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The Hypocrisy of High Sec

First post
Author
Asuri Kinnes
Perkone
Caldari State
#161 - 2012-10-31 17:43:38 UTC
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:
THIS^ right there ^

is why Local should be removed in 0.0 space.


Think of all the great emergent gameplay.

I *really* wish people would stop suggesting this - with known routes in and out (i.e.: "K" space) no local is pants-on-head stupid.

Period.

Full STOP!

The best reason (main reason) no local works in WH's is that there are *not* constant routes into or out of "WH" space.


THE defining things about WH space is the lack of local and Mass Limits.

Don't remove 50% of WH's defining characteristics!

Bob is the god of Wormholes.

That's all you need to know.

TharOkha
0asis Group
#162 - 2012-10-31 17:45:55 UTC  |  Edited by: TharOkha
Jenn aSide wrote:

You KNOW how to do it "right" ie the way the people who set up the forums intended you to and the way that makes reading replies easier for others, but you choose to do it in a more complicated way because that's what you prefer. I really don't care how you do it, but if your going to do something, you must also accept that other people will comment on what you do, even calling ti stupid (and yes, your posting reply style is stupid).


Now i realy dont unerstand why do you have need of expanding this silly "QUOTATION" problem Evil I have explained why im using this style and in what situations.If you have nothing more to write on topic, dont write at all Ugh

Quote:
That really is for me the source of my dislike. Do things as you please, but don't complain when you find yourself suffering the consequences of playing the game wrong lol


Where do i complain? Big smileBig smile Lol it is YOU that complains about "my-way-of-quotation-because-of-forum-limitations" LolLolLol

Grow up dude
Natsett Amuinn
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#163 - 2012-10-31 17:49:45 UTC
Killian Redbeard wrote:
Natsett Amuinn wrote:


And everytime someone suggests making it more expensive to build in high sec, high sec people rage against it; yet not one person ever explains WHY it would be bad for you guys to have higher prices on manufatured goods. High sec players act like people can't afford higher prices, in the mean time those same people are spending near 600m on a plex. WTF.


I have no problem with raising the manufacturing cost in hi-sec. I also have no problem with making so that refining in hi-sec is not 100%. It makes no sense to me why null can not refine at 100%.

I was against the mining barge and exhumer changes. I had no issues prior to the change. I have no problem with gankers or bumpers. Its what they enjoy. I have learned to adapt to these game styles.

I am against changing the mineral layout in hi-sec. Now, I would accept that mining belts move systems. I should have to scan down and move systems to mine.

We need more high sec people like yourself.

You sir, are truelly a pillar of your community; deserving of much respect.
Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#164 - 2012-10-31 17:50:44 UTC
TharOkha wrote:
Lol it is YOU that complains about "my-way-of-quotation-because-of-forum-limitations" LolLolLol

I don't know about anyone else, but whenever I see a badly formatted post such as what you've put forth, I tend to skip them outright. vOv

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat

Clystan
Binaerie Heavy Industries
#165 - 2012-10-31 17:50:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Clystan
If high sec has hypocricy, does low sec have lococricy?
TharOkha
0asis Group
#166 - 2012-10-31 17:55:05 UTC
Lord Zim wrote:
TharOkha wrote:
Lol it is YOU that complains about "my-way-of-quotation-because-of-forum-limitations" LolLolLol

I don't know about anyone else, but whenever I see a badly formatted post such as what you've put forth, I tend to skip them outright. vOv


obviously you didnt skip this one Blink
Marvin Narville
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#167 - 2012-10-31 17:56:13 UTC
Killian Redbeard wrote:
Natsett Amuinn wrote:


And everytime someone suggests making it more expensive to build in high sec, high sec people rage against it; yet not one person ever explains WHY it would be bad for you guys to have higher prices on manufatured goods. High sec players act like people can't afford higher prices, in the mean time those same people are spending near 600m on a plex. WTF.


I have no problem with raising the manufacturing cost in hi-sec. I also have no problem with making so that refining in hi-sec is not 100%. It makes no sense to me why null can not refine at 100%.

I was against the mining barge and exhumer changes. I had no issues prior to the change. I have no problem with gankers or bumpers. Its what they enjoy. I have learned to adapt to these game styles.

I am against changing the mineral layout in hi-sec. Now, I would accept that mining belts move systems. I should have to scan down and move systems to mine.


I think extremism and personal attacks tend to over run these discussions entirely too often, so in the spirit of intelligent discussion, this seems like a reasonable post. People have claimed that Industry and the Market are forms of PvP in eve, if that's the case, it makes sense (in my humble opinion) that the playing field be even, as it should be in any form of PvP, as equal competition is the most exciting form of PvP :)

So why not as a first step, perhaps CCP could consider tweaking Industry, Production, Refining, Research be brought on par with High Sec equivalents. This would provide an even playing field, and while it wouldn't quite..create incentive to move out to null for said purposes, it would at least remove obstructions and penalties.

This could be done either by nerfing the High Sec equivalents, or buffing them in Null Sec. I personally don't believe making goods cheaper is a good thing, as it is a form of power creep, so i'd lean towards a nerf to even the playing field, but either one would work it seems.

The idea here being quite simply, compromise and introduce changes in iterations so that the effects of said changes could be analyzed to decide if they'd be beneficial, as opposed to making sweeping and extreme changes right off the bat.

I'd be remiss if I didn't point out that personally i'm of the stance that risk should equal reward, if for no other reason than to create incentive for risk.

I believe mission rewards create incentive for players who enjoy missions, with more effort equating to more rewards.
I believe ISK creates incentive for industrialists, with greater industrial effort equating to more ISK (or at least ideally, on an even playing field)
I believe the same should hold true for those players who enjoy risk, wherein greater risk should indeed provide for greater reward.
DarthNefarius
Minmatar Heavy Industries
#168 - 2012-10-31 17:58:05 UTC  |  Edited by: DarthNefarius
Clystan wrote:
If high sec as hypocricy, does low sec have lococricy?



Si los personas estas loco alli
y estupido, pero me gusto luchar con ellos en el forums
An' then Chicken@little.com, he come scramblin outta the    Terminal room screaming "The system's crashing! The system's    crashing!" -Uncle RAMus, 'Tales for Cyberpsychotic Children'
Natsett Amuinn
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#169 - 2012-10-31 17:58:38 UTC
TharOkha wrote:
Natsett Amuinn wrote:

You're NINJA RATTING in somene elses space, and then go on to make a statement about them blowing you up. ....
You have no right to complain abut that, and don't say you're not because that's exactly what you've been doing.


If someone catching me because i stealing their rats... yes i understand.. you just protecting your teritory
If someone just passing by in a shuttle or pod and being killed by mighty gatecamp....somehow i cannot see any purpose.. And im not talking about passing your teritory. Im talking about NPC null or ordinary lowsec. Those guys sitting on gatecamp are not there to warmly welcome you. They are just sitting there and want to shoot anything that moves no matter if it is a shuttle or Titan (i know, you cannot gatejump with it) Actualy i dont see how this "activity" is more "fun" than sitting on belts and ganking veldspar- but as i said... Its their gameplay i have no problem with it. Just dont be so suprised why most of newplayers avoiding low/null (not me).

Again im not complaining. This is just my point of view of null sec players and their "gheto" mentality. Blink

I dislike pitbulls. They're aggressive dogs that are notoriously dangerous and tempermental. I don't think anyone should be allowed to own one.

I'm not complaining; it's just my point of view.


No, you're deffinately not complaining that people camp null gates and blow you up without prejudice. Not complaining at all, you're just expressing your opinion that it's bad and people shouldn't blow you up just because you're passing through; that's not complaining in the least.

It's almost like you don't bother to think about what you're writting. You're like one of those people that will just say something witout even thinking about what it is they're saying, and then doesn't understand why no one in the room likes them.



(for the record I love dogs, and thers's no such thing as bad dogs, just bad owners. That goes for pitbulls. Well, except maybe an akida, I've yet to meat one that was nice to anyone, they barely like thier owners, but what can you expect from a dog that's not that far down the evolutionairy line from a wolf; so it's not really their fault.)
Nicolo da'Vicenza
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#170 - 2012-10-31 18:17:28 UTC
TharOkha wrote:

Again im not complaining. This is just my point of view of null sec players and their "gheto" mentality. Blink

The mentality is heavily reinforced by the hard limitations of null game mechanics. As in the inability to develop an area of nullsec economy beyond raw resource extraction.
If nullsec industry is inferior to simply importing, then contributing indirectly into the local nullsec economy is pointless for the local powers that run the area and the only contributions that genuinely matter are ones that help control access to 0.0 raw resources like high-ends, moon goo and rats. If running a NRDS system helped alliances, then CVA would be the lords of null. But it doesn't, so they don't.
Jorma Morkkis
State War Academy
Caldari State
#171 - 2012-10-31 18:33:39 UTC
I've said this before and I say it yet again:
If you want to destroy my Skiff, don't whine, DO IT.
Nicolo da'Vicenza
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#172 - 2012-10-31 18:35:23 UTC
That should go in its own thread in In-Game Events called "urgent: destroy some random npc corp member's skiff"
Andski
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#173 - 2012-10-31 18:36:04 UTC
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:
THIS^ right there ^

is why Local should be removed in 0.0 space.

Think of all the great emergent gameplay.


"please make ratters blind so I don't risk failure when hunting them"

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar

Dar Manic
Dirt Road Services
#174 - 2012-10-31 18:37:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Dar Manic
It's funny how the thread is now discussing things which have little to do with the original post. For example:

Natsett Amuinn wrote:
Killian Redbeard wrote:
Natsett Amuinn wrote:


And everytime someone suggests making it more expensive to build in high sec, high sec people rage against it; yet not one person ever explains WHY it would be bad for you guys to have higher prices on manufatured goods. High sec players act like people can't afford higher prices, in the mean time those same people are spending near 600m on a plex. WTF.


I have no problem with raising the manufacturing cost in hi-sec. I also have no problem with making so that refining in hi-sec is not 100%. It makes no sense to me why null can not refine at 100%.

I was against the mining barge and exhumer changes. I had no issues prior to the change. I have no problem with gankers or bumpers. Its what they enjoy. I have learned to adapt to these game styles.

I am against changing the mineral layout in hi-sec. Now, I would accept that mining belts move systems. I should have to scan down and move systems to mine.

We need more high sec people like yourself.

You sir, are truelly a pillar of your community; deserving of much respect.


I agree 100% with the concepts in the above quote. Those are reasonable ideas to explore but do they have much do to with the OP? Don't think so.

p.s. I would be willing to bet many of the plexers have null-sec ties to them. :)

I just don't understand null sec players.

**Please note: **Anytime I use the phrase PvP in a post, I'm talking about shooting/combat/killing things/blowing things up. Thank you.

Jorma Morkkis
State War Academy
Caldari State
#175 - 2012-10-31 18:41:15 UTC
Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:
That should go in its own thread in In-Game Events called "urgent: destroy some random npc corp member's skiff"


Could be entertaining.
Hecate Shaw
United Freemerchants Society
#176 - 2012-10-31 19:05:45 UTC
Can't help but think that everyone is overlooking a simple fact - the changes they are so eager to make to push whatever out to null and to make null better than high sec do not fit with the game setting! High sec is supposed to be civilized space, with the protections of government and law enforcement. There is NO REASON it should not be the best place for industry. I agreed with the mining buff for the same reason - I'm in civilized territory, why should I have to armor as if I was in the middle of a war zone?

Sure, push the bulk of mining more into the frontiers (if you want to really annoy those who enjoy mining) or better make belts into something you scan down. Say, pockets one quarter the size of current belts, four times as many, and they respawn in a new place in the same system when mined out (with a delay). Give the bots and afk miners a setback, while not really hurting those of us that actually sit at our computers. Easy to justify, too: the regular belts in highsec are becoming depleted, and miners are having to search more for remaining resources.

As far as manufacturing in null...yeah, it should be possible to create industrial upgrades that bring an outpost close to the level of high sec, but to exceed it? In the lawless wastes? Not so sure on that.
Nicolo da'Vicenza
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#177 - 2012-10-31 19:10:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Nicolo da'Vicenza
The classic anti-null argument oscillation between "nullsec is safer then highsec and full of blues in the most complex social organizations in any MMO ever" and "nullsec is a lawless waste incapable of developing any real industrial organization".
Natsett Amuinn
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#178 - 2012-10-31 19:12:14 UTC
Hecate Shaw wrote:
Can't help but think that everyone is overlooking a simple fact - the changes they are so eager to make to push whatever out to null and to make null better than high sec do not fit with the game setting! High sec is supposed to be civilized space, with the protections of government and law enforcement. There is NO REASON it should not be the best place for industry. I agreed with the mining buff for the same reason - I'm in civilized territory, why should I have to armor as if I was in the middle of a war zone?

Sure, push the bulk of mining more into the frontiers (if you want to really annoy those who enjoy mining) or better make belts into something you scan down. Say, pockets one quarter the size of current belts, four times as many, and they respawn in a new place in the same system when mined out (with a delay). Give the bots and afk miners a setback, while not really hurting those of us that actually sit at our computers. Easy to justify, too: the regular belts in highsec are becoming depleted, and miners are having to search more for remaining resources.

As far as manufacturing in null...yeah, it should be possible to create industrial upgrades that bring an outpost close to the level of high sec, but to exceed it? In the lawless wastes? Not so sure on that.

Because the gold rush happened on the east coast?

Or how about the fact that high sec has this group called concord, yet no one's paying them to protect them. In no country is freedom "free". Yet in high sec you don't pay anything for the safety you recieve, that is enforced by CONCORD.

Or are you trying to tell me that countries with the highest defense budget pays the least for that defense? The US begs to differ with you.
Nicolo da'Vicenza
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#179 - 2012-10-31 19:15:28 UTC  |  Edited by: Nicolo da'Vicenza
Also,

Hecate Shaw wrote:
Can't help but think that everyone is overlooking a simple fact - the changes they are so eager to make to push whatever out to null and to make null better than high sec do not fit with the game setting! High sec is supposed to be civilized space, with the protections of government and law enforcement. There is NO REASON it should not be the best place for industry.

Why would it be in the government and law enforcement's interest to let feared, immortal space demi-gods profoundly removed from the rest of humanity produce endless amounts of warships and weaponry in their space? "Come to Amarr Prime - Emperor's Station for a special deal on orbital bombardment modules and Tornadoes!". I mean, try to set up a military-grade bomb factory in your garage and see if the local government agrees to that. Really, it makes more sense if the private sector weapon factories were set up in the outbacks, unsupervised wastelands and criminal dens.
Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#180 - 2012-10-31 19:29:49 UTC
Hecate Shaw wrote:
Can't help but think that everyone is overlooking a simple fact - the changes they are so eager to make to push whatever out to null and to make null better than high sec do not fit with the game setting! High sec is supposed to be civilized space, with the protections of government and law enforcement. There is NO REASON it should not be the best place for industry. I agreed with the mining buff for the same reason - I'm in civilized territory, why should I have to armor as if I was in the middle of a war zone?

No, it's not being overlooked, and it's not a fact. It's wrong. Nullsec is where you're supposed to build a proper empire for yourself, where the players themselves define the rules of conduct. This whole "hurr uncivilized space" bullshit is exactly that, bullshit, and it should be shovelled down the nearest bullshit hole as soon as possible.

If we, the players, want to move to nullsec and spend the time, energy and money to upgrade a system, then of course it should be able to exceed hisec. In fact, it should be able to exceed hisec so much it should make every carebear out there drool and want to get in on that cake. Don't want to participate in null, oh well so sad, be a poors then.

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat