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Everybody is doing freighter ganks in High Sec now ...

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baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#221 - 2012-11-03 12:54:41 UTC
Opertone wrote:
damm, 1 low slot for a DC II (damage control, freighters have a lot of structure)

It will make ganking a lot harder.

60 CPU and one low slot and one powergrid, CCP it is not much


And why should ganking be made even harder yet again?
Ocih
Space Mermaids
#222 - 2012-11-03 12:57:54 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Opertone wrote:
damm, 1 low slot for a DC II (damage control, freighters have a lot of structure)

It will make ganking a lot harder.

60 CPU and one low slot and one powergrid, CCP it is not much


And why should ganking be made even harder yet again?


Because you are abusing the mechanics.
Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#223 - 2012-11-03 13:00:58 UTC
Where's the abuse?

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#224 - 2012-11-03 13:03:39 UTC
Ocih wrote:
[quote=baltec1]

Because you are abusing the mechanics.


And what mechanics would those be?

Before you say it, freighter pilot stupidity is not a mechanic.
Ocih
Space Mermaids
#225 - 2012-11-03 13:04:42 UTC
Lord Zim wrote:
Where's the abuse?


I'm not allowed to discuss exploits on the forum.
Qin Tawate
Doomheim
#226 - 2012-11-03 13:05:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Qin Tawate
Dave stark wrote:

also, you put 4bn isk of crap in a freighter, what did you expect to happen?


It used to be no problem for many years for 99 % of all freighter pilots flying through "high Sec", because freighter ganks were rare. Now Bat Country showed everybody it is indeed very easy to gank freighters and it became an extremely profitable profession. Now it is really not wise to fly around in such a badly tanked ship with a cargo that looks like being more valuable than the suicide ganker's ships. That must not be 2 bil ISK. The guy with the ship scanner often just estimates the value, sometimes overestimates it.

You get a nice freighter killmail, maybe some nice loot drops and if something goes wrong, you just lost a few crap fit destroyers and BCs. That is the classic no risk pvp. You risk nothing big, but if you do not make a stupid mistake, you get a garantied Capital kill.
Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#227 - 2012-11-03 13:05:40 UTC
Ocih wrote:
Lord Zim wrote:
Where's the abuse?


I'm not allowed to discuss exploits on the forum.

That's just a bullshit response because there are no exploits being used, and you know it.

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#228 - 2012-11-03 13:06:45 UTC
Ocih wrote:
Lord Zim wrote:
Where's the abuse?


I'm not allowed to discuss exploits on the forum.


Yes you can. You just cant explain how to do them.

Now please tell use what exploits we are using.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#229 - 2012-11-03 13:08:41 UTC
Qin Tawate wrote:
Dave stark wrote:

also, you put 4bn isk of crap in a freighter, what did you expect to happen?


It used to be no problem for many years for 99 % of all freighter pilots flying through "high Sec", because freighter ganks were rare. Now Bat Country showed everybody it is indeed very easy to gank freighters and it became an extremely profitable profession. Now it is really not wise to fly around in such a badly tanked ship with a cargo that looks like being more valuable than the suicide ganker's ships. That must not be 2 bil ISK. The guy with the ship scanner often just estimates the value, sometimes overestimates it.

You get a nice freighter killmail, maybe some nice loot drops and if something goes wrong, you just lost a few crap fit destroyers and BCs. That is the classic no risk pvp. You risk nothing big, but if you do not make a stupid mistake, you get a garantied Capital kill.


These no risk ships costing around a billion isk and the drops not being garenteed. Yep, that doesnt sound like taking a risk at all!
Ocih
Space Mermaids
#230 - 2012-11-03 13:14:19 UTC
Lord Zim wrote:
Ocih wrote:
Lord Zim wrote:
Where's the abuse?


I'm not allowed to discuss exploits on the forum.

That's just a bullshit response because there are no exploits being used, and you know it.


No, that's the response anyone would give when they know they are being gamed on a forum.

And it's true.

You would almost think I was a goon or something Cool
Qin Tawate
Doomheim
#231 - 2012-11-03 13:16:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Qin Tawate
baltec1 wrote:

These no risk ships costing around a billion isk and the drops not being garenteed. Yep, that doesnt sound like taking a risk at all!


It is split over couple of guys, isnt it?

You go rat for your suicide gank ship 20 minutes maybe .. no wait, you have Tech?
The freighter pilot risks a lot more as single person for just wanting to bring something from A to B.

What you do is no risk PVP. Freighters do not shoot back either. The biggest risk you have, that you too stupid to calculate the DPS, you need, right. Overall it does not matter, whether a freighter does not drop something sometimes. Overall you make always a PLUS, that is why you do freighter ganks now every day. So again, it is no risk PVP with garantied profit.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#232 - 2012-11-03 13:20:38 UTC
Qin Tawate wrote:
[quote=baltec1]


It is split over couple of guys, isnt it?

You go rat for your suicide gank ship 20 minutes maybe .. no wait, you have Tech?
The freighter pilot risks a lot more as single person for just wanting to bring something from A to B.

What you do is no risk PVP. Freighters do not shoot back either. The biggest risk you have, that you too stupid to calculate the DPS you need right. Overall it does not matter, whether a freighter does not drop something sometimes. Overall you make always a PLUS, that is why you do freighter ganks now every day. So again, it is no risk PVP.



Its 100% risk pvp. We lose our ships no matter what happens. We might miscalculate and not kill the ship, it might not drop anything at all. Hell it could even turn out to be double wrapped trit again. WT might arrive and break up the camp, the freighter might have an escort ect.

Only fools think ganking freighters is risk free. The difference between us and the people who want to nerf ganking is that we accept the risk.
Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#233 - 2012-11-03 13:20:49 UTC
Qin Tawate wrote:
It is split over couple of guys, isnt it?

So's the payout. And you're right, it's not really a risk, it's more of a certainty, since obviously it'd be an exploit to evade concord.

Qin Tawate wrote:
What you do is no risk PVP.

I'm sure this matters a lot. Hotdropping ratting supers etc are generally no risk PVP as well, in fact it's less risk than ganking freighters, since ganking freighter means you're certain to lose your ship, while ganking supers, not so much.

Qin Tawate wrote:
Freighters do not shoot back either.

Their corpmates can shoot back. I guess people keep forgetting this.

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat
Qin Tawate
Doomheim
#234 - 2012-11-03 13:27:15 UTC
baltec1 wrote:


Its 100% risk pvp. We lose our ships no matter what happens. We might miscalculate and not kill the ship, it might not drop anything at all. Hell it could even turn out to be double wrapped trit again. WT might arrive and break up the camp, the freighter might have an escort ect.

Only fools think ganking freighters is risk free. The difference between us and the people who want to nerf ganking is that we accept the risk.


Thank you for the free bump of my thread. Ok, lets reiterate:

- nobody shoots you back
- freighters cant run away
- you know, you lose your ship, so you put a crap fit on it and only lose t1 ships
- you know, if you not succeed at one attempt, your profit will come after several kills
- you get a nice Freigther kill mail
- it is called suicide gank and not combat for a reason.
Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#235 - 2012-11-03 13:31:24 UTC
Qin Tawate wrote:
Thank you for the free bump of my thread. Ok, lets reiterate:

- nobody shoots you back

Because nobody tries to get a corp escort going when hauling very expensive ****.

Qin Tawate wrote:
- freighters cant run away
- you know, you lose your ship, so you put a crap fit on it and only lose t1 ships
- you know, if you not succeed at one attempt, your profit will come after several kills
- you get a nice Freigther kill mail
- it is called suicide gank and not combat for a reason.

And this is different from most nullsec supers ganks, how?

Oh yeah, the lack of a certainty you will lose a cheap ship while ganking it, and a supercarrier can shoot back meagerly.

GUESS WE'D BEST OUTLAW AGGRESSION ENTIRELY IN HISEC THEN!

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#236 - 2012-11-03 13:31:26 UTC  |  Edited by: baltec1
Qin Tawate wrote:


Thank you for the free bump of my thread. Ok, lets reiterate:

- nobody shoots you back
- freighters cant run away
- you know, you lose your ship, so you put a crap fit on it and only lose t1 ships
- you know, if you not succeed at one attempt, your profit will come after several kills
- you get a nice Freigther kill mail
- it is called suicide gank and not combat for a reason.


-They get kill rights so they can shoot us back, they can war dec us, they can hire mercs, they can tell our current war targets where we are, they can suicide gank us back, ect ect.
-Neither can most ships that have a warp disruptor on them
-t1 fitted ships are not good enough, we use t2 fitted ships that amount to around 80 to 100 mil each. Not exactly cheap.
-Thats because we pick and chose our targets. The smart freighters not get bothered.
-We only use it to track our taking for the month. We also post up our losses.
-We use guns and shoot stuff. Sounds fairly combatant to me.
Qin Tawate
Doomheim
#237 - 2012-11-03 13:40:47 UTC
baltec1 wrote:

-They get kill rights so they can shoot us back, they can war dec us, they can hire mercs, they can tell our current war targets where we are, they can suicide gank us back, ect ect.
-Neither can most ships that have a warp disruptor on them
-t1 fitted ships are not good enough, we use t2 fitted ships that amount to around 80 to 100 mil each. Not exactly cheap.
-Thats because we pick and chose our targets. The smart freighters not get bothered.
-We only use it to track our taking for the month. We also post up our losses.
-We use guns and shoot stuff. Sounds fairly combatant to me.


- Most carebear toons cant use kill rights proberly. You know like everybody else, kill rights will be rarely used.
- Dont play dumb, it is way easier to tackle and gank a freighter than say an interceptor.
- Your suicide gank ships are still fitted accordingly and certainly will not be fitted that way for a real battle.
- You would not suicide gank freighters every day, if it was not profitable or any dangerous for you.

I ganked freighters myself in past. It was always very relaxed, because we knew, ship will die anyways, freighter will not shoot back, plenty of time to engage it ...

tldr you do not need to be a rocket scientist to be successful at freighter ganking. you just need a couple of guys and it is very easy.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#238 - 2012-11-03 13:44:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
Qin Tawate wrote:
Thank you for the free bump of my thread. Ok, lets reiterate:

- nobody shoots you back
That's their choice and their fault — not a problem.
Quote:
- freighters cant run away
Yes they can, actually.
Quote:
- you know, you lose your ship, so you put a crap fit on it and only lose t1 ships
- you know, if you not succeed at one attempt, your profit will come after several kills
Actually, you don't know that, since it's completely outside of your control, and no matter how much crap you put on that ship, it still quickly racks up the costs.
Quote:
- it is called suicide gank and not combat for a reason.
Gank = combat. Otherwise, it would be called ganc (short for gank cuddling) or ganhh (gang holding hand) or gansriacsk (gang skipping round in a circle singing Kumbayah) instead.

Quote:
tldr you do not need to be a rocket scientist to be successful at freighter ganking. you just need a couple of guys and it is very easy.
It doesn't matter how clever you are. For it to be easy, the freighter pilot has to be stupid.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#239 - 2012-11-03 13:45:49 UTC  |  Edited by: baltec1
Qin Tawate wrote:


- Most carebear toons cant use kill rights proberly. You know like everybody else, kill rights will be rarely used.
- Dont play dumb, it is way easier to tackle and gank a freighter than say an interceptor.
- Your suicide gank ships are still fitted accordingly and certainly will not be fitted that way for a real battle.
- You would not suicide gank freighters every day, if it was not profitable or any dangerous for you.

I ganked freighters myself in past. It was always very relaxed, because we knew, ship will die anyways, freighter will not shoot back, plenty of time to engage it ...

tldr you do not need to be a rocket scientist to be successful at freighter ganking. you just need a couple of guys and it is very easy.


-Not our fault they dont use them right.
-We also blow up frigates and shuttles that pack things like plex into their hold.
-They are fitted for our needs, same as any other ship we use in any fight. Different fittings for different jobs.
-We dont mind danger and we like profits.

It also doesnt require a rocket scientist to figure out that stuffing 20 billion into a freighters hold is not a good idea.
Dave Stark
#240 - 2012-11-03 13:48:40 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Qin Tawate wrote:
Dave stark wrote:

also, you put 4bn isk of crap in a freighter, what did you expect to happen?


It used to be no problem for many years for 99 % of all freighter pilots flying through "high Sec", because freighter ganks were rare. Now Bat Country showed everybody it is indeed very easy to gank freighters and it became an extremely profitable profession. Now it is really not wise to fly around in such a badly tanked ship with a cargo that looks like being more valuable than the suicide ganker's ships. That must not be 2 bil ISK. The guy with the ship scanner often just estimates the value, sometimes overestimates it.

You get a nice freighter killmail, maybe some nice loot drops and if something goes wrong, you just lost a few crap fit destroyers and BCs. That is the classic no risk pvp. You risk nothing big, but if you do not make a stupid mistake, you get a garantied Capital kill.


These no risk ships costing around a billion isk and the drops not being garenteed. Yep, that doesnt sound like taking a risk at all!


you forgot to mention it takes a group of people working together, one person drops the ball and you end up with concord up your ass and nothing to show for it.
i mean, people never have to quickly go afk without a word because they spill their coffee, their kid starts poking knives in to plug sockets etc.