These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

EVE General Discussion

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

The Hypocrisy of High Sec

First post
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
Karrl Tian
Doomheim
#361 - 2012-11-01 19:04:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Karrl Tian
NARDAC wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:
[quote=NARDAC]

No local works in WHs because no gates/easy access.



Does it really? last time I checked a quarterly report, it was something under 5% of the EVE population that lives in wormholes (2% if I recall).

I think lack of local is a HUGE part of why there are so few people there. This is a hint of what would happen to low/null if they removed local from there.


No, it's because it's hard to get into, farm, and live there. WH living wasn't planned or intended, it just sort of happened by innovation (which is getting rarer as EVE gets older).
Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#362 - 2012-11-01 19:05:08 UTC
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:
You can't force me to be an easy target

hurr durr YOU CAN'T MAKE ME DO THINGS I DON'T WANT! (but I can make life miserable for you)

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat
Anslo
Scope Works
#363 - 2012-11-01 19:07:08 UTC
Lord Zim wrote:
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:
You can't force me to be an easy target

hurr durr YOU CAN'T MAKE ME DO THINGS I DON'T WANT! (but I can make life miserable for you)


Boy you sure are a charmer Roll

[center]-_For the Proveldtariat_/-[/center]
FeralShadow
Tribal Liberation Force
Minmatar Republic
#364 - 2012-11-01 19:12:17 UTC
Eve is all about supplying the tools, and having people create the content. Mining ice in high sec for hours on end is no less valid than suicide ganking said miners with destroyers. However, that doesn't mean that things don't require balancing. Some tools just aren't as good as others, and some tools are way better than they should be.

One of the bitter points of a good bittervet is the realisation that all those SP don't really do much, and that the newbie is having much more fun with what little he has. - Tippia
NARDAC
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#365 - 2012-11-01 19:14:41 UTC
Lord Zim wrote:
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:
You can't force me to be an easy target

hurr durr YOU CAN'T MAKE ME DO THINGS I DON'T WANT! (but I can make life miserable for you)


No. You can make him stop playing this game and move to another game.

As you have no ability to force him to play this game, you have no ability to force him to be miserable while playing this game.
KrakizBad
Section 8.
#366 - 2012-11-01 19:16:05 UTC
NARDAC wrote:
Lord Zim wrote:
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:
You can't force me to be an easy target

hurr durr YOU CAN'T MAKE ME DO THINGS I DON'T WANT! (but I can make life miserable for you)


No. You can make him stop playing this game and move to another game.

As you have no ability to force him to play this game, you have no ability to force him to be miserable while playing this game.



So wrong.
Nicolo da'Vicenza
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#367 - 2012-11-01 19:18:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Nicolo da'Vicenza
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:

If we could have no local and let ships dial in system to system warp "Star Trek style", then everything the Uber Leet PVPer says this game should be, would be.

No it wouldn't. No local + static gates with l4+10% income would be by far the most risk in the game, without commeasurate reward. Highsec already has a disproportionate reward for its infintesimal risk, this would simply merely push that off the map.

From an offensive standpoint, it'd be bad because quicky there'd be no players to gank, just roaming gangs blindly crashing into other roaming gangs pointlessly.
From a defensive standpoint, it'd be bad because all fiscal incentive would be to put one's PvE alts in any other region but 0.0

If you lived in either 0.0 or wormholes, you would know this.
NARDAC
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#368 - 2012-11-01 19:36:40 UTC
KrakizBad wrote:
So wrong.


You have the ability to force people to play this game? Wow. How do you manage that?
Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#369 - 2012-11-01 19:38:59 UTC  |  Edited by: Lord Zim
Anslo wrote:
Boy you sure are a charmer Roll

I'm not here to charm anyone, this isn't a popularity contest.

NARDAC wrote:
No. You can make him stop playing this game and move to another game.

As you have no ability to force him to play this game, you have no ability to force him to be miserable while playing this game.

I was translating Herzog's post. With one breath he goes "you can't touch hisec", with the next he goes "but here's how we can make nullsec a ***** to live in".

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat
Nicolo da'Vicenza
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#370 - 2012-11-01 19:45:09 UTC
Lord Zim wrote:

I was translating Herzog's post. With one breath he goes "you can't touch hisec", with the next he goes "but here's how we can make nullsec a ***** to live in".

The Hypocrisy of High Sec
Touval Lysander
Zero Wine
#371 - 2012-11-01 19:49:35 UTC  |  Edited by: Touval Lysander
Lord Zim wrote:

Anslo wrote:
Boy you sure are a charmer Roll

I'm not here to charm anyone, this isn't a popularity contest.

There's a line there..... But alas, I'm in a good mood today.

Quote:
I was translating Herzog's post. With one breath he goes "you can't touch hisec", with the next he goes "but here's how we can make nullsec a ***** to live in".

I was translating Zim's post. With one breath he goes "you can't touch nullsec", with the next he goes "but here's how we can make highsec a ***** to live in".

Just sayin'.

"I've always been mad, I know I've been mad, like the most of us...very hard to explain why you're mad, even if you're not mad..."
Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#372 - 2012-11-01 19:53:24 UTC
Touval Lysander wrote:
with the next he goes "but here's how we can make highsec a ***** to live in".

Nope.

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat
Nicolo da'Vicenza
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#373 - 2012-11-01 20:01:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Nicolo da'Vicenza
I dunno Touval, for that clever reversal to really work, we would have to be against touching nullsec. Whereas in this thread we've agreed with many suggestions. That doesn't mean we have to accept the badly made, disingenuous arguments of some buttmad highsec carebear who starts making dumbass taunts whenever its calmly explained to him why his "idea" is bad (the actual purpose of his participation btw).
Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#374 - 2012-11-01 20:02:39 UTC
And we're not coming up with "but here's how we can make hisec a ***** to live in" suggestions, either.

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat
Asuri Kinnes
Perkone
Caldari State
#375 - 2012-11-01 23:38:51 UTC
NARDAC wrote:
Lord Zim wrote:
NARDAC wrote:
Does it really? last time I checked a quarterly report, it was something under 5% of the EVE population that lives in wormholes (2% if I recall).

I think lack of local is a HUGE part of why there are so few people there. This is a hint of what would happen to low/null if they removed local from there.

Negatives: no local, absolute **** logistics
Positives: spews isk


And yet, the "spews ISK" is not getting more than an itsy/bitsy number of people moving in.


I'd add the respawn rate of sites to the negatives. Everywhere else, there is always something to do. Get too many people in a WH, too active, and you can pretty easily run out of stuff to do.

Forgive the digression, but I couldn't let this pass.

Eve Fanfest presentation on the economy

Interesting part (relative to this thread) starts @ 3:00, distribution of players q1 2011 to q1 2012. "We are, in Eve, in the Law of Large Numbers - all changes will be gradual and small".

Next part (of interest) is where players >5m skill points are starts about 4:00.

As far as wormholes go, rolling wormholes to get a new transit system is fairly easy - and if you have a decent group of people can be done quickly, so "running out of things to do" is not really an issue.

The other interesting point is that the number of players above 5M skillpoints who are in WH's are players who (without WH's) - might have ended up in 0.0 space, but, for whatever reason, don't want to live there.

Don't write off wormholes so easily - you get out of it what you put into it...

Big smile

Bob is the god of Wormholes.

That's all you need to know.
Asuri Kinnes
Perkone
Caldari State
#376 - 2012-11-01 23:42:00 UTC
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:
Look I can understand some of you nullsec guys don't like the idea of no local because you won't have an instant intel tool. Even you lowsec guys won't see that local spike coming to bust up your camp so you can dock in your orca and hide in high sec.

So here's some advice for you guys.

1. Don't undock in anything you can't afford to lose.
2. Always stay aligned.
3. Learn to fit for PVP. Use your lows and mids for actual tank, warp stabs, and such other related modules instead of just fitting for maximum gank.
4. Get a scout alt to monitor adjacent systems.
5. Mash the D-Scan until your finger falls off.



These methods work in highsec. I know this because this is something like the same list I have seen handed from null and lowsec uber leet superhuman PVPers to people in highsec. So it MUST be good, right?


Oh and if you don't like your own medicine: >>>>>> WOW >>>>>>>

Local is pants on head stupid for null sec.

static travel routes and bookmarks make a "no local for null-sec" stupid in the extreme because all it will do is encourage the use of "gate watching alts".

Thats it.

It will not fix anything and in fact will make things worse.

Also: I don't live in null sec - I live in WH's, just to avoid that line of thought.

Bob is the god of Wormholes.

That's all you need to know.
Andski
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#377 - 2012-11-01 23:43:31 UTC
In my opinion, wormholes suck up a lot of talented players whose skills would otherwise be useful to newer organizations looking to move into nullsec. But that's another thread.

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar
Andski
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#378 - 2012-11-01 23:52:32 UTC
Dorian Wylde wrote:
Attacker has to either be very skilled at using d-scan or drop combat probes, and hunt someone down.

Defender mashes d-scan 360 degrees and leaves as soon as anything shows up.

Explain how it is at all slanted towards the attacker.


They do not have to probe anything down - if they're in a bomber, they can simply warp to anomalies while cloaked and hold their cloak until they find a target. They won't be visible on dscan. If you cannot see how this is entirely slanted towards the attacker, I can't help you, but you probably shouldn't opine on this topic if you are entirely unfamiliar with how nullsec works.

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar
Asuri Kinnes
Perkone
Caldari State
#379 - 2012-11-02 00:03:48 UTC
Andski wrote:
In my opinion, wormholes suck up a lot of talented players whose skills would otherwise be useful to newer organizations looking to move into nullsec. But that's another thread.

Yes we do.

You're welcome!

:P

Bob is the god of Wormholes.

That's all you need to know.
Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#380 - 2012-11-02 00:06:23 UTC
Asuri Kinnes wrote:
Don't write off wormholes so easily - you get out of it what you put into it...

I'm certainly not writing off WHs, I'm just pointing out the negatives, and if I weren't lazy enough to go to hisec to make money instead of ratting or whatever in nullsec, if local were removed I would've either moved to hisec or just say **** it and move to WHs, where the rewards are at least scaled up to match the effort and risk.

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat