EVE General Discussion

We're already making the meta 5 stuff, and all the components that go into it. If the named items become plentiful enough, it too turns into T2 components. The NPC stuff isn't better — it's just different (usually easier to fit and use at the cost of being impossible to produce on demand).

…well, again assuming we're not talking about the Meta-11+ stuff.

I don't know about the others, but that certainly isn't what I said.

People having tens of billions in their wallet is just wrong. There is no wayaround that.
Yes, people need to be liquid enough to buy stuff - otherwise the market wouldn't work either. But you shouldn't be allowed to lose a battleship each day and still come out on top. Alliances should not be able to welp complete fleets of Drakes each day and shrugging it off. That this stuff is possible takes all the meaning out of the market, we might as well just push a button and get whatever we want like it is at the moment.

i'm guessing if production was altered so that meta 1-4 items were producible by players, not much would change. reason being, everyone and their mom would start producing higher meta items and end up flooding the market with those as well. by making this type of change, you'd boost the supply thereby affecting the pricing of those modules in a negative way.

take t1 ship hulls for example. although there aren't meta hulls, there are different tiers with some being "better" than others. but this doesn't matter; whether you're trying to build the dominix or hyperion you won't find much difference in the profitability of either since the market is flooded with both.

the only thing that would impact this scenario is if there were some restricted material/resource used in the production of the higher meta gear. This is already the case for T2, T3 and faction gear. however, if ccp were to do this, i'm guessing it wouldn't be anything as rare as tech, nanoribbons or faction bpo's since we're only talking about meta 1-4 items here. most likely, it would be something that week old noobs can access, which would open the flood gates for all levels of producers.

Your response "It is these days"

Sorry, but it is. Natsett's point was that meta0 items should be better, and the essence of your reply was just to say over and over, "but they aren't better", which is nonresponsive, and boils down to exactly as I said above.

Because it's impossible to design the different meta levels with different material requirements? (not necessaily just "more minerals, but also possibly different and more advanced materials. A smooth progression up to meta 5, instead of a giant gap. Where some see a problem, others see an opportunity for increased design complexity.

I keep saying suply and demand aren't the problem and people keep coming back with supply and demand.


Supply and demand governs what sells. But this is a video game. STATS determine what sells best.

The t1 variants with BETTER STATS are going to always sell more than the player made one. There is no reason for player made items to have worse stats than things not made by the players.

I can't make something have better stats to compete. This isn't real world economics, some things get thrown off when code dictates effect.

In the real world you can not pull a car out of thin air that is better than any car made by any man, you can in EVE. THERE IS NO SHORTAGE of these items. Without the possibility of shortages within a supply chain, supply and demand is thrown off.

Prices in EVE are first and formost determined by stats, not supply and demand. Many T1 items are not a part of the supply and demand part of EVE's economy, because we can't simply make a better product.

Supply and demand does not explain why there are meta 4 items that are better than player made items. Supply and demand has NOTHING to do with that. There's no demand for items with bad stats in the T1 market, and it has nothing to do with supply and demand because it's dictated by code.

I think it would do better to double the mineral requirements and make manufacturing more difficult/specialized. Ships and equipment are too cheap. They should be more expensive.

um....

Yes, you are correct, supply and demand has a factor in pricing, because the best items are typically the highse cost ones as well.

It ends there.

Sometimes the best items end up the CHEAPEST, and it's not supply and demand, it's not having a base value on them items, and an over abundance of said item.

Look at 10mn MWD's. The best one SHOULDN'T cost less than the worst one, which happens to be the player made one. Players won't fix that, as an industrialist it's pointless to build a 10mn WMD unless you build the T2 version.

But people pay a shitload of isk for meta 4 items that drop off of NPC's, even when you price the playermade item at just over production cost you're not selling them anywhere near the volume of the one that dropped from an NPC with better stats.

I may not have expressed my problem clearly enough though.
I want what I make to be better than what drops from an NPC when some guy is half assing his way through a lvl 4.


Jita, 10mn MWD
Over 3k experimental 10mn MWD sold at an average cost of 23k
10mn MWD 1's sold, 400some, at an average cost of 266k; that's only a little more than production cost with a researched BPO.

I can't make a better 10mn MWD, and the NPC dropped one would still sell far more if it was priced over 400k; I know this for a fact.

The NPC meta 4 items, with better stats, always drives the industrialist out of competition, and into a position where you're better off moving NPC loot around.

I see no reason for it to be this way.



PS: Guys, I'm building like a hundred different things, T1 and T2 and that number just continues to go up. In fact very soon it's going to go up substantially. There are only so many things that don't have a meta 4 variant, and that actually sells.

I see nothig wrong with people who buld things in the game to want those things they build to actually be desirable for purchase by other players.

I don't do small scale industrial stuff or just part time "passive" income on the market. This is 100% of my playstyle.
I understand that this is probably something a lot of peopel aren't effected by because my playstyle may not actually be that popular.

The effects of these items on the market is very noticable when you're running hundreds of market orders, half of which you're actually building yorself.



Imagine if I could undock and shoot NPC's and they dropped a rifter variant that was better than the ones people made. That's how it is for pretty much every module with a meta 4 variant.

Every NPC loot T1 item with better stats than the player made variant effectively removes a player made item from the game. People should not be ok with this in a game that has a market that is suppoed to be based on player made items. If I just wanted to move loot drops around, I'd play a themepark MMO with an AH; it's exactly how they work.

And the things that sell best are err.. in demand. So we need to errr... keep up supply.

I don't think we have to discover what happens if the STATS determine what sells least. Or do we?