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Why has NPC's been given the best tools for industrialism?

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Archdaimon
Merchants of the Golden Goose
#1 - 2012-10-31 09:23:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Archdaimon
What is the reasoning behind having NPC stations being the best place for manufacture?

I see a lot of advantages having POS'es being better for industrialism (refining, manufacture etc.), and anything owned or constructed by npc's at a serious disadvantage (or taxed). Refining is the most obvious of these.

- Null, low and wh would gain a much needed buff to their industrial efforts
- People who own poses in hi sec would get more out of them
- Wars would be started between corps who can actually fight back over poses in hi-sec (Wars that mean something).


It *edit* doesn't even *edit* make sense from a lore perspective, but honestly, from a gameplay perspective giving players the best tools in the stuff they create can only improve the "emergent sandbox".

Wormholes have the best accoustics. It's known. - Sing it for me -
Geligdio Khan
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#2 - 2012-10-31 09:34:54 UTC
Totally agree, great post.

Thanks
rodyas
Tie Fighters Inc
#3 - 2012-10-31 09:37:45 UTC
Smacks of enlightenment and elite intellectualism.

Signature removed for inappropriate language - CCP Eterne
Kitty Bear
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#4 - 2012-10-31 10:16:06 UTC  |  Edited by: ISD Praetoxx
*snip*

Please keep responses constructive. If you have nothing valuable to add then don't post.
-ISD Praetoxx
Groce
Doomheim
#5 - 2012-10-31 10:21:07 UTC
When ambulation comes around station services will be player owned

That's the plan right?

Sorry I haven't played since 2006
Inquisitor Kitchner
The Executives
#6 - 2012-10-31 10:24:45 UTC
Tbh it's not even hard to justify lore wise.

What do you think would be better in real life, hiring a factory off someone who already uses that factory to make things, or owning your own factory?

"If an injury has to be done to a man it should be so severe that his vengeance need not be feared." - Niccolo Machiavelli
ISD Praetoxx
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#7 - 2012-10-31 10:27:56 UTC
Thread cleaned. Please keep responses constructive and on-topic.

ISD Praetoxx Lieutenant Community Communication Liasons (CCLs) Interstellar Service Department
Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises
Vote Steve Ronuken for CSM
#8 - 2012-10-31 10:30:48 UTC
Interesting question.

It's based off an incorrect premise though.

POS based manufacturing is at least 25% faster. It's just a bit of a pain as you have to shuffle materials between the lines.

Woo! CSM XI!

Fuzzwork Enterprises

Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter
Thorn Galen
Bene Gesserit ChapterHouse
The Curatores Veritatis Auxiliary
#9 - 2012-10-31 10:31:21 UTC
Archdaimon wrote:
What is the reasoning behind having NPC stations being the best place for manufacture?

I see a lot of advantages having POS'es being better for industrialism (refining, manufacture etc.), and anything owned or constructed by npc's at a serious disadvantage (or taxed). Refining is the most obvious of these.

- Null, low and wh would gain a much needed buff to their industrial efforts
- People who own poses in hi sec would get more out of them
- Wars would be started between corps who can actually fight back over poses in hi-sec (Wars that mean something).


It might make somewhat sense from a lore perspective, but honestly, from a gameplay perspective giving players the best tools in the stuff they create can only improve the "emergent sandbox".


Pretty decent comments there. Only thing though is that until the so-called "warfare" of "Station games" is somehow fixed, Hi-sec wars continue to be farcical.

COO - Bene Gesserit Chapterhouse  CEO - Sanctuary Pact Alliance
Cambion Andedare
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#10 - 2012-10-31 10:47:30 UTC
Archdaimon wrote:
What is the reasoning behind having NPC stations being the best place for manufacture?

Look at it as economy of scale.
NPC factories are massive compared to player owned ones, so they can buy in bulk, train technicians in bigger groups, ...
Herr Hammer Draken
#11 - 2012-10-31 11:01:13 UTC
Well the POS already has enough reasons to build it and use it. If it did not nobody would build it. Especially in high sec where NPC stations already exsist.

Not sure the POS needs to be buffed more than it is already.

Herr Hammer Draken "The Amarr Prophet"
Barrogh Habalu
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#12 - 2012-10-31 11:08:35 UTC  |  Edited by: Barrogh Habalu
Cambion Andedare wrote:
Archdaimon wrote:
What is the reasoning behind having NPC stations being the best place for manufacture?

Look at it as economy of scale.
NPC factories are massive compared to player owned ones, so they can buy in bulk, train technicians in bigger groups, ...

...who will be busy keeping empires supplied, only lending those lines to random contractors if they have nothing better to do. Here, the justification of why those have less services actually available for players.

Herr Hammer Draken wrote:
Well the POS already has enough reasons to build it and use it. If it did not nobody would build it. Especially in high sec where NPC stations already exsist.

Not sure the POS needs to be buffed more than it is already.

Well, they are enough for what they are built in hisec, which is exclusive functionality. Now, living just off POS (hi WHers) would be painful if you want to use if for something else but storing stuff and maybe do some usual science-related activity there.

Future of T3 cruisers - multi-tool they aspired to be instead of sledgehammer they have become
Rordan D'Kherr
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#13 - 2012-10-31 11:34:26 UTC
Well, OP is right.

I can see no reason for the fact that nullsec corps and alliances buy their stuff in Jita because empire industry can produce at better conditions and / or cheaper.

It should be the other way around.

Don't be scared, because being afk is not a crime.
Ghazu
#14 - 2012-10-31 12:04:40 UTC
10/10 and look at that no one is getting mad, just yet.
I am willing to concede to a halt of highsec manufacturing provided that low and null get buffed first, for starters.

http://www.minerbumping.com/ lol what the christ https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2299984#post2299984
ISD Praetoxx
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#15 - 2012-10-31 12:11:05 UTC
Steve Ronuken wrote:
Interesting question.

It's based off an incorrect premise though.

POS based manufacturing is at least 25% faster. It's just a bit of a pain as you have to shuffle materials between the lines.


I share your pain. Especially when you have 6-8 arrays you need to keep stocked. It is like POS fueling 1.0 all over again.

ISD Praetoxx Lieutenant Community Communication Liasons (CCLs) Interstellar Service Department
Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises
Vote Steve Ronuken for CSM
#16 - 2012-10-31 12:56:15 UTC
ISD Praetoxx wrote:
Steve Ronuken wrote:
Interesting question.

It's based off an incorrect premise though.

POS based manufacturing is at least 25% faster. It's just a bit of a pain as you have to shuffle materials between the lines.


I share your pain. Especially when you have 6-8 arrays you need to keep stocked. It is like POS fueling 1.0 all over again.


Helps to keep a Component array near them. Anchored right you can get 7 EAAs within 3000m of it, with an easy route in for a freighter. Stock up the CAA, and shift materials from there to the EAAs as needed. You don't need any cargo space to do it, so a shuttle or frig is fine.


There can also be problems with roles and so on, but that's a whole different complaint.

Woo! CSM XI!

Fuzzwork Enterprises

Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter
HalfArse
Wixo Trading Co.
#17 - 2012-10-31 13:25:49 UTC
Herr Hammer Draken wrote:
Well the POS already has enough reasons to build it and use it. If it did not nobody would build it. Especially in high sec where NPC stations already exists.

Not sure the POS needs to be buffed more than it is already.


not really. When they were used for sov they were obviously important. When a few moon mining/reaction towers could actually make a medium sized corp a decent income with the need for R64 moons they were useful.

Now, unless you need it as a safe spot or jump bridge thingy in 0.0 or to live out of in WH there only other job is for labs. I was going to put one up in low-sec a while ago just for that reason when i found a moon that i thought i could just about get enough money from to cover the fuel costs but at ever the market changed and now the fuel costs arnt worth the research slots imo.

If I could do my manufacturing there as well I might well consider a high sec one and just pay for the fuel with industry profits.


BTW wasnt there supposed to be a big re-vamp of POS's a while ago? one that sorted out the corp rights and all that? (iv been out of game a few months and may have missed it)
Destru Kaneda
Black Rebel Rifter Club
The Devil's Tattoo
#18 - 2012-10-31 13:32:20 UTC
I endorse this product and/or service.

I like it best when the beats are naked.
Natsett Amuinn
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#19 - 2012-10-31 13:33:26 UTC
Herr Hammer Draken wrote:
Well the POS already has enough reasons to build it and use it. If it did not nobody would build it. Especially in high sec where NPC stations already exsist.

Not sure the POS needs to be buffed more than it is already.

I think the op is expressing more that when you build in a station you're basically paying another company to build your stuff for you.

When you build in a PoS you're building your stuff in your own station.

One would think that if I'm paying you to build my stuff then my stuff should cost more, yet it doesn't really work that way. I'd like to see a significant increase in cost associated with using a high sec station.
Archdaimon
Merchants of the Golden Goose
#20 - 2012-10-31 13:46:14 UTC
Natsett Amuinn wrote:

I think the op is expressing more that when you build in a station you're basically paying another company to build your stuff for you.

When you build in a PoS you're building your stuff in your own station.

One would think that if I'm paying you to build my stuff then my stuff should cost more, yet it doesn't really work that way. I'd like to see a significant increase in cost associated with using a high sec station.


This is very much the case.

Wormholes have the best accoustics. It's known. - Sing it for me -