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freighter fits
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Gerrick Palivorn
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#21 - 2012-10-27 05:17:15 UTC
ShahFluffers wrote:
Phased Veldspar wrote:
Danika Princip wrote:
Can any of you freighter pilots tell us how much faster you align when webbed by a friendly?

Isn't that enough of an align buff?


Isn't that considered an exploit leading to bannishment?

It's a... "grey area" in the rules... shhhhhhhhhhh.


Their are a lot of 'grey areas'

MWD+Cloak instawarp

MWD Warp trick on the Orca

The forementioned Webbing trick

All happily ignored by the GM's and Dev's, I say if no one is being banned for it, use it.

If you're unhappy with your align speed, use the friendly web trick. If you are unfamiliar with this, please send me 13.5 Mil isk and I will be happy to give you the details on how to do it properly. Also it is relatively cheap for the reward you get from it.

MMOs come and go, but Eve remains.  -Garresh-
Souisa
Subhypersonics
#22 - 2012-10-27 06:32:00 UTC
ShahFluffers wrote:
Souisa wrote:
ShahFluffers wrote:
Souisa wrote:
Align times that take longer than 20 secs is poor design tho

Bear in mind that you can move entire fleets inside a freighter (repackaged of course) and/or seed entire local markets in far flung locations. ~900k cubic meters is nothing to sniff at.
In fact... the freighter is actually faster than some industrials per cubic meter, per jump when large cargos need to be moved... all due to its massive cargohold.


Its also very expensive so it better be better. It takes how many normal industrials to buy 1 freighter? Hell, it takes about 70 normal industrials just to afford the skills for a freighter.

You seem to be unfamiliar with the concept of "diminishing returns" in EVE. If you want to be more and more effective you must pay exponentially more. And even then, it's no guarantee.

For example: my carrier costs about 2 billion ISK. It has around 1.2 million EHP, can repair about 2k DPS (9K while in triage), and field about 900 DPS in fighters. However... I can be pinned down indefinitely by a 30 million ISK Malediction (T2 Frigate) using a warp disruptor and my fighters (valued at 15 million ISK a pop) won't even scratch it. Hell... Warrior II drones won't either if that interceptor is speed fit.

Souisa wrote:
Besides my point is the freighter is dull and that an align time of 20 seconds rather than 40 makes a huge difference for the pilot, not for the economy nor gankers etc.

Actually, 20 seconds makes a HUMONGOUS difference for traders. The distance between Jita and Amarr is... what? 30 or so jumps? Assuming that a Freighter pilot doesn't use the "instawarp" trick...

40 seconds x 30 jumps = 1200 seconds ( 20 minutes) just aligning.

20 seconds x 30 jumps = 600 seconds (10 minutes) just aligning.

And yes... you're right... not many players want to sit through 20 minutes of watching their ship just point in the right direction.
HOWEVER... this is INTENTIONAL.
It is this time sink that restricts trade between different regions and causes price differences... which allows those traders who ARE willing to put the effort into sitting through 20 minutes of aligning to profit.
This same reasoning can also be applied when the freighter is being used as a corporate/alliance asset to move war materials across the map.

Now... you may point towards Jump Freighters and their ability to use a jump drive to bypass all the aligning and warping. What about their ability to move ships and goods?
Well... there is a reason they cost upwards of ten times as much as a normal freighter and have around a third of their T1 brethren's cargo capacity.



What. Price. Differences? You need to proove that the excrutiating align time of freighters means price differences. How come the price on republic fleet phased plasma M is roughly the same in Jita and Rens, but if you go to molden heath which is just 5 jumps from rens, the prices are completely different. Its not true that the excrutiating freighter align time creates diversity in prices. Its not the driving factor.

On my opinion the only thing restricting flow of items and ships does is increase prices. And this is not even a significant change to the freighters, it will just make it an overall more enjoyble experience. Because first of all you can experiment with fits, but second of all you dont have to spend half the evening staring at the screen. In order words it will have minimal effect on the economy, but from the freighter pilots perspective who play an extremely important role in the economy, flying and owning the ship becomes a much more enjoyable experience.

o/
GizzyBoy
I N E X T R E M I S
Tactical Narcotics Team
#23 - 2012-10-27 07:02:01 UTC
ShahFluffers wrote:
Phased Veldspar wrote:
Danika Princip wrote:
Can any of you freighter pilots tell us how much faster you align when webbed by a friendly?

Isn't that enough of an align buff?


Isn't that considered an exploit leading to bannishment?

It's a... "grey area" in the rules... shhhhhhhhhhh.



Not a grey area its allowed.

If you roll a corp fleet one with say a command ship, and (skirmish links?)
you get faster align, faster warp times, combine with webbing your freighter, its all good, but now you need 2 specialized chars.
ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors
#24 - 2012-10-27 09:32:58 UTC  |  Edited by: ShahFluffers
Souisa wrote:
You need to proove that the excrutiating align time of freighters means price differences. How come the price on republic fleet phased plasma M is roughly the same in Jita and Rens, but if you go to molden heath which is just 5 jumps from rens, the prices are completely different. Its not true that the excrutiating freighter align time creates diversity in prices. Its not the driving factor.

Small items tend not to see much in the way of price differences (exceptions apply). This is mostly due to such items being easy to manufacture and/or being too easy to move around in "normal" hauling ships.

Other items like ores, ice, ships... bulky items... tend to see a larger range of price differences due to the fact that they are a ***** to move around.
And here are freighters... the answer to moving mass quantities of such items from place to place. And the only two penalties you pay for such capability is in being SLOOOOOOOOOOW and not being able to do much outside of hauling.

Taking all this into account...
it doesn't take a rocket scientist to see how faster align times for ships with enormous cargo capacities equals faster travel times and thus more stuff being moved around.
It also doesn't take a rocket scientist to see how more stuff being moved around means that the "bar" in the trading profession will be set higher and that making profits off of market hub differences will become more of a game of volume rather than smart investment and effort (i.e. you will actually NEED a freighter to turn a profit). Oh yeah... and alliance scale war becomes even easier because your enemies can move more stuff quicker.

Souisa wrote:
On my opinion the only thing restricting flow of items and ships does is increase prices.

Which is a sometimes a good thing (and quite intentional when looking at how Freighters and Jump Freighters are designed). If prices are depressed too much then the only profit that can be earned is through the selling of mass quantities of stuff and scraping the pennies off the bottom (which, as I pointed out above, means that the only effective traders will be those with freighters).

Souisa wrote:
And this is not even a significant change to the freighters,

Cutting the align time of what is technically a capital ship down to that of a battleship is quite a significant change. Also... read my previous posts. Those seconds adds up.

Souisa wrote:
it will just make it an overall more enjoyble experience.

Making gobs of money after a painful freighter run is very enjoyable. Making pennies off a less painful freighter run is less enjoyable in my opinion.

Souisa wrote:
Because first of all you can experiment with fits,

So long as you can't gain enough cargo space to bring a capital into high-sec I do not disagree with limited fitting options for freighters.

but second of all you dont have to spend half the evening staring at the screen.

See above. This is intentional.

In order words it will have minimal effect on the economy, but from the freighter pilots perspective who play an extremely important role in the economy, flying and owning the ship becomes a much more enjoyable experience.

You are vastly underestimating the the logistical capabilities of Freighters and how much they can effect markets. I've seen a single freighter turn a massive profit in far flung areas with one load. And the only reason this is possible is because almost no one wants to take the time and effort to slowboat a freighter into the ass end of nowhere and back.

Now imagine that everyone flies a freighter because it is no more painful that flying a battleship... but you can shove ~18 packaged battleships and their mods into each freighter.

How did you Veterans start?
Doddy
Excidium.
#25 - 2012-10-27 10:41:53 UTC
Souisa wrote:
It seems that people do not understand the core problem which is freighters are dull. You could easily improve the align time and warp time, without it wrecking the economy. The problem is freighters are boring and way too time consuming and they dont have to. I understand that they shouldnt be insta warpers, but they wont be with align time >20 secs. They would simply become less excrutiating to pilot, whereas they can still be tackled, ganked and what not


They are meant to be dull, freighters are probably the most game breaking and hard to balance ship in eve. Give them fitting variation and that balancing becomes impossible.
Mars Theran
Foreign Interloper
#26 - 2012-10-27 16:14:19 UTC
I agree that Freighters need some fitting, while also probably requiring a corresponding nerf to allow for fitting without making them stupid.

I disagree that Freighters should be able to align and warp fast, even with fitting capability. I also disagree that being able to align faster will make them "troll through lowsec and Null" as suggested. Even faster they would pretty much instalock. That doesn't mean they should align better than an unfit Orca

Solution:

1. Grant fitting.

2. Lower cargo capacity.

3. Decrease tank by dropping all shield and armor resists, then reducing structure amount.

4. Increase Inertia.

End result should allow for fitting better than current in any one area, but only marginally, and at a cost to something else. Make them marginally better, but not so much that it ends up being overkill, so much as less predictable.
zubzubzubzubzubzubzubzub
Souisa
Subhypersonics
#27 - 2012-10-28 03:23:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Souisa
The term "fast" is relative. Lets say their warp speed is increased to match at least a titan. Thats 1.5 AU/sec. Thats not fast compared to a frigate or battleship, but its faster than 0.75. And i honestly dont see how a titan can warp faster than a freighter. If not increase its default warp speed, then at the very least add rig slots

o/
Alexila Quant
Versatility Production Corporation' LLC
#28 - 2012-10-28 05:11:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Alexila Quant
Souisa wrote:
Hello,

I hate align time of my orca, and i hear its even worse on freighters and on top of that their warp speed is extremely slow. Its like double nerf. On top of that freighters are extremely expensvive and require somewhat expensive skills. Thats actually triple nerf.

There is no reason they should be nerfed in this manner, because moving stuff around is not a bad thing. Realistically freighters should have a slower align time and possibly slow warp speed, i agree with that, but the state they are in currently is beyond reason. To be honest CCP should consider putting a cap on align time of all ships, because current align times have become overinflated.

Basically Align time = downtime. Its time where you just sit and stare at the screen, its boring and discouraing. You cant measure how many people leave the game because of the align times, and its likely not a sole reason for people leaving, but it is no doubt a contributing factor as align time is actually a nuisance.

Imo CCP needs to consider wether they are designing a nuisance or an obstacle. There is a difference between the two imo. Having a game with too many nuisances will eventually make people quit. Having a game with obstacles will make people play. Basically what i mean is, a nuisance is something you cant do anything about where as an obstacle is a challange and something you can do something about. Thats the essence of any game, a challenge at the core consisting of obstacles players can overcome.

So the align times especially on freighters are a nuisance. It should be turned into an obstacle. And it could be done by giving pilots the ability to fit their freighters. First of all lets make it clear that the freighters have huge cargo-bays, meaning a 5% increase to cargo capacity is alot. For this matter a 5% decrease is also alot. Thats why i believe any attribute that affects cargo bay, regardless of its a bonus or "debonus" should not affect a freighter. This means there is no penalty in using an overdrive, however there is no bonus in using a cargo expander either. Its not unbelievable either, from the games perspective as because of the large and "special" cargo bay of the freighter, modules does not affect it.

So to keep things simple freighters shouldnt get too many slots. And to be honest the only slots that really matter as far as i can tell are the low-lots because thats where you improve align times and what not. However i actually suggest frieghters get high slots and med slots as well just to give people something to experiment with. I mean, even the old school industrial ships have high slots. So,1 slot each. 1 high, 1 med, 1 low on each freighter. I realise 1 istab is not going to make a difference on a freighter, it certainly doesent on my orca. This is why i believe their default align times should be lowered. Even if 1 slot/istab still does not significantly improve align time, the new default reduction to lets say 15-20 secs will have freighter owners rejoice, and as if that isnt enough the ability for them to expirement with fits although pretty limited, will just add to their satisfaction.
Well, thats why i think long align times are bad, and freighters at least could use an overhaul.


TL;Didnt read the whole thing but I did read these:


1:
Quote:

You cant measure how many people leave the game because of the align times

You can not substantiate that ludicrous claim in any way shape or form.

2:
Quote:
Basically what i mean is, a nuisance is something you cant do anything about where as an obstacle is a challange and something you can do something about. Thats the essence of any game, a challenge at the core consisting of obstacles players can overcome.

Actually align times on ANY ship can be reduced to next to zero with one alt (or friend because, you know, Eve is an ONLINE game) with a few webs.

And that's where I stopped reading when I realized you know nothing about warp/align mechanics.

I get the gist of your post tho. You want a freighter buff because a ship that can carry 900,000+ M3 of cargo doesn't warp fast enough for you.

Giving freighters fitting slots would be stupid. They don't have Power grid or CPU capacity because they are made to be hollow tin cans that move things from point A to point B. Allowing them to fit modules is ludicrous and nonsensical.

I understand that they can be easily suicide ganked in Hisec but that's why you run with an escort squad when you're flying a 1.7 billion isk brick, or at the very least a rapier with 2 webs so you don't sit there for 10 minutes aligning.

It's not a 'nuisance' as you so eloquently put it, it's an 'obstacle' that is easily overcome with a corp mate or an alt. If you're in an NPC corp well tough luck. It's the price you pay for being un-decable.
usrevenge
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#29 - 2012-10-28 05:43:35 UTC
been suggested before to allow rigs on freighters while nerfing them so that cargo rigs would = what their cargo is now... im all for it but many are not... hit or miss....
Souisa
Subhypersonics
#30 - 2012-10-29 00:23:17 UTC
Alexila Quant wrote:
Souisa wrote:
Hello,

I hate align time of my orca, and i hear its even worse on freighters and on top of that their warp speed is extremely slow. Its like double nerf. On top of that freighters are extremely expensvive and require somewhat expensive skills. Thats actually triple nerf.

There is no reason they should be nerfed in this manner, because moving stuff around is not a bad thing. Realistically freighters should have a slower align time and possibly slow warp speed, i agree with that, but the state they are in currently is beyond reason. To be honest CCP should consider putting a cap on align time of all ships, because current align times have become overinflated.

Basically Align time = downtime. Its time where you just sit and stare at the screen, its boring and discouraing. You cant measure how many people leave the game because of the align times, and its likely not a sole reason for people leaving, but it is no doubt a contributing factor as align time is actually a nuisance.

Imo CCP needs to consider wether they are designing a nuisance or an obstacle. There is a difference between the two imo. Having a game with too many nuisances will eventually make people quit. Having a game with obstacles will make people play. Basically what i mean is, a nuisance is something you cant do anything about where as an obstacle is a challange and something you can do something about. Thats the essence of any game, a challenge at the core consisting of obstacles players can overcome.

So the align times especially on freighters are a nuisance. It should be turned into an obstacle. And it could be done by giving pilots the ability to fit their freighters. First of all lets make it clear that the freighters have huge cargo-bays, meaning a 5% increase to cargo capacity is alot. For this matter a 5% decrease is also alot. Thats why i believe any attribute that affects cargo bay, regardless of its a bonus or "debonus" should not affect a freighter. This means there is no penalty in using an overdrive, however there is no bonus in using a cargo expander either. Its not unbelievable either, from the games perspective as because of the large and "special" cargo bay of the freighter, modules does not affect it.

So to keep things simple freighters shouldnt get too many slots. And to be honest the only slots that really matter as far as i can tell are the low-lots because thats where you improve align times and what not. However i actually suggest frieghters get high slots and med slots as well just to give people something to experiment with. I mean, even the old school industrial ships have high slots. So,1 slot each. 1 high, 1 med, 1 low on each freighter. I realise 1 istab is not going to make a difference on a freighter, it certainly doesent on my orca. This is why i believe their default align times should be lowered. Even if 1 slot/istab still does not significantly improve align time, the new default reduction to lets say 15-20 secs will have freighter owners rejoice, and as if that isnt enough the ability for them to expirement with fits although pretty limited, will just add to their satisfaction.
Well, thats why i think long align times are bad, and freighters at least could use an overhaul.


TL;Didnt read the whole thing but I did read these:


1:
Quote:

You cant measure how many people leave the game because of the align times

You can not substantiate that ludicrous claim in any way shape or form.

2:
Quote:
Basically what i mean is, a nuisance is something you cant do anything about where as an obstacle is a challange and something you can do something about. Thats the essence of any game, a challenge at the core consisting of obstacles players can overcome.

Actually align times on ANY ship can be reduced to next to zero with one alt (or friend because, you know, Eve is an ONLINE game) with a few webs.

And that's where I stopped reading when I realized you know nothing about warp/align mechanics.

I get the gist of your post tho. You want a freighter buff because a ship that can carry 900,000+ M3 of cargo doesn't warp fast enough for you.

Giving freighters fitting slots would be stupid. They don't have Power grid or CPU capacity because they are made to be hollow tin cans that move things from point A to point B. Allowing them to fit modules is ludicrous and nonsensical.

I understand that they can be easily suicide ganked in Hisec but that's why you run with an escort squad when you're flying a 1.7 billion isk brick, or at the very least a rapier with 2 webs so you don't sit there for 10 minutes aligning.

It's not a 'nuisance' as you so eloquently put it, it's an 'obstacle' that is easily overcome with a corp mate or an alt. If you're in an NPC corp well tough luck. It's the price you pay for being un-decable.


Read the whole thing maybe you will understand

o/
Souisa
Subhypersonics
#31 - 2012-10-29 00:29:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Souisa
ShahFluffers wrote:
Souisa wrote:
You need to proove that the excrutiating align time of freighters means price differences. How come the price on republic fleet phased plasma M is roughly the same in Jita and Rens, but if you go to molden heath which is just 5 jumps from rens, the prices are completely different. Its not true that the excrutiating freighter align time creates diversity in prices. Its not the driving factor.

Small items tend not to see much in the way of price differences (exceptions apply). This is mostly due to such items being easy to manufacture and/or being too easy to move around in "normal" hauling ships.

Other items like ores, ice, ships... bulky items... tend to see a larger range of price differences due to the fact that they are a ***** to move around.
And here are freighters... the answer to moving mass quantities of such items from place to place. And the only two penalties you pay for such capability is in being SLOOOOOOOOOOW and not being able to do much outside of hauling.

Taking all this into account...
it doesn't take a rocket scientist to see how faster align times for ships with enormous cargo capacities equals faster travel times and thus more stuff being moved around.
It also doesn't take a rocket scientist to see how more stuff being moved around means that the "bar" in the trading profession will be set higher and that making profits off of market hub differences will become more of a game of volume rather than smart investment and effort (i.e. you will actually NEED a freighter to turn a profit). Oh yeah... and alliance scale war becomes even easier because your enemies can move more stuff quicker.

Souisa wrote:
On my opinion the only thing restricting flow of items and ships does is increase prices.

Which is a sometimes a good thing (and quite intentional when looking at how Freighters and Jump Freighters are designed). If prices are depressed too much then the only profit that can be earned is through the selling of mass quantities of stuff and scraping the pennies off the bottom (which, as I pointed out above, means that the only effective traders will be those with freighters).

Souisa wrote:
And this is not even a significant change to the freighters,

Cutting the align time of what is technically a capital ship down to that of a battleship is quite a significant change. Also... read my previous posts. Those seconds adds up.

Souisa wrote:
Because first of all you can experiment with fits,

So long as you can't gain enough cargo space to bring a capital into high-sec I do not disagree with limited fitting options for freighters.

but second of all you dont have to spend half the evening staring at the screen.

See above. This is intentional.

In order words it will have minimal effect on the economy, but from the freighter pilots perspective who play an extremely important role in the economy, flying and owning the ship becomes a much more enjoyable experience.

You are vastly underestimating the the logistical capabilities of Freighters and how much they can effect markets. I've seen a single freighter turn a massive profit in far flung areas with one load. And the only reason this is possible is because almost no one wants to take the time and effort to slowboat a freighter into the ass end of nowhere and back.

Now imagine that everyone flies a freighter because it is no more painful that flying a battleship... but you can shove ~18 packaged battleships and their mods into each freighter.


It seems to me you have something against people making money off of seeding markets and hauling stuff around. But what is the downside to that?

o/
Jaison Savrin
Brave Empire Inc.
Brave United
#32 - 2012-10-29 01:50:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Jaison Savrin
Hello!

I love freighters. I own a Fenrir and 2 Charons in game on three separate characters. One day I hope to have a fleet of various freighters to haul about the assets of empires. I want to move people's and corp's stuff. To me this is the fun of Eve when I am not killing those evil NPCs. I only say this because I want you to know that I don't have anything against the idea of freighters. I like them the way they are! I really truly do. To me it makes sense that they are slow cumbersome beasts of burden. They are the elephants of Eve (or semi-trucks). They are extremely specialized. Freighters are the absolute most specialized ships in Eve. They have one singular purpose. They move things. They move a lot of things. Freighters move empires.


Because of this specialization they do have many weaknesses. These weaknesses are something you simply have to come to appreciate. I love watching a Charon or Providence slowly turn into warp.I love the way an Obelisk looks approaching a gate. I happen to think that the Fenrir has an excellent profile. I love freighters. I even love to think my Fenrir is full to the brim with escaped slaves every time I leave Amarr in it. There is nothing wrong with freighters as they are. Don't touch them. They are fantastic.

But, and there is always a but...

I do think that the industrial ship paradigm is in need of some help. These ships are simply some of the most specialized ships in the game. The T1 industrial ships, T2 transport ships, the freighter and its T2 variant the Jump Freighter are what they are. They can on occasion be used for other purposes (Battle Badger!) but in general they are useless at anything that isn't moving stuff. This is part of the reason I love them. Their purpose is clear but their uses many. That being said I would like to see an expansion of the industrial ship lines for people who feel like our OP.

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=94152

I saw this idea and fell in passionate love with it. Show support! OP, I think you'd like it too!
ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors
#33 - 2012-10-29 02:29:57 UTC
Souisa wrote:
It seems to me you have something against people making money off of seeding markets and hauling stuff around. But what is the downside to that?

I don't have a problem making money off of seeding markets. In fact, I actively do so. I just don't think it should be made any easier than it already is... or even nerfed slightly to encourage more localization of various markets.

How did you Veterans start?
Zan Shiro
Doomheim
#34 - 2012-10-29 03:01:22 UTC
fixes for your orca problem....pull the cargo optimization rigs, put on agility rigs. Want better warp speed, the warp speed rig. Yes this dings your cargo capacity. Works nice though. 2 agility rigs and the warp one even has the orca get some nice AFK times (ran AFK when empty....before and after very noticeable). Pick you poison, haul more slow as hell or haul less faster.


freighters are meant to be slow. In corp alt webber. I recommend a DD with faction webs, damn near like a cat shot off a carrier. they haul lots of trash....speed is their caveat.

Lots of ways around this. Webber or build up to big loads. When I did indy the charon runs were built up to. Charon is not go to jita for small runs ship. Load her up as needed, run alternative ships if need to move now now. I personally found 1 ninjya transport, 1 orca, 1 charon a nice mix. fast to slow scale right there and varying capacities. CCP not picking on the haulers here....every career field in eve needs more than 1 ship. Pvp'ers can have 3 of the same damn ship rigged differenttly, a carebear will have several mission ships for max effect on ratts and now with exhumer changes miners may need more than 1 exhumer to cover all their needs.
Souisa
Subhypersonics
#35 - 2012-10-29 06:50:16 UTC  |  Edited by: Souisa
Jaison Savrin wrote:
Hello!

I love freighters. I own a Fenrir and 2 Charons in game on three separate characters. One day I hope to have a fleet of various freighters to haul about the assets of empires. I want to move people's and corp's stuff. To me this is the fun of Eve when I am not killing those evil NPCs. I only say this because I want you to know that I don't have anything against the idea of freighters. I like them the way they are! I really truly do. To me it makes sense that they are slow cumbersome beasts of burden. They are the elephants of Eve (or semi-trucks). They are extremely specialized. Freighters are the absolute most specialized ships in Eve. They have one singular purpose. They move things. They move a lot of things. Freighters move empires.


Because of this specialization they do have many weaknesses. These weaknesses are something you simply have to come to appreciate. I love watching a Charon or Providence slowly turn into warp.I love the way an Obelisk looks approaching a gate. I happen to think that the Fenrir has an excellent profile. I love freighters. I even love to think my Fenrir is full to the brim with escaped slaves every time I leave Amarr in it. There is nothing wrong with freighters as they are. Don't touch them. They are fantastic.

But, and there is always a but...

I do think that the industrial ship paradigm is in need of some help. These ships are simply some of the most specialized ships in the game. The T1 industrial ships, T2 transport ships, the freighter and its T2 variant the Jump Freighter are what they are. They can on occasion be used for other purposes (Battle Badger!) but in general they are useless at anything that isn't moving stuff. This is part of the reason I love them. Their purpose is clear but their uses many. That being said I would like to see an expansion of the industrial ship lines for people who feel like our OP.

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=94152

I saw this idea and fell in passionate love with it. Show support! OP, I think you'd like it too!


A mini freighter would definately make a difference and its a good idea. There is a demand for ships that can move stuff in the 200k m3 range.

I still think fitting freighters should be considered though. It should be up to player wether he wants a "speedy" build or a tanky one

o/
Rordan D'Kherr
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#36 - 2012-10-29 11:28:00 UTC
@OP

The smart ways


  • get a friend / alt who webs your freighter = faster warp
  • use industrial / transport ships = fitting available
  • ... design your own workarounds


The not so smart ways


  • demanding game changes which effects other players who already have well adapted
  • complaining about game design

Don't be scared, because being afk is not a crime.
Kimo Khan
Rage Against All Reds
GunFam
#37 - 2012-10-29 13:41:52 UTC
Rordan D'Kherr wrote:
@OP

The smart ways


  • get a friend / alt who webs your freighter = faster warp




^ this is huge, not just faster warp, but almost instant.
Souisa
Subhypersonics
#38 - 2012-10-30 03:44:02 UTC
Rordan D'Kherr wrote:
@OP

The smart ways


  • get a friend / alt who webs your freighter = faster warp
  • use industrial / transport ships = fitting available
  • ... design your own workarounds


The not so smart ways


  • demanding game changes which effects other players who already have well adapted
  • complaining about game design


What makes you think this is a complaint? Do you have any actual arguments against why freighters should not recieve fits, or have anything to add regarding their align time?

And suggesting exploits to circumvent intended game mechanics does not make the intended game mechanics any better.

The freighters need an overhaul, they need fitting slots, players need to be able to decide wether they want a tanky freigher or a 'speedy' one.

o/
Kitt JT
True North.
#39 - 2012-10-30 04:38:34 UTC
This is a terrible thread. You should feel bad.
Souisa
Subhypersonics
#40 - 2012-10-30 04:55:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Souisa
Kitt JT wrote:
This is a terrible thread. You should feel bad.


Why? :)

o/