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Bye bye safe orca hauling

Author
Weiland Taur
Alpha Republic - Transcenders of Space and Time
Solyaris Chtonium
#41 - 2012-11-03 16:51:01 UTC

There is something boring in being able to scan everything. CCP is rapidly removing the element of chance and excitement in finding out what the pinata holds as it cracks open. Simply making the Corp. Hangar drop items like a regular cargo hold would have been a wonderful change.
Dave stark
#42 - 2012-11-03 17:01:01 UTC
Weiland Taur wrote:

There is something boring in being able to scan everything. CCP is rapidly removing the element of chance and excitement in finding out what the pinata holds as it cracks open. Simply making the Corp. Hangar drop items like a regular cargo hold would have been a wonderful change.


uh, that's exactly what they've done.. made it drop loot.
Daniel Plain
Doomheim
#43 - 2012-11-03 17:17:33 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Expanding on the Orca's cargo hold is a bad idea at the moment anyway

why?

I should buy an Ishtar.

Lin-Young Borovskova
Doomheim
#44 - 2012-11-03 20:01:10 UTC
Dave stark wrote:
Weiland Taur wrote:

There is something boring in being able to scan everything. CCP is rapidly removing the element of chance and excitement in finding out what the pinata holds as it cracks open. Simply making the Corp. Hangar drop items like a regular cargo hold would have been a wonderful change.


uh, that's exactly what they've done.. made it drop loot.


+can be scan, witch once again is a huge buff to ganking but most people will not realise it before it happens.

I'm not against ganking but against brainless ganking when the gankee is being punished and nerf by whatever means just to get new awesome pixel explosions stats... yeah awesome Roll

You're clearly being told to never undock with your stuff, you'll become bounty/gank profitable no matter how mutch effort you put in the moment pixels explode. That's what's wrong, brainless stuff from conception to execution to please multi account ragequit nerds.

Whatever.

brb

Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#45 - 2012-11-03 20:51:16 UTC
Lin-Young Borovskova wrote:
You're clearly being told to never undock with your stuff, you'll become bounty/gank profitable no matter how mutch effort you put in the moment pixels explode. That's what's wrong, brainless stuff from conception to execution to please multi account ragequit nerds.
Nah. You're being told “don't undock without due care”. All this change does is make Orcas sane again. You can still ISK-tank your hauls just fine.
Lin-Young Borovskova
Doomheim
#46 - 2012-11-04 16:48:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Lin-Young Borovskova
[awesome forums are awesome]

brb

Lin-Young Borovskova
Doomheim
#47 - 2012-11-04 16:54:52 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Lin-Young Borovskova wrote:
You're clearly being told to never undock with your stuff, you'll become bounty/gank profitable no matter how mutch effort you put in the moment pixels explode. That's what's wrong, brainless stuff from conception to execution to please multi account ragequit nerds.
Nah. You're being told “don't undock without due care”. All this change does is make Orcas sane again. You can still ISK-tank your hauls just fine.


I'm not complaining because there are idiots loving to spend hours in their day hauling crap around right and left.

This adds nothing positive to the game or player experience, does not improve the tedious part but makes it even harder.

So where is the awesome player experience and removal of the tedious farming fest a-la-Aion-Wow and click fest a-la-Diablo III with this change?
I clearly don't get it why this is so awesome apart from the awesome gank buff. The ship is not getting a bigger Ship Hangar, is not getting bigger cargo haul, nor is getting it's align/warp buff for the "give it" part, I only see a "take it" one.

brb

Songbird
#48 - 2012-11-04 17:16:35 UTC
fukcing containers - I thought we got rid of containers with the new hangars - apparently not. 1 step forward 3 sideways. Thanks a lot asholes
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#49 - 2012-11-04 17:50:22 UTC
Lin-Young Borovskova wrote:
I clearly don't get it why this is so awesome apart from the awesome gank buff.
Because it removes a silly black spot in the cargo carrying mechanics. Sweet and handy as it was, it was also hilariously broken.

Songbird wrote:
fukcing containers - I thought we got rid of containers with the new hangars - apparently not. 1 step forward 3 sideways. Thanks a lot asholes
Quite the opposite: the new inventory system was meant to make containers much more useful as “folders” for your stuff. Now if only the uninventory had worked properly… but it's getting a whole lot better with this update as well, so it might all come together in the end.
Weiland Taur
Alpha Republic - Transcenders of Space and Time
Solyaris Chtonium
#50 - 2012-11-04 18:05:02 UTC
Jerick Ludhowe wrote:
Maeltstome wrote:
JF's ruined 0.0 - logistics in this game are a joke now. This is insanely minor in comparison to the buffs that moving large volumes of assets have had in recent years.


This this and this. JF were almost as massive a mistake as super carriers and titans.



I don't have enough experience to know what this means. What is wrong with JF's or how did they ruin 0.0? In my limited time in Null they seem like a lifeline. How else would you get needed materials into null especially since local production is usually sort of a joke?

Songbird
#51 - 2012-11-04 18:22:40 UTC
we already had folders and they were not limited by size - in fact the system was quite good. Now if you're in a fleet with anybody better hope they're honest people and will not steal whatever you put in the hangars. Goddamit
Darek Castigatus
Immortalis Inc.
Shadow Cartel
#52 - 2012-11-04 18:26:16 UTC
Weiland Taur wrote:
Jerick Ludhowe wrote:
Maeltstome wrote:
JF's ruined 0.0 - logistics in this game are a joke now. This is insanely minor in comparison to the buffs that moving large volumes of assets have had in recent years.


This this and this. JF were almost as massive a mistake as super carriers and titans.



I don't have enough experience to know what this means. What is wrong with JF's or how did they ruin 0.0? In my limited time in Null they seem like a lifeline. How else would you get needed materials into null especially since local production is usually sort of a joke?



Because null logistics became 'ship to lowsec station next to highsec, transfer to JF, undock, light cyno, jump to friendly jumpbridge (repeat those two for as many times as you need to hit the null region you want), light cyno, jump to dest, dock' repeated in reverse on the way back.

Ive heard many tales of freighter escort ops from old hands and while they were in part a boring chore they also gave vastly more opportunities for things to happen enroute. It also means you actually had to work to maintain a decent sized null region rather than just shipping in everything from high sec at vastly reduced risk.

Pirates - The Invisible Fist of Darwin

you're welcome

Melina Lin
Universal Frog
#53 - 2012-11-05 21:30:28 UTC
Darek Castigatus wrote:
Ive heard many tales of freighter escort ops from old hands and while they were in part a boring chore they also gave vastly more opportunities for things to happen enroute.


I wonder what tales the old hands would sing, had they run their freigther escorts in an environment where even small alt corps are capable of a sizeable dread hot drop. Roll
LuckyQuarter
Lucky Galactic Expeditions
#54 - 2012-11-06 02:18:09 UTC
I'm fine with this change, and don't see any need to buff freighters or orca's against ganking. All we need to do to balance things is to get rid of cargo scanners all together -- they've always seemed like a cheat to me - especially since they don't generate aggro or cause standing loss when activated despite their being at least somewhat of a hostile act....if pirates want to gank, go ahead...but they should live with whatever chance brings them in terms of loot/cargo and not be able to know in advance what loot is likely to drop.
Alua Oresson
UpAllNight Corp
#55 - 2012-11-06 03:27:23 UTC
Darek Castigatus wrote:
Weiland Taur wrote:
Jerick Ludhowe wrote:
Maeltstome wrote:
JF's ruined 0.0 - logistics in this game are a joke now. This is insanely minor in comparison to the buffs that moving large volumes of assets have had in recent years.


This this and this. JF were almost as massive a mistake as super carriers and titans.



I don't have enough experience to know what this means. What is wrong with JF's or how did they ruin 0.0? In my limited time in Null they seem like a lifeline. How else would you get needed materials into null especially since local production is usually sort of a joke?



Because null logistics became 'ship to lowsec station next to highsec, transfer to JF, undock, light cyno, jump to friendly jumpbridge (repeat those two for as many times as you need to hit the null region you want), light cyno, jump to dest, dock' repeated in reverse on the way back.

Ive heard many tales of freighter escort ops from old hands and while they were in part a boring chore they also gave vastly more opportunities for things to happen enroute. It also means you actually had to work to maintain a decent sized null region rather than just shipping in everything from high sec at vastly reduced risk.


Bolded the relevant part. When we ran freighter runs it was the most god awful boring experience. There weren't epic battles, there weren't hot drops. It was just 8+ hour ops where if a neut came within 2 systems of you, the freighter was docked up/logged off so that the shipment of Zydrine that you were carrying wouldn't be destroyed. Why Zydrine you ask? Because you mined it, that was the most lucrative thing you could do. There were no anomalies, everyone sat around and mined all week to have money to PVP on the weekend. The good old days weren't that good. I prefer having jump freighters available. It means I can stay in 0.0 to PVP or whatever and not have to make a weekly trip to empire to pick up a ship because the stations never had anything for sale.

http://pvpwannabe.blogspot.com/

LuckyQuarter
Lucky Galactic Expeditions
#56 - 2012-11-06 04:55:09 UTC
Alternatively, some of you in null sec could..you know...actually research blueprints and manufacture everything locally. Yeah, it might mean some of you have to spend some time mining and training industrial skills rather than spending all your time pew-pewing... oh, the horror of acting like those bears in highsec!

All you really need to get for most things is blue prints and maybe minor t2 components..would fit easily in a viator, and a viator with covops cloak and warp speed implant would make logistics simple.

But instead..we went with JF's, and now everyone from nullsec has time to gank in high sec because hey..they have to go to highsec anyway to get their stuff....yay.
Trinkets friend
Sudden Buggery
Sending Thots And Players
#57 - 2012-11-06 06:42:53 UTC
When I lived in dullsec 12 months ago briefly, I made 16 billion in 3 months running logistics. I did one JF run, gave it up as a bad joke of a carebear activity, and went back to probing my ass through wormholes, which worked out cheaper, and got me a few ganks of my own enroute. I would get a route to Empire from Delve every 3-4 days and from Etherium Reach every 2-4.

I hear tales that IRC deploys draconian national socialist policies with regards to reporting wormholes, because it gives people in their space an ability to circumvent their carebear empire's massive industrial base, and to compete directly with their carebears on market using cheaply manufactured goods from Empire.

Seriously, if people are crying about JFs it should only be because of the fuel cost, not yearning for days of old when you couldn't survive well in dullsec because the market was borked because no one could even get a mining laser to go do this alleged mining in order to kickstart a foodchain of modules and hulls.

The biggest joke in nullsec? Hauler spawns. This is why no one really mines. A decent alliance worth of nullbears humping belts 23.5/7 can unearth enough hauler spawns to drop ridiculous volumes of low-end minerals, and make squillions in bouties while doing it.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#58 - 2012-11-06 07:36:28 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
LuckyQuarter wrote:
Alternatively, some of you in null sec could..you know...actually research blueprints and manufacture everything locally.
The problem with that is that it would be braindead to do so since it would needlessly increase costs and make logistics even more horrible.

Sobaseki, one system one jump away from Jita has 250 fixed production slots. Nonni, six jumps from Jita has 750 station-based slots. Lonetrek as a whole has 12,600 such fixed slots. This makes a single system better for production purposes than an entire region of nullsec space, and the inconvenience of manufacturing at a POS does not make up for this massive imbalance.
Muad 'dib
The Nine Nine
#59 - 2012-11-06 09:33:33 UTC
im not a hauling geek or anything, but couldnt you just make courier contracts for stuff instead?

Cosmic signature detected. . . . http://i.imgur.com/Z7NfIS6.jpg I got 99 likes, and this post aint one.

Dave stark
#60 - 2012-11-06 10:36:57 UTC
Lin-Young Borovskova wrote:
Dave stark wrote:
Weiland Taur wrote:

There is something boring in being able to scan everything. CCP is rapidly removing the element of chance and excitement in finding out what the pinata holds as it cracks open. Simply making the Corp. Hangar drop items like a regular cargo hold would have been a wonderful change.


uh, that's exactly what they've done.. made it drop loot.


+can be scan, witch once again is a huge buff to ganking but most people will not realise it before it happens.

I'm not against ganking but against brainless ganking when the gankee is being punished and nerf by whatever means just to get new awesome pixel explosions stats... yeah awesome Roll

You're clearly being told to never undock with your stuff, you'll become bounty/gank profitable no matter how mutch effort you put in the moment pixels explode. That's what's wrong, brainless stuff from conception to execution to please multi account ragequit nerds.

Whatever.


the person being ganked is only being punished for gross stupidity, every one should be punished for being stupid.
if you want to put 30bn isk of anything in any ship, you deserve to get shot at.

if you're really that worried about the time ti takes to haul high value cargo in multiple trips, or how risky it is to haul that officer module... then throw it in a courrier contract and pay some one else laughably poor isk to take all the risk.