hardly having to scan at all.

A C4 is a "real" w-space system without a guaranteed empire-exit, I think that makes a lot of difference for a new, small w-space corp.

Got blog: http://thecloakedones.blogspot.com
AP John
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#8 - 2012-11-02 11:02:05 UTC
Yeah, Wh space is messed up, C4's are though, don't go there, stay in Empire space, or C1, C2.. what ever :D
RingRaith
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#9 - 2012-11-02 11:44:42 UTC
C4 sites (anoms, mags, radars) can be pretty annoying to run as the sleepers often spawn 100k+ from you. You burn over to them to kill them and the next spawn is again 100k+ away. This can be a pita for logi's and wreck salvage. The loot from radar/mag cans isn't all that good either compared to C5 and C6. If you have the people, C5's and C6's will be worth muuuuch more isk from sites and cap escalations.

Empire routes can also be a pita with some routes going through 4 or 5 systems before you hit empire. However, because of all of this and other things, you will generally find more C4's are empty as not many people want to live there so easier to find one to move in to.
Meytal
Doomheim
#10 - 2012-11-02 12:37:41 UTC
RingRaith wrote:
Empire routes can also be a pita with some routes going through 4 or 5 systems before you hit empire. However, because of all of this and other things, you will generally find more C4's are empty as not many people want to live there so easier to find one to move in to.

With a C4, C5, or C6 static, this is the case. However, C1, C2 and C3 always have k-space exits ... they just may not be convenient all of the time.

A C4 with static C3 is common for bear corps: you can solo farm your static, roll it easily and get a new one for new farming, and you're always a max of two jumps from empire. A static C2 is probably your best bet for living in a C4 and hunting for non-capital PvP because of its static connections. If you want to try to gank capital escalation fleets or hunt against the odds, a C5 or C6 static is your best bet; just don't expect easy (or safe) routes back to k-space.

No matter where you go the type of ship doesn't really matter, with a couple of distinctions: no roaming battleships or higher in C1, and no roaming caps below C5. T3s are powerful ships with a low mass and are very commonly used by w-space corps. Don't underestimate them, and expect to see a lot of them in w-space.

A good resource to use for planning where you want to live, who might visit you, and who you can visit is Arvash's static map.
Kalel Nimrott
Caldari Provisions
#11 - 2012-11-02 14:04:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Kalel Nimrott
Did you guys ever considered moving aroundbin a site? Firts it gets you off the spawn poin and random non cloaky/noob gankers that dont use hero tacklers/dictors. Second you can move towars the next sleepers spaw point vecinity (at least in c3 they were statics) so you are in shooting range. And third, it makes the salvaging a lot easier mostly couse you tend to put wrecks toghetes (my engrish sucks today)

Bob Artis, you will be missed.

O7
Bodega Cat
Expedition Spartica
#12 - 2012-11-02 16:20:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Bodega Cat
Living in a C4 has the benefit of remoteness, and its much more difficult to remove you from it should anyone end up having a grudge against you. If you actually build caps inside, you are practically invincible from removal.

The cons are no cap escalations, and you have to field semi-expensive ship/setups to run the sites inviting quality ganks with little chance that you'll escape. Siting in a C4 demands that you have complete coverage of all entrances at all times (and a probe out checking on the reg for new ones), and is very unforgiving if you don't. The Frontier barracks combat site however, is actually super good isk/per hour once you learn how to run them perfectly assuming you are doing it with just 2-3people.

Nevertheless, no one really makes their nut off their home system in anything less than a C5 down anyway, so it all depends on your statics. I say if you don't mind scanning your neighbor down to find exits, C4 life is great for new corps.

Mostly because like Jack Miton says, all the C2's and C3's are populated and trafficked annoyingly more. If you find one of these first, take it and learn the ropes in it instead, but don't pass on a choice C4 either if you are not completely turned off by the above because it provides slightly different benefits that are equally engaging.
Svodola Darkfury
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#13 - 2012-11-02 21:24:53 UTC
Having lived in a C2 with C4/HS for the last 6 months I'm comfortable saying C4s are good money for people who don't have the manpower for/don't feel like running Capital Escalations in C5s.

You can expect about 100 million ISK per site. We run in 3-5 man gangs and this works out to about 5-10 sites completed per hour.

You will not be able to "solo" them efficiently in the traditional sense; if you run 3 accounts you can easily "solo box" them in 3 tengus, or 2 battleships with a Logistics.

They're quiet enough most of the time that you don't have to worry about incoming too much, but I have noticed in the last few months more corps moving into C5->C4s or C4->C4s to run down a chain looking for kills. Using any number of well-known survival tactics you can safely run sites in a C4 with as few as 3 people (sub-capitals) efficiently. If you run in the EU timezone, you don't want to do C4s; there are 3 or 4 huge Russian alliances that are buying up the C4/C3s and the C2/C4s and they're very active in that TZ in C4s. This has put a lot more traffic through C4s in the last 2 months or so during that time window.

Svo.

Director of Frozen Corpse Industries.
Derath Ellecon
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#14 - 2012-11-02 21:40:22 UTC
Svodola Darkfury wrote:
Having lived in a C2 with C4/HS for the last 6 months I'm comfortable saying C4s are good money for people who don't have the manpower for/don't feel like running Capital Escalations in C5s.

You can expect about 100 million ISK per site. We run in 3-5 man gangs and this works out to about 5-10 sites completed per hour.

You will not be able to "solo" them efficiently in the traditional sense; if you run 3 accounts you can easily "solo box" them in 3 tengus, or 2 battleships with a Logistics.

They're quiet enough most of the time that you don't have to worry about incoming too much, but I have noticed in the last few months more corps moving into C5->C4s or C4->C4s to run down a chain looking for kills. Using any number of well-known survival tactics you can safely run sites in a C4 with as few as 3 people (sub-capitals) efficiently. If you run in the EU timezone, you don't want to do C4s; there are 3 or 4 huge Russian alliances that are buying up the C4/C3s and the C2/C4s and they're very active in that TZ in C4s. This has put a lot more traffic through C4s in the last 2 months or so during that time window.

Svo.


I have been quite successful so far running C4 sites dual boxing tengus. I have easily done 3 of the 4 anoms (haven't done integrated terminus yet). And I skip the radar/mag sites with the quad safeguard final wave. I can generally clear a site in about 18-20 minutes. I still prefer running in a fleet, but I also like being able to make isk when nobody is on.

Svodola Darkfury
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#15 - 2012-11-03 08:31:29 UTC
Derath Ellecon wrote:
Svodola Darkfury wrote:
Having lived in a C2 with C4/HS for the last 6 months I'm comfortable saying C4s are good money for people who don't have the manpower for/don't feel like running Capital Escalations in C5s.

You can expect about 100 million ISK per site. We run in 3-5 man gangs and this works out to about 5-10 sites completed per hour.

You will not be able to "solo" them efficiently in the traditional sense; if you run 3 accounts you can easily "solo box" them in 3 tengus, or 2 battleships with a Logistics.

They're quiet enough most of the time that you don't have to worry about incoming too much, but I have noticed in the last few months more corps moving into C5->C4s or C4->C4s to run down a chain looking for kills. Using any number of well-known survival tactics you can safely run sites in a C4 with as few as 3 people (sub-capitals) efficiently. If you run in the EU timezone, you don't want to do C4s; there are 3 or 4 huge Russian alliances that are buying up the C4/C3s and the C2/C4s and they're very active in that TZ in C4s. This has put a lot more traffic through C4s in the last 2 months or so during that time window.

Svo.


I have been quite successful so far running C4 sites dual boxing tengus. I have easily done 3 of the 4 anoms (haven't done integrated terminus yet). And I skip the radar/mag sites with the quad safeguard final wave. I can generally clear a site in about 18-20 minutes. I still prefer running in a fleet, but I also like being able to make isk when nobody is on.




Depending on the fit he's referring to, it's either remote rep shield fit, which is a little slow DPS wise, or local uber tank, which can be a bit expensive. Still good money though. Integrated Terminus' are the easiest btw; you'd roll them no problem, we used to do dual RR tengus for those.

Svo.

Director of Frozen Corpse Industries.
Derath Ellecon
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#16 - 2012-11-03 09:02:19 UTC
Svodola Darkfury wrote:

Depending on the fit he's referring to, it's either remote rep shield fit, which is a little slow DPS wise, or local uber tank, which can be a bit expensive. Still good money though. Integrated Terminus' are the easiest btw; you'd roll them no problem, we used to do dual RR tengus for those.

Svo.



They are a little over a bil each, which IMO isn't terribly bad for a Tengu (certainly not a 2-3bil bling fit). As I said I can clear about 3 an hour with the setup. I still prefer running with friends, but I've never enjoyed living in any class WH where I couldn't do anything when nobody else was online.
1c3crysta1
Silent Majority.
Aspartame.
#17 - 2012-11-03 13:39:54 UTC  |  Edited by: 1c3crysta1
C4s could be described as a semi-difficult farm spots. With the magnetar anomaly their anomalies (except the sleeper information sanctums) can be farmed fairly quickly by using 2 remote-repping domis. This allows for soloing (when dual-boxing) without investing too much money. The only problem is the DPS of those domi without the magnetar, it's not like the sleepers are melting infront of you...
Can't really say that there's the absolute need of always keeping track of everything,
I think that it's worth the losses (atleast if you're keeping to cheap domis) to just farm away and take the losses.
It's not like gankers are drawn to C4s Lol
The PI is the same in all of WH-space, since they all have an effective security-standing of -1.
Acac Sunflyier
The Ascended Academy
#18 - 2012-11-11 15:49:54 UTC
A c4 is ideal for the real hermits of eve. It's a ***** to get around but the isk isbn't bad and people will probably be too lazy to try and pick on you.
Rroff
Antagonistic Tendencies
#19 - 2012-11-11 17:16:14 UTC
As several people hinted at about C4s are the sweet spot for 1-2 people with well rounded sub-cap skills (but don't have or aren't interested in moving into multiboxing capitals or joining a bigger corp). A small number of well organised/skilled characters can run thorugh C4s quite effectively without having to spread the payout over lots of people.

Routes to k-space are going to be an issue, a C3 static could potentially mean you can crash it constantly for 2 hours and find nothing but C3s with low/null links and incoming C4s before you find a d845, k162 from high or a low thats feasible for highsec logistics. But a C3 static gives you another chance to make ISK if your motivated as you won't have to crash many to find one with lots of sites built up.

There is apparently a wandering hole from C4/k-space, most people are of the opinion that it doesn't exist in the game, I'm not so sure myself as the chance of it appearing does mean you could sit in a C4 24x7 monitoring sigs for 2-3 years and never see one, but that does mean its pretty much irrelevant if it exists or not and no ones ever come forward and said they've seen one.
Derath Ellecon
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#20 - 2012-11-11 18:26:50 UTC
Rroff wrote:
As several people hinted at about C4s are the sweet spot for 1-2 people with well rounded sub-cap skills (but don't have or aren't interested in moving into multiboxing capitals or joining a bigger corp). A small number of well organised/skilled characters can run thorugh C4s quite effectively without having to spread the payout over lots of people.

Routes to k-space are going to be an issue, a C3 static could potentially mean you can crash it constantly for 2 hours and find nothing but C3s with low/null links and incoming C4s before you find a d845, k162 from high or a low thats feasible for highsec logistics. But a C3 static gives you another chance to make ISK if your motivated as you won't have to crash many to find one with lots of sites built up.

There is apparently a wandering hole from C4/k-space, most people are of the opinion that it doesn't exist in the game, I'm not so sure myself as the chance of it appearing does mean you could sit in a C4 24x7 monitoring sigs for 2-3 years and never see one, but that does mean its pretty much irrelevant if it exists or not and no ones ever come forward and said they've seen one.


I'm not sure I buy all of this. A C4/C3 static could easily support a WH corp of the same size as a C2/C3, at least in terms of isk generation. Both can equally farm the static.

At least half of the inhabited C4's I have found recently have corps whos rosters are 30+.
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