These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

EVE General Discussion

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

Thread has served - Please lock, thanks :)

First post
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
White Quake
Doomheim
#141 - 2012-11-01 20:02:49 UTC
admiral root wrote:
White Quake wrote:
Absolute rubbish, there is no combat over the market, it is simply business, you don't see RL businessmen killing each other because Argos sold a stereo cheaper than Comet now do you?


From experience, I can tell you that both Argos and Comet *fight* to sell you expensive crap at a lower price than each other. That right there is real-life PvP (technically, BvB). I've been a victim of both of these corporate bastards ganking my wallet.

White Quake wrote:
PVP pilots should NOT be allowed to shoot in high sec at all.


And the troll reveals his true colours.


It as nothing to do with True colours, it has to do with PvP pilots leaving high sec pilots alone

As soon as a player even suggest that high sec be about production or merc corps, you instantly scream carebear lover

it is the same rubbish over and over on every thread

PVP pilots want super easy targets

Do u know why WOW is so sucessful? Because NO PLAYER is forced to play how others want to

i love eve online, i will be here till its dieing breath, but there needs to be changes made for the good of the game, not the tiny pvp grief areas
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#142 - 2012-11-01 20:04:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
White Quake wrote:
Absolute rubbish, there is no combat over the market
…and as luck would have it “PvP” is not an abbreviation of “combat” (that would most commonly be “cbt” or just “c”). Now, can you tell me what “PvP” is an abbreviation of…?

Quote:
you don't see RL businessmen killing each other because Argos sold a stereo cheaper than Comet now do you?
We only have, oh, a few thousand years of recorded history shock-full of examples.

The market is all PvP all the time. Even when you trade with NPCs, you are engaging in (admittedly ever so slight) PvP due to how the orders change when you fulfil them.

Quote:
Please don't lecture to me about pvp,
Ok. I'll stop lecturing you when you stop being wrong. Deal?

Quote:
Do u know why WOW is so sucessful? Because NO PLAYER is forced to play how others want to
Do you know why EVE is so successful? Because it doesn't try to ape WoW. Those that try don't survive, so it would be a rather stupid idea — stupid enough that only game publisher executives could think of it — to do so.
KrakizBad
Section 8.
#143 - 2012-11-01 20:05:32 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Ok. I'll stop lecturing you when you stop being wrong. Deal?

Oh, if only. Sad
admiral root
Red Galaxy
#144 - 2012-11-01 20:08:46 UTC
Ok, I'll feed you a little bit.

White Quake wrote:
It as nothing to do with True colours, it has to do with PvP pilots leaving high sec pilots alone


Why should they?

Quote:
As soon as a player even suggest that high sec be about production or merc corps, you instantly scream carebear lover


I have no problem with anyone producing in highsec and the best war I ever took part in was against Noir., a merc corp.

Quote:
it is the same rubbish over and over on every thread


Otherwise known as the same arguements being used to refute the same nonsense because people keep spouting said nonsense.

Quote:
PVP pilots want super easy targets


Given such a sweeping statement you're including yourself as an alleged PvP pilot?

Quote:
Do u know why WOW is so sucessful? Because NO PLAYER is forced to play how others want to


This just in: Eve is not WoW. I'll leave Tippia to talk about success - he's much better versed in all the stats (and a lot smarter than me).

Fake edit: only 5 quotes per post? Really?

No, your rights end in optimal+2*falloff
Natsett Amuinn
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#145 - 2012-11-01 20:08:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Natsett Amuinn
White Quake wrote:
admiral root wrote:
White Quake wrote:
Absolute rubbish, there is no combat over the market, it is simply business, you don't see RL businessmen killing each other because Argos sold a stereo cheaper than Comet now do you?


From experience, I can tell you that both Argos and Comet *fight* to sell you expensive crap at a lower price than each other. That right there is real-life PvP (technically, BvB). I've been a victim of both of these corporate bastards ganking my wallet.

White Quake wrote:
PVP pilots should NOT be allowed to shoot in high sec at all.


And the troll reveals his true colours.


It as nothing to do with True colours, it has to do with PvP pilots leaving high sec pilots alone

As soon as a player even suggest that high sec be about production or merc corps, you instantly scream carebear lover

it is the same rubbish over and over on every thread

PVP pilots want super easy targets

Do u know why WOW is so sucessful? Because NO PLAYER is forced to play how others want to

i love eve online, i will be here till its dieing breath, but there needs to be changes made for the good of the game, not the tiny pvp grief areas

Pardon me,

In another thread you proclaimed that "no one is aksing for a completely safe high sec".

Did you mean to say that everyone wants no pvp in high sec, and just got confused on the wording?

PS: As a fulltime industrialist who only builds and sells, if you think I'm not engaging in market pvp you're a moron. NPC's aren't constantly trying to undercut me, other players are.
Dark Assassin15
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#146 - 2012-11-01 20:11:37 UTC
Pancakes...

[img]http://www.invokemethod.com/repo/failedsig.png[/img]
BoSau Hotim
Uitraan Diversified Holdings Incorporated
#147 - 2012-11-01 20:11:38 UTC  |  Edited by: BoSau Hotim
Savnire Jacitu wrote:
Vincent Athena wrote:
Players who like Pve will not suddenly start doing PvP. They will leave the game. And then you cannot shoot them. Whats the point of driving away all the targets?


False, I got sick of being killed and started doing PvP. I still get kill but on my terms now, and when I do the killing it is a much better expierence than any other part of this game. Hell even when I die I still have more fun.



Exactly, Vincent - what makes you believe that you know what decisions players make? I got tired of PVE and turned to PvP. Some peeps wait until their skills are better until they try PvP. So they participate in other aspects of the game until they are more skilled. I love wins, and I laugh when I lose. No biggie. Frankly your assumptions should be presented as OPINION, but you present yourself as if YOU know exactly what and why people do what they do.

OP your title for this post - that PvPr's should not interfere in high sec - You obviously do not grasp what this game is about and I doubt anyone can make you see it.

I'm not a carebear... I'm a SPACE BARBIE!  Now... where's Ken?
NARDAC
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#148 - 2012-11-01 20:12:03 UTC
Natsett Amuinn wrote:
[quote=Mr Epeen]I'm sure that CCP understand more than anyone that the game doesn't really work as intended if the high sec economy can't be impacted by other people. With inferno they removed a big part of how players could have an impact, hopefully with retribution and the bounty system we get that back, AND miners can use the same tool to fight back as well.

Retribution may not just mean high sec being able to fight back against pirates, but other people being able to fight back against the high sec economy which, apparently unknown to many in high sec, is effecting a large part of the rest of New Eden, and not in a good way.



So, give the freighter enough EHP to survive a high alpha, but give it little to no recharge. That way, moving a loaded freighter with a couple friend cross repping logi's can keep the freighter alive long enough for CONCORD response.

Wait... 30K EHP... never mind. That would be some alpha.

Seems to me we don't need to change the freighter. We need to change the mindset of the people flying them to have some friendly logi ships hanging around to rep them long enough for concord to arrive.

Or am I missing something? Are 30K alpha's common? Or would they just alpha the logi then take out the freighter?
Natsett Amuinn
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#149 - 2012-11-01 20:13:07 UTC
Dark Assassin15 wrote:
Pancakes...

Waffles.

With fresh fruit.

And whipped cream.

And a bottle of pepto.
Petrus Blackshell
Rifterlings
#150 - 2012-11-01 20:16:25 UTC
OP, have you realized you're telling PvP pilots how to play their game with their post?

Just because "PvP pilots" (I hate how you're lumping us all together BTW) "tell you how to play your game" (presumably with their guns, I'm inferring) doesn't mean you need to obey, listen, respond, or even not antagonize them right back. Just like by telling them how to play their game, they won't listen and will antagonize you.

You're playing a true MMORPG where your actions matter on those around you, regardless of them being PvE or PvP. This isn't a game where "MMO" means there may be a lot of people around you doing other stuff that you don't care about. This isn't Runescape. Welcome to Eve.

Accidentally The Whole Frigate - For-newbies blog (currently on pause)
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#151 - 2012-11-01 20:18:28 UTC
NARDAC wrote:


So, give the freighter enough EHP to survive a high alpha, but give it little to no recharge. That way, moving a loaded freighter with a couple friend cross repping logi's can keep the freighter alive long enough for CONCORD response.

Wait... 30K EHP... never mind. That would be some alpha.

Seems to me we don't need to change the freighter. We need to change the mindset of the people flying them to have some friendly logi ships hanging around to rep them long enough for concord to arrive.

Or am I missing something? Are 30K alpha's common? Or would they just alpha the logi then take out the freighter?



We dont alpha freighters. They have more than enough EHP, people just need to stop putting 20 billion in the hold.
Petrus Blackshell
Rifterlings
#152 - 2012-11-01 20:26:39 UTC  |  Edited by: Petrus Blackshell
NARDAC wrote:
Or am I missing something? Are 30K alpha's common? Or would they just alpha the logi then take out the freighter?

A Tornado alphas about 10k when fit out for it, and costs about 1/14 the hull cost of a freighter (looking at the current market). Freighters as they are right now have about 150k-200k EHP. This means that it costs slightly over the cost of a Freighter to instantly alpha it using Tornados.

To counterbalance it and make the gank profitable, the freighter needs to drop more than the destroyed Tornados' worth of goods. Since stuff drops at a 50% rate, that means that, to be profitable to gank, it needs to be carrying mroe than 28 Tornados' worth of goods. Let's round it up and say 30 Tornados.

The price figure for a gank Tornado I used was 80 mil ISK. 30 x 80 mil = 2.4 billion ISK.

Freighter hauling is safe for carrying up to 2.4 billion ISK of goods at once. Any more, and you're taking a suicide gank risk (you're basically wearing a "kill me, please" sign). See how simple it is to figure out how to counter those meanie PvP pilots and not present them with good targets?

Lastly, no, logistics wouldn't help. The whole point of alpha is to eliminate any chance for a response, which includes CONCORD, the police, gate guns, friends, logis, or anything else.

Accidentally The Whole Frigate - For-newbies blog (currently on pause)
BoSau Hotim
Uitraan Diversified Holdings Incorporated
#153 - 2012-11-01 21:05:15 UTC  |  Edited by: BoSau Hotim
White Quake wrote:
admiral root wrote:
White Quake wrote:
Absolute rubbish, there is no combat over the market, it is simply business, you don't see RL businessmen killing each other because Argos sold a stereo cheaper than Comet now do you?


From experience, I can tell you that both Argos and Comet *fight* to sell you expensive crap at a lower price than each other. That right there is real-life PvP (technically, BvB). I've been a victim of both of these corporate bastards ganking my wallet.

White Quake wrote:
PVP pilots should NOT be allowed to shoot in high sec at all.


And the troll reveals his true colours.


It as nothing to do with True colours, it has to do with PvP pilots leaving high sec pilots alone

As soon as a player even suggest that high sec be about production or merc corps, you instantly scream carebear lover

it is the same rubbish over and over on every thread

PVP pilots want super easy targets

Do u know why WOW is so sucessful? Because NO PLAYER is forced to play how others want to

i love eve online, i will be here till its dieing breath, but there needs to be changes made for the good of the game, not the tiny pvp grief areas



There you go again. Stating PVP pilots want super easy targets. You know NOTHING about PvP and PvP pilots - that is obvious by all your misinformed statements. Your generalizations are amusing though.

You just don't get the game or what CCP has created here. Just don't ever undock cupcake. Then you'll be safe from all of us greifing evil out to make everyone miserable pvp'rs.

I'm not a carebear... I'm a SPACE BARBIE!  Now... where's Ken?
Ginger Barbarella
#154 - 2012-11-01 21:29:26 UTC
Wall o' text.

There's probably a point there, but meh.

"Blow it all on Quafe and strippers." --- Sorlac
Lord Calus
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#155 - 2012-11-01 22:27:20 UTC
I only hate those groups when the start to whine that 0.0 has it better than they do, and how we need to be nerfed.

Ive said it several times, if the opportunities of Sov 0.0 even MATCHED what empire had I would never go to high-sec again. Sadly I have to go to 4-4 several times per week to buy ships, mods, skill books, ammo, etc. because they cannot, due to game mechanics failures, be locally produced where I live.

Actually that is a lie, I would still go to high-sec, but I would go for entirely different reasons. I would just be less bitter about the constant flow of BAW coming from empire people.

The grass is always greener I guess.
Shenra Twrin
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#156 - 2012-11-01 22:46:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Shenra Twrin
White Quake wrote:
Hello

As i have stated before i am not new to EvE but new to the forums. As a PvP pilot of nine years, i am find it highly disturbing the amount of hostility that PvP pilots direct at high sec PvE players, i do not use the term care-bear as it is derogatory towards other players who do not choose to game as i do. Below i am going to highlight issues i have with the current PvP pilot attitude towards PvE players.

1. We hate miners - The question is why? What is it they do other than play EvE online in a different way to you? The truth is, nothing, 0.0 alliances control the market, not empire corps, they never have. So why the hate towards miners?

2. We hate mission runners - The question is why? What is it they do other than play EvE online in a diffrent way to you? The truth is, nothing, The get enjoyment from buying expensive ships, running level 4's, watching there wealth go up and tricking out there ships much like i do for PvP. But, you don't like it? Seems a tad reprehensible to me.

3. We hate Incursions - The Question is why? What is it they do other than play EvE online in a diffrent way to you? The truth is, nothing, they love incursions, the love to make so much money, they don't know what to do with it, so what? How does this affect you? It doesn't, you just complain and get them nerfed to hell and back. Seems again, reprehensible.

4. We hate WH corps - The question is why? What is it they do other than play EvE online in a diffrent way to you? The truth is, nothing. You dislike they can hide in bubbles, make money and don't have to fight you, have cloaky ships (even tho you use these yourself). Again, reprehensible.

The bottom line is, PvP pilots dislike PvE pilots for one reason and one reason only, they choose to play EvE Online differently than you, for you to attack the PvE population verbally on the forums and to push your own agenda will not force them to PvP or force them into our play grounds. All you will force them to do is quit.

Also please don't rag in with *market pvp* because thats rubbish, the market is business. Not PvP. U cant swing it that way, so dont even try

I have been a pvp since 2 months after beta when i joined Curse Alliance and have been ever since, yes i have an ice miner (doesn't make me much isk) and yes i have a mission runner in a tengu (makes less isk than null ratting tbfh) so, in that regard.

You need to leave off because it is very sad and reprehensible that PvP pilots think you have god given right to tell other people how to play a game they pay for. You can sit and say Market PvP and Trade PvP and blah blah PvP but they don't see it like that and should not be forced to.

When a player "pays" to play EvE Online, they should not then be forced to play how a PvP pilot demands he does, it is beyond selfish.


WOWOHOHWOW OP you getting something extremly wrong here!
We dont hate PVE guys, WE DO IT FOR THE TEARS
Lady Spank
Get Out Nasty Face
#157 - 2012-11-01 23:15:13 UTC
Forum alts, go home.

(ಠ_ృ) ~ It Takes a Million Years to Become Diamonds So Lets Just Burn Like Coal Until the Sky's Black ~ (ಠ_ృ)
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#158 - 2012-11-02 03:33:55 UTC
Lady Spank wrote:
Forum alts, go home.

They're forum alts.

This IS their home.

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
SmilingVagrant
Doomheim
#159 - 2012-11-02 03:37:44 UTC
Did that guy up there really talk about making this game more like WoW?

Does anyone really want that?
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#160 - 2012-11-02 04:29:17 UTC
admiral root wrote:
White Quake wrote:
Absolute rubbish, there is no combat over the market, it is simply business, you don't see RL businessmen killing each other because Argos sold a stereo cheaper than Comet now do you?


From experience, I can tell you that both Argos and Comet *fight* to sell you expensive crap at a lower price than each other. That right there is real-life PvP (technically, BvB). I've been a victim of both of these corporate bastards ganking my wallet.

White Quake wrote:
PVP pilots should NOT be allowed to shoot in high sec at all.


And the troll reveals his true colours.


In yesterdays news, Argos have successfully ganked Comet, they're going into administration as of next week.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-20164228

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack