EVE General Discussion

You'll still be able to shoot through sov infrastructure at alarming rates dude.

Don't worry, that time and effort was not wasted. You'll still have a use.

So basically you are agreeing with the point I made, that the Titan's role was that of subcap blob killer.

I am perfectly aware of all the other stuff in your post, painfully so, but they are unrelated to the point I was specifically responding to.

Two PoV here:

1) Titans were a 'Holy Grail' to players to skill up for and use. Once many were there and flying them they got nerfed from an I Win button to a logistical ship

2) This paves the way for a capital gun platform ship to take on sub caps.

I don't own a super or a titan and realistlcally I don't think I'll ever be able to afford one. That said, I don't see the purpose of this nerf and, quite frankly, I don't understand it either. So titans can instantly DD a subcap, what of it? They're ships that cost so much more then anything out there that they should be able to instantly crush a subcap. Titan DDing only seems to be important in high lag situations or when one side has only a few critical ships on the field which a titan can DD. When lag doesn't really affect the battlefield, subcaps should be able to take out other subcaps at a far quicker rate then Titans could ever hope to.

If anything this nerf seems like something that would just embolden people to blob even harder with even more expensive fleet setups knowing that ultimately the more numbers you bring to the battle the better chance of victory. I don't really care for this approach, because it just seems like something to weaken smaller, elite pvpers when it comes to sov warfare and gives the larger coalitions, such as goons and the drf even more of an un-needed advantage.

So in a game with an economy awash with macro'd ISK, wealth fountains like tech moons, and almost 9 years for long term players to acquire fantastic wealth, do you think it's a great idea to balance ships purely on cost?

Really?

OK, what about a ship that costs ten times as much as a titan, that shoots a super-mega doomsday that not only destroys the ship, but deletes the character too. After all, if it costs 500 bill just for the ship, then it should be able to perma-kill a pod pilot.

Seriously though, the "It's OK for Titans to be gamefuckingly overpowered because they're expensive" argument has been debunked so many times and for so long now that you should be embarrassed for making it. When a single alliance can talk about fielding a fleet of them in the triple digits, they're not expensive enough to justify being that OP. If they were so expensive that there were only maybe half a dozen or so in the game (as CCP originally envisaged) then yeah, it would be OK for them to be OP because there wouldn't be enough of them to matter. But they're just not special enough for that.

So they have to be nerfed. Deal with it.

So far as I know 100 titans have never been fielded together - yet. Would you like to deny that they never will if nothing about them is changed? I'd be interested to hear your reasoning. But then once upon a time there was a time when no capital ship had ever been AoE doomsdayed on TQ either, then one fine evening it did happen and pretty quickly, the AoE DD had to be nerfed.

The "big picture" is exactly what I'm looking at. Yes it is reasonable that there should be progression in an MMO, with players having something to aspire to. No it is not reasonable that the object of aspiration should have 3 orders of magnitude more EHP, and an instapwnanythingsmallerthanme device, and the ability to easily hit ships 2 size classes smaller than itself. Even after the projected nerfs to DD, tracking and EHP, Titans will still be incredibly powerful, they'll still be an object of aspiration.

Solo titans can be killed, given sufficient numbers and sufficient player error, as you'll no doubt point out in a fallacious attempt to prove that ships that are routinely fielded in numbers of 10 or more are balanced. If Titans were normally seen on the battlefield solo then, as I said, we'd be fine. But the plain fact is, there's no reasonable counter to a fleet with many titans other than having more titans, and increasingly large fleets of titans are what we're seeing every day.

And as long as we're talking about "big pictures" just how high do you think it's reasonable to set the bar to be a player in sov space? Because the current trend is making a beeline for "supercaps or GTFO". That is, if you want to be an alliance that actually controls sov, as opposed to being a pet/renter/thunderdome, then the default ship requirement for your members will be a supercarrier or a titan. Sure, they'll need dictor alts, JF alts, etc, but every "full" member will need to be able to bring a supercap to the fight or he'll be dead weight. I don't think a game where a new player is told that he has to accumulate a minimum of 20 billion ISK and a character at least able to pilot a supercarrier, plus additional characters to do non fleet combat stuff, in order to participate in the sov game is going to fly very well.

I must admit, the Burn Eden tears in here are most delicious.

Please cry some more.

Death to all Supercaps.

My vote goes for a new 'capital killer' class of Black Ops ship with capital sized bombs (lol OP... i guess you could just be able to fit more than 1 normal bomb launcher say) and citadel torpedo launchers

So deal with the EHP. That also seems to be the problem with supers when they logoff as well. Reducing the ehp would mean you'd have to be much more careful about fielding them and a standard call to logoff might result in the loss of several titans to the enemy, not to mention in normal battle. I don't disagree that titans, and supers especially, could use a nerf, but I think this is going about it all the wrong way. Having titans on the field to deal with the most important subcaps by DDing them imo is a good thing, as they serve as a powerful force multiplier, much like logi but obviously in a different capacity. Removing that ability just takes away from the game by further constricting a relatively niche role. Compare that to a nerf to the Titan EHP, so that Titans are no longer invunerable pwnmobiles and I think you'd be in a much better place then you are now. And no, remove EHP, DD and tracking doesn't leave the Titan class incredibly powerful. It makes it about as useful as a severely overpriced, slightly tankier dread with the ability to bridge people.

Let's not forget it took PL 70 gank battleships and an additional 10 support and fifteen minutes to take out Jenessa: http://gkkb.dante.se/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=26309

You should consider over-exaggerating a bit less. Titans should be helpless against smaller ships because it is not a ship you should fly solo, it is a ship that should be supported by entire fleets. This change is nothing but good.