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W-ORE ships

Author
serras bang
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#21 - 2012-11-20 10:48:53 UTC
what i would like to see is a hauler ship set between the 35 - 40 k of transport ships and the 970k frieghters something that is aroun 200k m3.

the noctise could become a more specilised salvage ship with stronger bonuses and the redundants prime could be made into the starting salvage ship.

i.e the prime would stay as is with little bonuses but could fit 2/2 salvagers the noctise could go to lvl 4 of apropriaot skill and perhaps lvl 3 on tractors and salvage and become the more specilised salvage ship. this would make a prie cheap enough to be used in low/null salvaging.
Hakan MacTrew
MUTED VOID
#22 - 2012-11-20 14:46:58 UTC
If you want something that moves close to 200k m3, then there the Orca. To be honest though, as a specialised command vessel, you just don't expect it to have to act like a hauler. Nor should it in my opinion. A hauler capable of moving around a similar amount of cargo would be good. Bit that sort of cargo size is mainly going to be either ships, ore or minerals. Hence why I have made the suggestions I have about an ore hauler and a ship hauler.

As for the Pimae, it was a gift ship. It was designed for moving PI materials. Why I don't know as normal haulers do the job just fine...
It will not see any other purpose as it is not produced by anyone.
Daichi Yamato
Jabbersnarks and Wonderglass
#23 - 2012-11-20 17:40:25 UTC
i wouldnt call the orca a specialised command ship. it is both a command ship and a hauler.

given the orcas appearance, a version truly specialised for moving ore with a vast ore bay would be interesting.

EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided"

Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs

Darenthul
Anstard Armory Inc.
#24 - 2012-11-20 20:04:32 UTC
I want to see a Mining Titan with a Doomsay Weapon style Capital Mining Laser.

But for more realistic expectations, a series of 2-3 Ore Hauling ships would suffice. Even a Drone miner would be awesome ;)

"I find mining to be an incredibly relaxing thing to do after work. It's like fishing without waking up early. Or cold. But the beer, the beer is the same." - arramdaywalker

Hakan MacTrew
MUTED VOID
#25 - 2012-11-20 20:44:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Hakan MacTrew
ORCA wrote:
Role Bonus:
250% bonus to tractor beam range
100% bonus to tractor beam velocity
500% bonus to survey scanner range
99% reduction in CPU need for Gang Link modules
Can use 3 gang link modules simultaneously.

Industrial Command Ship Skill Bonus:
5% bonus to cargo capacity per level
3% bonus to effectiveness of mining foreman gang links per level

VULTURE wrote:
Role Bonus: 99% reduction in Warfare Link module CPU need
Can use 3 Warfare Link modules simultaneously

Battlecruiser Skill Bonus:
10% bonus to Medium Hybrid Turret optimal range
5% bonus to all shield resistances per level

Command Ships Skill Bonus:
10% bonus to Medium Hybrid Turret optimal range
3% bonus to effectiveness of Siege Warfare Links per level

So, identical boosting bonuses. Its called an Industrial Command Ship. Yeah, I'm going to go ahead and call it a Command Ship.

And the price tag, for a hauler is immense. Fitted for hauling, your looking at around 800 million isk, so just over half the price of a freighter. For that, you get a ship that aligns like a decrepit snail attempting to dive out of the way of an on coming train, (much like a Freighter.) On top of that, you get a fraction of the tank and a fraction of the cargo space.

Lets talk skills then. It takes less than 30 days from character creation to get into any one freighter. It takes nearly 50 days to get into an Orca.

using an Orca as a hauler just doesn't make sense with facts like that. In my eyes, the Orca should have been an ore hauler. A T2 version should have been the booster.

As for Mining Titans, already been done and a couple have been popped.
Doomsday Capital Mining Laser. ORE-Deathstar then... Shoot moons with it to mine everything out of them and leave them a husk...
Drone miners? Their called carriers. Stick 15 T2 Mining Drones in a Thany and you'll get a decnt output. Having said that though, a specialsed one would be pretty cool.
Darenthul
Anstard Armory Inc.
#26 - 2012-11-20 20:52:10 UTC
Hakan MacTrew wrote:
ORCA wrote:
Role Bonus:
250% bonus to tractor beam range
100% bonus to tractor beam velocity
500% bonus to survey scanner range
99% reduction in CPU need for Gang Link modules
Can use 3 gang link modules simultaneously.

Industrial Command Ship Skill Bonus:
5% bonus to cargo capacity per level
3% bonus to effectiveness of mining foreman gang links per level

VULTURE wrote:
Role Bonus: 99% reduction in Warfare Link module CPU need
Can use 3 Warfare Link modules simultaneously

Battlecruiser Skill Bonus:
10% bonus to Medium Hybrid Turret optimal range
5% bonus to all shield resistances per level

Command Ships Skill Bonus:
10% bonus to Medium Hybrid Turret optimal range
3% bonus to effectiveness of Siege Warfare Links per level

So, identical boosting bonuses. Its called an Industrial Command Ship. Yeah, I'm going to go ahead and call it a Command Ship.

And the price tag, for a hauler is immense. Fitted for hauling, your looking at around 800 million isk, so just over half the price of a freighter. For that, you get a ship that aligns like a decrepit snail attempting to dive out of the way of an on coming train, (much like a Freighter.) On top of that, you get a fraction of the tank and a fraction of the cargo space.

Lets talk skills then. It takes less than 30 days from character creation to get into any one freighter. It takes nearly 50 days to get into an Orca.

using an Orca as a hauler just doesn't make sense with facts like that. In my eyes, the Orca should have been an ore hauler. A T2 version should have been the booster.

As for Mining Titans, already been done and a couple have been popped.
Doomsday Capital Mining Laser. ORE-Deathstar then... Shoot moons with it to mine everything out of them and leave them a husk...
Drone miners? Their called carriers. Stick 15 T2 Mining Drones in a Thany and you'll get a decnt output. Having said that though, a specialsed one would be pretty cool.


But I'm talking Drone Miners that are useable in higher sec, non-caps.

"I find mining to be an incredibly relaxing thing to do after work. It's like fishing without waking up early. Or cold. But the beer, the beer is the same." - arramdaywalker

Hakan MacTrew
MUTED VOID
#27 - 2012-11-20 21:59:35 UTC
Darenthul wrote:
But I'm talking Drone Miners that are useable in higher sec, non-caps.

And as I said, a dedicated Drone based mining ship that could compete with the current barges would be cool.

If it was possible to use 10 Mining Drones on this 'drone miner', and each one had a 50% yield bonus, they would still under perform against a procurer. I'm guessing this is a good idea for another thread.
Daichi Yamato
Jabbersnarks and Wonderglass
#28 - 2012-11-20 22:55:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Daichi Yamato
i didnt say it wasnt a command ship. just not a specialised one because it has its hauling perks...

its much faster than a freighter and most of its hold cannot be scanned and nor do the contents of its holds drop when ganked, save for the cargo hold. For hauling smaller amounts its infinitely more useful than a freighter.

edit- also at current prices its half the price of a freighter

Daichi Yamato wrote:
For the OP (and u paik if u want)

[Orca, Orca C2 - Hauler]
Expanded Cargohold II
Expanded Cargohold II

Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Prototype 100MN MicroWarpdrive I

Improved Cloaking Device II
[empty high slot]
[empty high slot]

Large Cargohold Optimization I
Large Cargohold Optimization I
Large Ancillary Current Router I


Hobgoblin II x5
Vespa EC-600 x5

This orca can haul 80 621m3 + 40 000m3 (120 621m3) of whatever u want

-plus, if u so wish, u can carry 400km3 of assembled ships (just less than half a freighter)
-u can also carry 50km3 of ore if u want
-it comes with a BS sized mwd for quick align times
-warps almost as fast as a BS (2.7au/s)
-has 91.5k ehp
-comes with drones for whoring on KM's or jamming ppl trying to gank u
-has secret holds that cannot be scanned by others and do not drop on destruction
-can cloak

AND

-can be used as a small mobile POS for corpies
-can boost friendly gangs (doesnt have to use mining gang boosts)
-can be used to swap from bait ships to combat ships (the basis of ninja pvp)
-can be used to support miners
-costs less isk than a freighter
-can be refit for 200k+ ehp fits
-can re fit for more space with another cargo rig (u would need a 5% grid implant to fit the mwd though)
-maybe the coolest looking hauler in the game

EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided"

Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs

Hakan MacTrew
MUTED VOID
#29 - 2012-11-25 01:41:37 UTC
I would still like to see a hauler with a similar cargo capability, with lower cost. Just for ore or ships. (Although the ship transporter has been mentioned as basically being a loot pinata in similar posts.)

As for scan proofing, thats on the way out. Corp hanger, ore hold and maintainance hanger will all scan and drop loot.
Beta Miner
COBRA Logistics
#30 - 2012-11-25 10:07:47 UTC
Hakan MacTrew wrote:
I have often wondered why tractor beams don't work on ships... Of course, hauling in this manner would be open to all sorts of piracy, involving bumping the container and the hauler away from each other and landing another hauler to take its place. Not bad.
Space tug...


I’ll counter this by saying –all- hauling is open to piracy.Pirate

But we don’t necessarily have to rely on conventional tractors per say. Perhaps the tug can fit a T2 tractor that can indeed pull ships around grid. But the ships real purpose would be to use the tractor to position the object, then to actually dock with a ship/jet can/pos module and tow it in warp.

The mechanics of docking wouldn’t have to be that difficult, I don’t think. CCP attaches things to the outside of other things all the time, like turrets and the subsystems on T3’s.

Also, some docking mechanic might eventually be coded pretty soon anyways as an element of the smallholding/POS revamp, so why not get extra use out of the existing code?

But whatever the mechanics would be, the tug and the cargo could be considered one object as it moves through space. That is until its ganked, the tug would blow up and the intact Dominix you where towing becomes loot. =)

AFK Cloaking? An afk cloaker has never ganked me. In fact a cloaker at his keybourd has never ganked me either.

Hakan MacTrew
MUTED VOID
#31 - 2012-12-03 09:23:18 UTC
I've had a bit of a re-think on the modular hauler idea. While I would like it to follow a similar principal as T3 tech, I don't want it to be T3 itself.

So, start with a generic T1 hauler, give it a bonus to ore moving. Otherwise, put it on par with the other racial industrials. Now use this as the base for a T2 variant. Minimal fitting slots, say 2 high, 4 mid, 2 low. Give it no bays to start with, but give it 2 subsystem slots.

Subsystem - Bay 1:
Generic Cargo Bay - General storage space. Nothing huge or amazing.
Ore bay - Large dedicated ore bay, (hopefully it will also work for gas.)
Corp Bay - Smaller than the cargo bay, but useable by corp and fleet members.
Reinforced Bay - Unscanable bay. Not too big, but enough. Also adds some shield HP.

Subsystem - Bay 2:
Generic Cargo Bay - General storage space. Nothing huge or amazing.
Ore bay - Large dedicated ore bay, (hopefully it will also work for gas.)
Interdiction Bay - Makes the vessel immune to non targeted interdiction.
Battle Bay - Minimal cargo bay. Will add a couple of turret slots as well as some shield resistances.

These options would allow for several combinations, including:
A generic hauler that can move more than the T1 industrials.
An ore mover that can move quantities of ore than similar to the Orca.
A fleet ore hauler that turns up in belt, gets filled with ore and moves it back to the station, (so mining fleets would only need 1 Orca.)
A scan proof, bubble proof blockade runner, (but no cov ops cloak option, the campers will still have a chance to catch them on the other side of the gate.)
A bait/battle Indy that can hold its own.

Does this seem fair and balanced?
Beta Miner
COBRA Logistics
#32 - 2012-12-03 12:45:33 UTC
Hakan MacTrew wrote:
Some cool ideas


It sounds pretty cool, but we have ships that do all these things. With tiericide the word of the day, the dev's aren't going to build something similar to an Orca, when we already have an Orca. Or a blockade runner, or a deep space transport, etc.

I think half our argument has been scuttled anyways by CCP Greyscale's dev post on Orca's ... if you scroll down ...

CCP Greyscale wrote:
  • Freighters will have most of their special-case restrictions removed: they will now be able to perform cargo operations in space, including moving items into and out of containers, moving things to and from containers in space, and jettisoning items

  • I think that kill's half our reasons for wanting an intermediate hauler in the first place.

    AFK Cloaking? An afk cloaker has never ganked me. In fact a cloaker at his keybourd has never ganked me either.

    Hakan MacTrew
    MUTED VOID
    #33 - 2012-12-03 14:38:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Hakan MacTrew
    Having now read tomorrows patch notes, I see what you mean.

    Expect to see freighters in belts surrounded by hulks with an orca looking on...

    Anyone got any other idea's for specialist ships using the ORE Industrial skill?
    Infinite Force
    #34 - 2012-12-03 16:24:47 UTC
    Beta Miner wrote:
    Hakan MacTrew wrote:
    Some cool ideas


    It sounds pretty cool, but we have ships that do all these things. With tiericide the word of the day, the dev's aren't going to build something similar to an Orca, when we already have an Orca. Or a blockade runner, or a deep space transport, etc.

    I think half our argument has been scuttled anyways by CCP Greyscale's dev post on Orca's ... if you scroll down ...

    CCP Greyscale wrote:
  • Freighters will have most of their special-case restrictions removed: they will now be able to perform cargo operations in space, including moving items into and out of containers, moving things to and from containers in space, and jettisoning items

  • I think that kill's half our reasons for wanting an intermediate hauler in the first place.

    To me, this code clean up they're doing by removing "freighter exceptions" is a good thing. The fact that we now have GIANT cans/haulers for Ops (hit up the test server and jetison a 110k m3 general freight container) is an awesome side effect. Sure the can may be stolen from, but it can't otherwise be flipped.

    Miners mine into a Tanked Booster Orca. Freighter pilot grabs from Orca.

    There is still an argument to be made for a mini-freighter as has been pointed out in numerous threads with just the main one I know of linked here.

    HROLT CEO Live Free; Die Proud

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    Beta Miner
    COBRA Logistics
    #35 - 2012-12-03 22:05:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Beta Miner
    I still think an Orca hull, with all the mining/command ship bonus's exchanged for greater ore and cargo hold capacity is a reasonable request.

    And dangit! I want a space tug!

    AFK Cloaking? An afk cloaker has never ganked me. In fact a cloaker at his keybourd has never ganked me either.

    Hakan MacTrew
    MUTED VOID
    #36 - 2012-12-04 11:23:01 UTC
    Beta Miner wrote:
    I still think an Orca hull, with all the mining/command ship bonus's exchanged for greater ore and cargo hold capacity is a reasonable request.

    And dangit! I want a space tug!

    I guess the space tug idea will have to wait until they do something with Ring Mining.

    Otherwise, I'm guessing the only thing left for the ORE Industrial skill could be a dedicated Gas Miner.
    Kalin Dyse
    Wardens of the Ethereal Gate
    #37 - 2012-12-05 06:41:17 UTC
    Pearl Canopus wrote:

    I only know the Caldari Industrials Badger and Badger Mark II yet.
    When I take 3 ORE haulers (not even ore haulers... ;)) so I imagine following:
    Hauler Mk1 (ORE frigate IV, Racial Industrial I, ORE Industrial I)
    - 3500 m3 common cargo hold, what can store about 10000m3 ore or 7000m3 minerals
    Hauler Mk2 (ORE frigate IV, Racial Industrial I, ORE Industrial III)
    - ndustrial skilled 6000m3 common cargo hold, what can store about 24000m3 ore or 12000m3 minerals
    Hauler Mk3 (ORE frigate IV, Racial Industrial III, ORE Industrial V)
    - Industrial skilled 12k m3 common cargo hold, what can store 60k m3 ore or 24k m3 minerals


    Only one problem with those 3 tiers of Haulers. Get rid of the tier's and make 3 viable roles and then CCP might consider it.

    I could see one specialized for high ore capacity with a bonus to tractor beam range. Light tank with high agility and good base speed. Basically something to zip around miners picking up their ore using speed and tractor range and then being able to get out quickly when hostiles arrive.

    I see no need for a mineral transport. We already have the blockade runners and the deep space transports which can carry a large amount of minerals just fine.

    Ttochpej
    Orbital Horizons University
    #38 - 2012-12-13 02:46:58 UTC
    They could just release the Jovian Mining ships...
    Mal journ
    Sebiestor Tribe
    Minmatar Republic
    #39 - 2012-12-13 08:03:00 UTC
    bump for being epic
    Hakan MacTrew
    MUTED VOID
    #40 - 2012-12-13 08:29:35 UTC
    It seems the idea of a modular hauler is relatively well recieved. Maybe not so much the ship transporter.

    How about a dedicated gas miner?

    The Venture is the only ship with a bonus to gas mining. It easily matches the output of any other ship used for gas mining with the ORE Frigate skill at 5 and it has plenty of GTFO potential. But is it tough enough to stand up to the damage waves from certain clouds and does the gas go to the ORE bay or the microscopic cargo bay? Also, it only matches other gas mining fits, it does not surpass them.

    Would a cruiser sized ship with gas mining bonuses and a decent tank fill the role better?