Ships & Modules

yes join channel "The Valhalla Project" they fly with anything and have no special pre-reqs, but as of recently they have been squaring off against the ISN groups but still drop in the channel and have a peek

CNR's work find in assaults/HQ's where you need to snipe things (because aside from getting a sebo, you don't need to do anything to improve the range of cruise missiles to hit anything on the field). Don't bother with vanguards though - CNR is utterly useless there.

Amazingly enough, CNR is probably the best sniping ship, because it can put more dps on target at 100km+ than any other ship in the game, including the nightmare. Sniping goes from CNR>>tengu (range rigs needed, no longer viable come winter expansion)>(note, barely better than this) > nightmare>others. Assuming similar amounts of bling, a regular raven can do slightly more dps than a nightmare, but you are more likely to get in a fleet with a CNR/nightmare than a regular raven.

-Arazel

missile ships were never viable for incursions.

I'm not sure about this... Torp Ravens lose their only selling point for incursions - hitting battleships @ 150 km. Maybe things are different in HQs, I don't know.


If you OP wish to get into lower-end incursions (vanguards), your best bet with your specs would be Megathron and Rokh with blasters (almost all enemies in vanguards are fast frigates that orbit at 15 km and cruisers that orbit at 20).

Lets compare a few numbers and tactics shall we? I'll go ahead and use all t2 fits, because both sides can equally pimp as they desire. All fits get 4 dps mods.

CNR - easily hits at range, does 712dps with fury missiles which will apply full dps to battleship targets, less to the cruiser snipers. 640dps with CN cruise. Missile boats keep firing until either through the targets armor, or halfway through it depending upon how many gun snipers there are on the field (guns/missiles already in flight finish the hull).

Mach - we'll use 1400's on the mach, just to maximize the numbers. With RF EMP loaded, a 1400 mach gets 790dps - at 42+126 (note, fit has 4 gyro's and 3 TE's, and is already over on PG without any shield mods fitted). While this can hit at 120km, it does less than 600dps at that range - so you are now hitting for less than the CNR. Switching to titanium Sabot ammo, you get a damage drop to 527dps at 85+126. meaning that you have even less dps at the necessary ranges than with EMP, and the dps at 120km is aroudn 510. The only advantage for the mach is instant damage, but all the sniper targets have enough EHP that you aren't going to oneshot them anyways

Nightmare - Using tachs, the nightmare doesn't need any tracking mods to hit 120km with aurora ammo loaded, but it only does 532dps. If we put 2 T2 locus coordinator rigs on the nightmare, we can use imperial navy infrared ammo for 535dps at 112+25km, but this does not significantly improve our dps. Now, the nightmare does provide the most dps of the 3 at closer ranges, putting out 917dps with IN multi to around 50km, but I have always found the sniper targets being the holdup in most fleets, so the nightmare usually won't be applying dps at these ranges.

Now, as to your comment about the rohk... A rohk with CN antimatter and 4 magstabs does 645dps, with a range of 70+49 (assuming 2 tracking comps). CN uranium would probably be the best ammo for a rohk at the desired ranges, giving you 537dps at 105+49. Which we can see is about the same as the nightmare (except the nightmare has better tracking and better damage at shorter ranges)

So yes, the non-missile boats have the advantage of instant damage. However, assuming that you have a competent sniper FC, all the ships are going to be equally able to apply their damage, without too much wasted. I can understand if you have trouble being competent, but seriously, that is your problem, not ours.

-Arazel

#1, I think you're ignoring the range you get when tach mares switch their TC to range scripts, they can also operate up close with tracking scripts and gleam.
For one, I use IN Xray or UV at those ranges (often if you look at falloff DPS curves vs base damage,you get better DPS by going for the shorter range, higher DPS ammo, as long as you aren't too deep into falloff)
For the moment (though this will change), a raven can only pimp its DPS through BCUs (applies to turrets and missiles equally), and increase the sig of the target through TPs(applies to turrets and missiles equally). It can't take advantage of minimized traversal, only minimized target speed - and you won't be webbing at those ranges.
Here one should note the difference between paper and applied DPS

The high damage ammo of machs and mares out DPSs the CNR by a good margin... and you can boost range to allow higher damage ammo to be used...
CNRs don't have that option


#2, You completely ignored the point about lost DPS in a contest - I acknowledged thats its an OK sniper when your fleet is the only one in the site.
One should not ignore contests, and in contests, the turret ships will focus fire on ships to destroy them before missiles hit, and the result will be much un-applied DPS from the missile boats.

Of course, incursions are still stupidly rewarding in terms of ISK, and the only way it seems justified is if there is competition, if it is PvEvP - one should not pretend contests don't exist, or get mad when they happen