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Please lock this thread, trolls have taken over :)

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Author
Gogela
Epic Ganking Time
CODE.
#61 - 2012-10-28 21:14:53 UTC
Things started going downhill when forum sigs went away. Can't tell someone who gives a snip about the game from an unsubbed forum alt that's just here to troll. Just an observation... but no I don't think CCP cares all that much atm.

Signatures should be used responsibly...

Onyxius Leone DeSilva
Doomheim
#62 - 2012-10-28 21:16:09 UTC
Touval Lysander wrote:
Onyxius Leone DeSilva wrote:


They'd all get too caught up in trolling the forums to pay attention to the game. Cool

I saw what you did there Blink

CCP, buff forums.

Lol One can always hope?
Touval Lysander
Zero Wine
#63 - 2012-10-28 21:25:45 UTC
Gogela wrote:
.. but no I don't think CCP cares all that much atm.

Cares about what?

Letting people have some fun, chat about stuff and show some passion?

I LET my children climb trees. Doesn't mean I don't CARE.

Besides, what's to "care" about? It's like what, we NEED wowsers in a VR game world? Seriously?

PC on the PC?

You people really need to be careful what you're prepared to give away in the name of "decency" and "careing"".

"I've always been mad, I know I've been mad, like the most of us...very hard to explain why you're mad, even if you're not mad..."

White Quake
Doomheim
#64 - 2012-10-28 21:31:32 UTC
Touval Lysander wrote:
Gogela wrote:
.. but no I don't think CCP cares all that much atm.

Cares about what?

Letting people have some fun, chat about stuff and show some passion?

I LET my children climb trees. Doesn't mean I don't CARE.

Besides, what's to "care" about? It's like what, we NEED wowsers in a VR game world? Seriously?

PC on the PC?

You people really need to be careful what you're prepared to give away in the name of "decency" and "careing"".


Hello, i have watched your responses on here and you seem, hell bent on causing a fight, one question, for what gain? Or simply to feel like your accomplished something without really making any effort.

If i may, I'm probably a lot older than you, and in my advancing years you find this trolling/abuse/hostile behavior very sad, because it does show your personality out of eve, it shows, what you would truly like to be in life if there were no rules and no laws.

My advice to you would be to stop and leave it alone, simply harassing a player because your view is different, doesn't make you right, it simply means you have a different opinion. I am well versed on trolling behavior, we gank people for no reason other than we can.
Touval Lysander
Zero Wine
#65 - 2012-10-28 22:03:37 UTC
White Quake wrote:
Touval Lysander wrote:
Gogela wrote:
.. but no I don't think CCP cares all that much atm.

Cares about what?

Letting people have some fun, chat about stuff and show some passion?

I LET my children climb trees. Doesn't mean I don't CARE.

Besides, what's to "care" about? It's like what, we NEED wowsers in a VR game world? Seriously?

PC on the PC?

You people really need to be careful what you're prepared to give away in the name of "decency" and "careing"".


Hello, i have watched your responses on here and you seem, hell bent on causing a fight, one question, for what gain? Or simply to feel like your accomplished something without really making any effort.

If i may, I'm probably a lot older than you, and in my advancing years you find this trolling/abuse/hostile behavior very sad, because it does show your personality out of eve, it shows, what you would truly like to be in life if there were no rules and no laws.

My advice to you would be to stop and leave it alone, simply harassing a player because your view is different, doesn't make you right, it simply means you have a different opinion. I am well versed on trolling behavior, we gank people for no reason other than we can.

This is a common, totally incorrect and very poor argument - you do this in a game therefore you must be this in RL.

Firstly. I'm probably a lot older than you think. I'm semi-retired with teenage children. I'm also highly educated and wealthy. I did not achieve those things by being a "troll" or a "moron" in real life.

If that were true, I can assume that you'd be a church-going right wing wowser because of what you're saying? The thing is, I don't care. It isn't and shouldn't be relevant.

You're missing the absolute overall obvious here.

The char you are posting on is completely and utterly seperated from you, as a person. The ONLY thing I know about you is that you can type in English. That's it.

In Eve, I can kill, steal from, scam your character and yet, you're suggesting I cannot call your character a "moron" because that might be offensive? If we really want to impose an RL morality on people, as virtual characters to other virtual characters, we need to be asking if THIS is the place to do it.

Granted, there is always room for decency and courtesy wherever we are, whoever we are and perhaps whatever we are. But I don't need YOU to tell me that. The simple fact you gave us a history of yourself to mean you are therefore "more qualified" is an absolute indicator of the very thing I am talking about and is an immediate red flag to me.

If I am being a moron, disruptive, argumentative, disrespectful, whatever category you'd like to put me in, so be it.

That's my penance for being given the ability to speak.

And to clarify. No prejudice or malice is intended here. I can't, I don't KNOW you.

You are White Quake, I am Touval Lysander. Where do you fly? I want to come and kill you now. Blink

"I've always been mad, I know I've been mad, like the most of us...very hard to explain why you're mad, even if you're not mad..."

Mallak Azaria
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#66 - 2012-10-28 22:11:15 UTC
What is so original about someone rolling an alt to post a whine thread on the forums?

This post was lovingly crafted by a member of the Goonwaffe Posting Cabal, proud member of the popular gay hookup site somethingawful.com, Spelling Bee, Grammar Gestapo & #1 Official Gevlon Goblin Fanclub member.

Cutter Isaacson
DEDSEC SAN FRANCISCO
#67 - 2012-10-28 22:28:05 UTC  |  Edited by: Cutter Isaacson
Touval Lysander wrote:


The char you are posting on is completely and utterly seperated from you, as a person. The ONLY thing I know about you is that you can type in English. That's it.



Touval Lysander wrote:


In Eve, I can kill, steal from, scam your character and yet, you're suggesting I cannot call your character a "moron" because that might be offensive? If we really want to impose an RL morality on people, as virtual characters to other virtual characters, we need to be asking if THIS is the place to do it.



Touval Lysander wrote:


And to clarify. No prejudice or malice is intended here. I can't, I don't KNOW you.



To sum up

Touval Lysander wrote:


No prejudice or malice is intended here. I can't, I don't KNOW you....The char you are posting on is completely and utterly seperated from you, as a person. .... I cannot call your character a "moron" because that might be offensive?



You claim you do not judge; because you do not know someone. But you also state that you know that the persons in game character is completely separate from their real life persona. Then you ask why this person believes that calling his or anyone else's character a moron might be considered offensive. Do you see the irony in your statements and the flaw in your argument?

If you do not know someone, how do you know the degree to which character and real life personality are linked? And if you do not know this, how can you claim surprise that criticisms levelled at one may be perceived as attacks on the other? The simple answer is that you do not know anywhere near enough about the links between game and real life, nor does anyone else here, and with real life laws to be adhered to one must err on the side of caution.

Surely this makes sense does it not?

"The truth is usually just an excuse for a lack of imagination." Elim Garak.

Lyrrashae
Hellstar Towing and Recovery
#68 - 2012-10-28 22:59:15 UTC  |  Edited by: Lyrrashae
Good post, good post. Would read again :)

Yeah, these forums --and, IMHO, the EVE-community in general-- have severely deteriorated in the last year or so, especially. Although I suspect the rot started before that...Cry

(I'm not a "vet," but going on 4 years is far from newb. Certainly enough to have been around the block a few times, and to know what's what.)

This is just my view and experience (possible rose-coloured glasses, I grant), but:

Even just a few years ago, you never would have seen an utterly un-needed nerf to something (Heavy Missiles) just because a bunch of over-entitled whiny kids spent a year crying about it.

"Nerf it because it keeps killing me!!111oneoone! I'm entitled to not have to be a better player and having CCP protect me from my own incompetence by ******* over the rest of the player-base!"

You never would have seen the worst carebears in the game get an utterly excessive buff (the recent mining-barge EHP buffs, to near-battleship level in some cases) to protect them from the consequences of their own lazy stupidity because they consistently chose not to use the tools that CCP provides to everyone equally to protect themselves.

"I should be allowed to mine in perfect safety in hisec! NURVSUIGANKING CCP!!!!oneoeneone!!11" (Don't even get me started re-- CCPPoundSandWave's monumental hypocrisy, or CCPGreyscale's even worse utter cluelessnessEvil)

What you/we would have seen just a few years ago is that every one of these ******* waste-of-bandwidth crybears --and the "elite" of zerosec are some of the worst of that lot!-- flamed into oblivion, with plenty of "I can haz ur stuffs?" and "WoW, that way---->" and "HTFU or GTFO." Even from --or I should say, especially from-- devs! All this, as was --and still is-- only right and proper for EVE.

Now?

Not so much, to put it mildly.

Why have I tied this rather long tail onto this?

Because the nature of the Internet permits letting guard down and showing one's true self, and a lot of these peoples' true self is nothing but odious, entitled spoiled childishness, and CCP appears to have begun courting them to chase cash. Again (because that worked so well the last time!).

These forums are simply a reflection of the community.

And this community...It just ain't what it used to be, maing.

It certainly ain't what it should be, anymore.

And that makes me has a sad :(


Oh, just by the bye:

You think G/D is a cesspit? Well, yes. Yes, it is, but dude:

Stay far away from CAOD, it is just...well, indescribable, reallyUgh

Ni.

Touval Lysander
Zero Wine
#69 - 2012-10-28 23:05:58 UTC
Cutter Isaacson wrote:

If you do not know someone, how do you know the degree to which character and real life personality are linked

Fair enough comment. But from where I sit. That's HIS problem. If he wants to impose his own "linked" morality onto my completely "unlinked" lack-of-morality then the problem does not lie with me does it?

Let's get something straight. I absolutely despise censorship in ANY form - it sets tangible penalties using intangible points of view.

Having said that, it shows that I am immediately biased when people start talking about the morality of someone elses commentary based on THEIR view.

His VR char may indeed "inherit" his RL "expertise" but it's voracity can't be tested because we DO NOT KNOW the person - they're two completely seperate entities.

Read the intent of my post - not the method. I despise morality police.

We don't need them here - this, my NOT REAL WORLD.

I have morality and decency in my REAL WORLD.

I abide by it.

"I've always been mad, I know I've been mad, like the most of us...very hard to explain why you're mad, even if you're not mad..."

Val'Dore
PlanetCorp InterStellar
#70 - 2012-10-28 23:06:14 UTC  |  Edited by: Val'Dore
We all wear a mask when playing EvE, whether we want to or not. But the mask, like all masks, is still shaped by the face beneath it... and if someone says anything about Guy Fawkes, I'm going to Fawkes up your Guy's day.

Star Jump Drive A new way to traverse the galaxy.

I invented Tiericide

Touval Lysander
Zero Wine
#71 - 2012-10-28 23:07:25 UTC
Lyrrashae wrote:

Yeah, these forums --and, IMHO, the EVE-community in general-- have severely deteriorated in the last year or so, especially.

And herein lies the entire argument.

Says who?

"I've always been mad, I know I've been mad, like the most of us...very hard to explain why you're mad, even if you're not mad..."

Dinsdale Pirannha
Pirannha Corp
#72 - 2012-10-29 00:03:38 UTC
Gillia Winddancer wrote:
Well, wasn't there this one sexy suggestion about binding the new bounty system to the forums or some such a while back? Whilst I don't know whether CCP ever took that suggestion seriously it sure was interesting.

Where smack-talkers and forum knights alike would be exposed to the glorious risks of bounty life should anyone else see it fit.


Um, that is happening Dev 5th.
Lyrrashae
Hellstar Towing and Recovery
#73 - 2012-10-29 00:14:56 UTC
Touval Lysander wrote:
Lyrrashae wrote:

Yeah, these forums --and, IMHO, the EVE-community in general-- have severely deteriorated in the last year or so, especially.

And herein lies the entire argument.

Says who?


Says I, naturally enough. And because it's ME POASTING ON TEH INTERNET, that makes it valid, nothing else!

But seriously, now.

Re-read my post:

What we are seeing as matter of course around here now --CCP listening to that which should never be listened to in any sandbox game-- that was unheard of not too long ago, is evidence of this community's fundamental rot, and the quality of these forums is just one quite-obvious manifestation thereof.

Entitlement-mentality, in a word. Including entitlement to be a forum-prat, seen as natural by those who hold such mentality, and re-enforced by the fact that these types are much more common now than they once were.

But then, I never said, "Believe this, because it's the only right belief," now did I?

So where's the argument, then?

Or are you just trying to start one for its own sake?

Proper Forum-Fu is more subtle than that, Young One.


Ni.

Inquisitor Kitchner
The Executives
#74 - 2012-10-29 00:35:34 UTC


"Back in my day everything was better. Oh of course all the stuff that goes on now went on then too, but there was less of it and it was less annoying. Why can't things be like they were before, you know that time when everything was better, because the things that are done now were done in a better way?"

No offence to the OP but everyone thinks that the past was an amazing place. I genuinely hope if I look at the game in 2019 and I think back to when I started I don't forget all the problems with everything there were then.

People. People never change.

"If an injury has to be done to a man it should be so severe that his vengeance need not be feared." - Niccolo Machiavelli

Lin-Young Borovskova
Doomheim
#75 - 2012-10-29 01:03:09 UTC
Mallak Azaria wrote:
What is so original about someone rolling an alt to post a whine thread on the forums?



Because mentally disturbed dudes are not notified at subscription nor on their toon, therefore leaving them in their obvious frustration is the best thing to do, so they understand they need serious professional help instead of a game (one can only hope).

my 0.000001 isk

brb

White Quake
Doomheim
#76 - 2012-10-29 01:10:57 UTC
[quote=Touval LysanderFirstly. I'm probably a lot older than you think. I'm semi-retired with teenage children. I'm also highly educated and wealthy. I did not achieve those things by being a "troll" or a "moron" in real life.[/quote]

With all due respect, I doubt this statement very much. I have looked into your post history over the past week, it is pretty much constant. If you were indeed "wealthy" you would not be sat on EvE Online forums, nor would you be playing a video game non stop, you would be out living your life, doing what ever it is that wealthy people do.

In terms of people who say "i am highly educated and wealthy" this normally translates into "i am some what poor, have low self esteem and lie on the internet because people cannot prove otherwise".

Myself for instance, i am married, four children, i am not wealthy, i attended Oxford Brookes university and have a degree in IT, i live a comfortable existence.

Back to your point. The "real life" persona is a complete fiction, a simple study of Psychology will prove this, there have been numerous tests done on this in the past ten years. A player, if he/she is openly disrespectful towards others in "a game" is in fact very polite in real life, not confident and mainly keeps to themselves. However, this being said, a player who acts this way, would in effect act the very same way in "real life" if they could in fact get away with it easily. Now, you can respond with a intellectual argument about how wrong i am, and you are right, this will only further my point, if you take the time to dissect this post and point out flaws, id suggest logging off.

Since my last post, i have bathed three children, read two of them a bed time story, been to the shop, been to a friends house to pick up Photoshop and had a cup of tea and a bacon sandwich, in this time you have posted everywhere on the forums and trolled multiple people, a simple look at your posting history will prove this.

My question would be, what would a highly educated player with wealth and teenage children, be doing, posting on, online forums all day non stop, when you had money and children that need to be entertained? You would not, it would be terrible parenting and outright child neglect to plant yourself on your PC, not to mention a terrible role model?

Now, I'm off to bed as my youngest wakes up at around 6am and the other three, shortly after and so begins the day. I would suggest with your wealth and highly educated self, to think more of your children, and less time trying to look like a big man on the internet.

Sleep Well.
Touval Lysander
Zero Wine
#77 - 2012-10-29 01:26:33 UTC
Touval Lysander wrote:

Says who?


Quote:

What we are seeing as matter of course around here now --CCP listening to that which should never be listened to in any sandbox game-- that was unheard of not too long ago, is evidence of this community's fundamental rot, and the quality of these forums is just one quite-obvious manifestation thereof.

Don't you get it? Says who?

"fundamental rot" - is a view, not a fact. "Rot" in and of itself implies that the posting level is generally poor and applies to everyone. In my view it does not so it is NOT rotten. That's MY view.

We are BOTH right. I cannot disparage YOUR view just as you cannot disparage mine.

However.....
Quote:

Entitlement-mentality, in a word. Including entitlement to be a forum-prat, seen as natural by those who hold such mentality, and re-enforced by the fact that these types are much more common now than they once were.

And the winner of the "I am entitled" award goes to?

The person who is entitled to be here reading, enjoying and participating in said "fundamental rot" regardless of whether he is viewed as a forum-prat or a wise man. This includes the reader who believes it's fundamental rot even where others do not.

or

The person who is entitled to NOT read the "fundamental rot" and ADDS that I am NOT entitled to enjoy MY "fundamental rot" because it's "fundamental rot".

The entitlement is in the ON/OFF switch Padwan. You have NO entitlement to my OFF switch. Just as I have no entitlement to your ON switch.

I should not have the ability to make you read. You should not have the ability to make me NOT read.

Of course, you could now say to me, says who? Blink

"I've always been mad, I know I've been mad, like the most of us...very hard to explain why you're mad, even if you're not mad..."

Andski
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#78 - 2012-10-29 01:30:44 UTC
Riot Girl wrote:
Yeah, I don't think laws like that apply to a forum where people use avatars that hide their anonymity,


and hiding behind even more anonymous avatars to preserve the anonymity of their avatars

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar

Vimsy Vortis
Shoulda Checked Local
Break-A-Wish Foundation
#79 - 2012-10-29 01:40:13 UTC
Do people who post on freshly rolled NPC corp characters expect to be taken seriously when they claim to be eve veterans? I mean I don't think there's a claim you can make that loses more credibility from NPC corp alt posting than that of being a veteran player.

I'm also failing to see why a veteran player would feel the need to create an NPC corp alt to post with.
Lyrrashae
Hellstar Towing and Recovery
#80 - 2012-10-29 01:41:26 UTC
Andski wrote:
Riot Girl wrote:
Yeah, I don't think laws like that apply to a forum where people use avatars that hide their anonymity,


and hiding behind even more anonymous avatars to preserve the anonymity of their avatars



But...but...but...

EVE IS REAL(TM)!!!

(Sorry, but someone had to.)

Ni.