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Bye bye safe orca hauling

Author
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#61 - 2012-11-06 10:40:05 UTC
Derath Ellecon wrote:
Corina Jarr wrote:
Explain?


https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2123982#post2123982

Post #136

I highlighted the important part.

Ok, so here's our current complete plan:

Corp hangars *on ships* are now fleet hangars
Volumes will all stay the same
Divisions are gone, as is any other reliance on corp roles
Ship fitting array is always available to everyone in your corp and/or your fleet
Ship fitting arrays on ships and starbases no longer restrict the number of characters that can use them simulataneously
Fleet hangars and ship maintenance arrays on ships both now have "allow fleet member use" and "allow corp member use" in the inventory UI
We're adding five new non-compressive containers (from 250k m3 down to 1k m3)
For containers in a fleet hangar, only the pilot will ever be allowed to open or remove the container; other characters will only be able to drop into the container (with a warning)
Fleet hangars will now behave like normal cargo hold when it comes to ship scanners and loot drops (ie, will be scannable, and loot will drop from them)


We're hoping this will be the final set of adjustments, but obviously we're reading the feedback here :)

-Greyscale


It's a good change. There was never any justification for magic undetectable hangars that didn't drop loot like "proper" cargo bays; it was just never fixed. And now it has been

+1 CCP

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016

Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#62 - 2012-11-06 10:50:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Malcanis
double post I hate this forum

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016

Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#63 - 2012-11-06 10:59:30 UTC
LuckyQuarter wrote:
Alternatively, some of you in null sec could..you know...actually research blueprints and manufacture everything locally. Yeah, it might mean some of you have to spend some time mining and training industrial skills rather than spending all your time pew-pewing... oh, the horror of acting like those bears in highsec!

All you really need to get for most things is blue prints and maybe minor t2 components..would fit easily in a viator, and a viator with covops cloak and warp speed implant would make logistics simple.

But instead..we went with JF's, and now everyone from nullsec has time to gank in high sec because hey..they have to go to highsec anyway to get their stuff....yay.


I invite you to try this sometime.

So, seriously, contact me ingame, I'll get you into VANIS, you can tootle up to Querious and see how you find the experience of manufacturing in sov space.

HINT: training skills is not the issue here. We all have industrial alts. A substantial fraction of "hi-sec" population is actually the alts of 0.0 people using hi-sec to manufacture because the facilities are so vastly superior that it's more efficient to manufacture BATTLESHIPS 40 jumps from where they're actually needed.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016

Nimrod vanHall
Van Mij Belastingvrij
#64 - 2012-11-06 15:59:20 UTC
Weiland Taur wrote:
Jerick Ludhowe wrote:
Maeltstome wrote:
JF's ruined 0.0 - logistics in this game are a joke now. This is insanely minor in comparison to the buffs that moving large volumes of assets have had in recent years.


This this and this. JF were almost as massive a mistake as super carriers and titans.



I don't have enough experience to know what this means. What is wrong with JF's or how did they ruin 0.0? In my limited time in Null they seem like a lifeline. How else would you get needed materials into null especially since local production is usually sort of a joke?



Ehhhm why produce yourself when its easier and cheaper just to JF it all in from Jita.
Oopsy Bear
Doomheim
#65 - 2012-11-08 06:14:42 UTC
Derath Ellecon wrote:
Was good while it lasted.


I would support CCP making items drop from every kill and at a higher rate in exchange for cargo scanners being removed from the game.
Zyella Stormborn
Green Seekers
#66 - 2012-11-08 06:34:32 UTC
Oopsy Bear wrote:
Derath Ellecon wrote:
Was good while it lasted.


I would support CCP making items drop from every kill and at a higher rate in exchange for cargo scanners being removed from the game.


Or flagging the ship that scans. ;)

There is a special Hell for people like that, Right next to child molestors, and people that talk in the theater. ~Firefly

Lin-Young Borovskova
Doomheim
#67 - 2012-11-09 19:58:56 UTC
Dave stark wrote:
Lin-Young Borovskova wrote:
Dave stark wrote:
Weiland Taur wrote:

There is something boring in being able to scan everything. CCP is rapidly removing the element of chance and excitement in finding out what the pinata holds as it cracks open. Simply making the Corp. Hangar drop items like a regular cargo hold would have been a wonderful change.


uh, that's exactly what they've done.. made it drop loot.


+can be scan, witch once again is a huge buff to ganking but most people will not realise it before it happens.

I'm not against ganking but against brainless ganking when the gankee is being punished and nerf by whatever means just to get new awesome pixel explosions stats... yeah awesome Roll

You're clearly being told to never undock with your stuff, you'll become bounty/gank profitable no matter how mutch effort you put in the moment pixels explode. That's what's wrong, brainless stuff from conception to execution to please multi account ragequit nerds.

Whatever.


the person being ganked is only being punished for gross stupidity, every one should be punished for being stupid.
if you want to put 30bn isk of anything in any ship, you deserve to get shot at.

if you're really that worried about the time ti takes to haul high value cargo in multiple trips, or how risky it is to haul that officer module... then throw it in a courrier contract and pay some one else laughably poor isk to take all the risk.


I'm a space mendicant, I only kill red crosses to replace my stuff. If I ever get some faction stuff in my cargo or hangar it always comes from other players ship drop.

Doesn't mean I shouldn't have an opinion (yep I do own an Orca to move my ships left and right), but whatever.

I only ask for NPC stations to be destructible, everything else, I care more or less.

brb

DarthNefarius
Minmatar Heavy Industries
#68 - 2012-11-10 19:33:11 UTC  |  Edited by: DarthNefarius
Songbird wrote:
fukcing containers - I thought we got rid of containers with the new hangars - apparently not. 1 step forward 3 sideways. Thanks a lot asholes


You forgot a step backwards Roll I too thought that the UI would help in seperating crystals but they don't help jack there you can't switch to unused crystals w/o new crystals being pushed in ( don't believe the lies that the right clickwindow tells you ! ) making a mess of your crystal managemnt w/o cargo containers Ugh
An' then Chicken@little.com, he come scramblin outta the    Terminal room screaming "The system's crashing! The system's    crashing!" -Uncle RAMus, 'Tales for Cyberpsychotic Children'
Piugattuk
Litla Sundlaugin
#69 - 2012-11-11 06:26:16 UTC
As of today I sold mine, and I'm selling off my entire industrial fleet, tired of CCP giving upper hand to griefers.
Weiland Taur
Alpha Republic - Transcenders of Space and Time
Solyaris Chtonium
#70 - 2012-11-11 12:55:43 UTC

They need to get rid of ship scanners and simply introduce a dedicated scanning ship, maybe one of those fairly useless hulls like the Primea that are sitting in people's hangars collecting dust. Gankees should know they are being scanned and be able to respond in some way even if it's just trying to get into alignment and warp. Gankers should either be totally surprised by the drop or have to find a more creative way to find out what is in the package, i.e. some of that espionage we are always hearing about. A sort of counter broadcast unit that gives off signals to make the scan ship think you have something you don't might be fun as well as a Gank bait device.

Escomboli
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#71 - 2012-11-11 13:08:55 UTC
SmilingVagrant wrote:
You were never meant to have 100% safe hauling.



No hauling was ever safe, regardless of the ability to scan. People gank just to gank sometimes. Especially with the bump mechanics. Can keep someone stuck in a spot until the servers shut down while others just go to refit and shoot again.
Weiland Taur
Alpha Republic - Transcenders of Space and Time
Solyaris Chtonium
#72 - 2012-11-11 13:12:59 UTC
Escomboli wrote:
SmilingVagrant wrote:
You were never meant to have 100% safe hauling.



No hauling was ever safe, regardless of the ability to scan. People gank just to gank sometimes. Especially with the bump mechanics. Can keep someone stuck in a spot until the servers shut down while others just go to refit and shoot again.


And please, CCP, can we get rid of bumping. If you want to bump another ship it should be with a dedicated ship or a ship outfitted with a specific set of modules that allows it to only do that. Bumping is one of the DUMBEST MECHANICS EVER. While I applaud players making something of this horrible coding it makes absolutely no sense. Giant metal ships smash into each other and fly around like bumper cars instead of doing what giant metal things do when they hit each other at speed, which of course is break.
Lexa Hellfury
Perkone
Caldari State
#73 - 2012-11-12 03:12:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Lexa Hellfury
Weiland Taur wrote:

I don't have enough experience to know what this means. What is wrong with JF's or how did they ruin 0.0? In my limited time in Null they seem like a lifeline. How else would you get needed materials into null especially since local production is usually sort of a joke?



For starters, the ability to cyno from Jita directly to a deathstar POS in sov space, and from there take a jump bridge directly to your destination system basically removes all risk in nullsec logistics. Jump Freighters and Jump Bridges are the two worst changes to ever happen to nullsec. Prior to those, if people wanted things in nullsec, they either had to manufacture it in their space, or they had to use these crazy things called stargates to bring it in from somewhere else. The number of fights that have been lost over the years due to JFs and JBs is immeasurable. And yes, I'm talking about actual fights, not just hauler ganks (although there would certainly be more of those, too).

Imagine, if you would, a world without JFs or JBs. Alliance X needs to do some logistics (say, for instance, POS fuel). They purchase it in jita, load it into a freighter(s), and start making their way to their destination. They then have to have a fleet meet their freighter at the first lowsec system along the route. They have to clear out every gatecamp along the route, and be prepared to fight any roaming gangs they come across. The obvious downside is that there's more :jumps: for whoever is stuck flying the freighter, but the upside is that the alliance as a whole has to actual put in effort beyond "lol i lit a cyno" to get shit to and from Jita.

Now enter Corporation/Alliance Y, a group of pilots that specializes in small-gang PvP. As things stand right now, the only thing that roaming through enemy space does is force ratters to warp to a POS, and catch the occasional moron not reading intel channels, and maybe, if somebody has an FC online and feels like fighting you, you'll get a ~good fight~. This happen maybe 2-3 times a week with the current system. With the removal of JFs and JBs, there would actually be a purpose behind roaming in enemy space. Not only would there be convoys as described above to go out and fight, there would be individual pilots doing their personal hauling to disrupt. While 90% of the time this results in nothing more than a ~hauler gank~, if you push somebody often enough they eventually are forced to defend their shit, or have their alliance collapse.

Gatecamping would also have a place in Eve once again. As it stands right now, gatecamping serves next to no purpose. You sit on a gate while watching pornography on your second monitor, and every once in a while a shuttle jumps into you and if you're paying enough attention you maybe get on the killmail. However, if gatecamping actually disrupted something, you would not only get a few more ganks, but people would have to come and try to clear you out at some point.

While this obviously wouldn't spawn constant fights, and people would still blob/run away/other bullshit, it would increase the potential for fights tenfold from what it is right now. Alliances would have to be more self-sufficient in terms of defending themselves. You can batphone your entire coalition whenever your structures are shot, but you cant batphone your entire coalition every time you want to move something. Alliances would have to actually be able to stand on their own 2 feet if they wanted to live in nullsec, and it would present more opportunities for small-mid sized fights in both not only sov space, but also npc space and lowsec, and that would definitely be a good thing for Eve-Online overall, even if a few freighter pilots have to spend a few more hours a week at the keyboard and get the occasional adrenaline rush.
Ant4r3s
Blockchain Bank Of New Eden
#74 - 2012-11-15 05:35:43 UTC
Lexa Hellfury wrote:

Gatecamping would also have a place in Eve once again. As it stands right now, gatecamping serves next to no purpose. You sit on a gate while watching pornography on your second monitor, and every once in a while a shuttle jumps into you and if you're paying enough attention you maybe get on the killmail. However, if gatecamping actually disrupted something, you would not only get a few more ganks, but people would have to come and try to clear you out at some point.

While this obviously wouldn't spawn constant fights, and people would still blob/run away/other bullshit, it would increase the potential for fights tenfold from what it is right now. Alliances would have to be more self-sufficient in terms of defending themselves. You can batphone your entire coalition whenever your structures are shot, but you cant batphone your entire coalition every time you want to move something. Alliances would have to actually be able to stand on their own 2 feet if they wanted to live in nullsec, and it would present more opportunities for small-mid sized fights in both not only sov space, but also npc space and lowsec, and that would definitely be a good thing for Eve-Online overall, even if a few freighter pilots have to spend a few more hours a week at the keyboard and get the occasional adrenaline rush.



disagree on this part - just look at damn HED-GP between 10PM and 6 AM Eve Time. There's a gian collection of like 10 bubbles and a handful pilots permacamping at the Keberz gate. And while it would be extremely simplified to fight those gatecamps, no one rarely ever does it(except maybe 1 or 2 times an evening to take the gate camp over). While Pilots both from nullsex and from empire space have it easy to break down that camp(because getting a new ship is really cheap, and a tradehub is in direct reach) , no one really does it. so no, forcing people to do risky logistics doesnt make GCs more exciting. It just makes routes partially impassable
Lexa Hellfury
Perkone
Caldari State
#75 - 2012-11-15 15:22:18 UTC
Ant4r3s wrote:
Lexa Hellfury wrote:

Gatecamping would also have a place in Eve once again. As it stands right now, gatecamping serves next to no purpose. You sit on a gate while watching pornography on your second monitor, and every once in a while a shuttle jumps into you and if you're paying enough attention you maybe get on the killmail. However, if gatecamping actually disrupted something, you would not only get a few more ganks, but people would have to come and try to clear you out at some point.

While this obviously wouldn't spawn constant fights, and people would still blob/run away/other bullshit, it would increase the potential for fights tenfold from what it is right now. Alliances would have to be more self-sufficient in terms of defending themselves. You can batphone your entire coalition whenever your structures are shot, but you cant batphone your entire coalition every time you want to move something. Alliances would have to actually be able to stand on their own 2 feet if they wanted to live in nullsec, and it would present more opportunities for small-mid sized fights in both not only sov space, but also npc space and lowsec, and that would definitely be a good thing for Eve-Online overall, even if a few freighter pilots have to spend a few more hours a week at the keyboard and get the occasional adrenaline rush.



disagree on this part - just look at damn HED-GP between 10PM and 6 AM Eve Time. There's a gian collection of like 10 bubbles and a handful pilots permacamping at the Keberz gate. And while it would be extremely simplified to fight those gatecamps, no one rarely ever does it(except maybe 1 or 2 times an evening to take the gate camp over). While Pilots both from nullsex and from empire space have it easy to break down that camp(because getting a new ship is really cheap, and a tradehub is in direct reach) , no one really does it. so no, forcing people to do risky logistics doesnt make GCs more exciting. It just makes routes partially impassable


The HED-GP camp is actually a huge pain in the ass to go bust. You either have to go through something like 10-15 jumps of empire (which is a massive hassle when half your fleet has to best-speed to HED because they're -5 and would die to police if they slow down, thus resulting in your fleet being spread out over multiple systems by the time they reach Keberz, where they still can't stop and wait), or you have to go the long way through either Curse or Provi, both of which are more enticing to stay in and PvP than to go to HED and have the camp go "lol, we're jumping into highsec, bye". It's just quite a ways out of the way to go, because if you don't get a fight there you basically have to turn around and go back the way you came.
Lord Calus
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#76 - 2012-11-15 17:18:07 UTC
Weiland Taur wrote:
Escomboli wrote:
SmilingVagrant wrote:
You were never meant to have 100% safe hauling.



No hauling was ever safe, regardless of the ability to scan. People gank just to gank sometimes. Especially with the bump mechanics. Can keep someone stuck in a spot until the servers shut down while others just go to refit and shoot again.


And please, CCP, can we get rid of bumping. If you want to bump another ship it should be with a dedicated ship or a ship outfitted with a specific set of modules that allows it to only do that. Bumping is one of the DUMBEST MECHANICS EVER. While I applaud players making something of this horrible coding it makes absolutely no sense. Giant metal ships smash into each other and fly around like bumper cars instead of doing what giant metal things do when they hit each other at speed, which of course is break.


Not sure if you are serious or just being a troll. Bumping is a perfectly legit mechanic which has been in the game forever. I am terribly sorry that you feel like you know better than the game designers, and have not adapted to almost 10 years of game mechanics.

Next time try one of the following:
Don't fly what you can't afford to lose.
Never haul more than 2bil isk worth of stuff at a time.
Don't mine AFK.
Don't aggress people in your bling ship.
Don't fly what you can't afford to lose.

If the people who want to gank couldn't bump, they would still be able to gank. Your suggestion just reeks of impotent rage because you died to something and you want that something nerfed/removed. Have a nice day!