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"Forcing People to Leave the Game" and "Forcing a Specific Playstyle"

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James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#141 - 2012-10-30 19:38:59 UTC
Ritsum wrote:
I would love to see a Pirate threat level ~1-10~ in Null sec. This Threat level indicates how strong and aggressive the NPC pirates are. at Threat level 10 the Pirates will start to siege POS's like a normal alliance would ~Basically like a incursion on a Pos~. At around 4-6 the rats will start to form gate camps on that system, with fast locking webs and scrams making it hard for people of that system to move around.
Based on the threat level the rats would have better tank and firepower.

The way to keep the threat level low would be to have a set group that rats and clears up plex's and such, each rat killed and objective done would help reduce the threat level.

Because of the increased rats, rewards would be much higher based on strength of the rats making for good rewards for ratters.
The increased rats would also provide a lot of low quality mods that can be reprocessed into raw minerals in which would help the industry side of null sec.

Now null-secers can recruit new members that may only know how to rat into the corp and slowly introduce them to PvP.
Now High-secers can have a decent viable reason to go to null sec.

Now null sec will have tons of more players and a lot of people can work together instead of bashing each others playstyle.

I am full of energy drinks atm so leave me alone!

We don't need more PVE content in nullsec. We need more incentives to PVP.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
Dar Manic
Dirt Road Services
#142 - 2012-10-30 20:03:43 UTC  |  Edited by: Dar Manic
We don't need more PVE content in nullsec. We need more incentives to PVP.


Agreed but it seems people think everywhere in Eve should be 'fixed' like that.

You want PVP, go to null sec.
You want PVP, go to low sec.
You want PVP, go to WH.
You don't want PVP, go to hi-sec.

If one remembers this is a game to play and have fun, there isn't a problem. When someone feels like living out their fantasy in eve because they suck in life, they feel the need to make everyone play the way they want.

Adapt or die? Absolutely. Quit Eve if hi sec pisses you off so much. :)

I just don't understand null sec players.

**Please note: **Anytime I use the phrase PvP in a post, I'm talking about shooting/combat/killing things/blowing things up. Thank you.
Thor Kerrigan
Guardians of Asceticism
#143 - 2012-10-31 04:36:22 UTC
Dar Manic wrote:

You don't want PVP, go to hi-sec.


False. You have access to the player-controlled market even in highsec.
Thor Kerrigan
Guardians of Asceticism
#144 - 2012-11-01 13:37:42 UTC
Maxpie wrote:
Whenever I explain Eve to my friends who have played other games, I always tell them "you probably won't like it, this game is not for everybody" and unfortunately, most of the time it is true. That said, I can't play any of their boring, meaningless theme park games.


It took me 3 trials to finally subscribe. Being able to pay with PLEX is what made it attractive down the line. Although my income started paying for them when I moved out of highsec, I doubt the people in high who pay with PLEX like it when proposed changes nerf their income as their "regular playstyle" won't afford the monthly fee.
Ginger Barbarella
#145 - 2012-11-01 13:54:27 UTC
Damsel in Distress wrote:
I am forced to live in highsec because carebears keep screwing the risk/reward to their direction an no nullsec corp wants me and without an alliance, highsec is way more profitable as a newb.

I hate how their forcing there playstyle onto me.

CCP please stop the high sec zealots.


That entire post made my eyes bleed.

"Blow it all on Quafe and strippers." --- Sorlac
Dar Manic
Dirt Road Services
#146 - 2012-11-01 14:52:33 UTC
Thor Kerrigan wrote:
Dar Manic wrote:

You don't want PVP, go to hi-sec.


False. You have access to the player-controlled market even in highsec.


Wat? You just left the earth's orbit with that tid bit.

If shooting and blowing up peeps (and/or having them do it to you) is not your thing then go to Hi-sec... hrm, not sure where the market has anything to do with it.

I see the 'player-controlled' bit which means you are part of the panic'd 'miners are ruining the game and it's communism' crowd. I'm not talking about anything to do with markets... simply talking about shooting ships and blowing up.

I just don't understand null sec players.

**Please note: **Anytime I use the phrase PvP in a post, I'm talking about shooting/combat/killing things/blowing things up. Thank you.
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#147 - 2012-11-01 14:54:22 UTC
The market is most definitely a PvP arena. Not all PvP is shooting at things.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#148 - 2012-11-01 14:54:26 UTC
Dar Manic wrote:
If shooting and blowing up peeps (and/or having them do it to you) is not your thing then go to Hi-sec... hrm, not sure where the market has anything to do with it.

Market is still PVP.

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat
Thor Kerrigan
Guardians of Asceticism
#149 - 2012-11-02 04:49:08 UTC
Dar Manic wrote:
Thor Kerrigan wrote:
Dar Manic wrote:

You don't want PVP, go to hi-sec.


False. You have access to the player-controlled market even in highsec.


Wat? You just left the earth's orbit with that tid bit.

If shooting and blowing up peeps (and/or having them do it to you) is not your thing then go to Hi-sec... hrm, not sure where the market has anything to do with it.

I see the 'player-controlled' bit which means you are part of the panic'd 'miners are ruining the game and it's communism' crowd. I'm not talking about anything to do with markets... simply talking about shooting ships and blowing up.


In a game where every action you take (i.e. partake in market transactions) affects other people, the only way to stop "PVPing" is by not playing the game.

One player trained to excel at seeding the market (mining), the competition trained shooting guns. Who is the winner is a matter of perspective, as the ammo/modules/ships used could have been seeded by the very person you just shot down.

I could reply to your snide comment about me being part of a specific "crowd" you obviously look down upon that you appear to be part of the willingly oblivious crowd slash uneducated... but I won't.
Terminal Insanity
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
#150 - 2012-11-02 10:13:17 UTC
Im headed to the Hello Kitty Online forums to complain that they're forcing me into a carebear playstyle. I cant even PVP there, what the ****? All i want to do is rip some kittie's heads off and they're trying to force me to hop around and act all polite and ****. They're ruining the game for me.

"War declarations are never officially considered griefing and are not a bannable offense, and it has been repeatedly stated by the developers that the possibility for non-consensual PvP is an intended feature." - CCP
NARDAC
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#151 - 2012-11-02 11:43:36 UTC
bottom line:

CCP is a business that exists to make money, and that is based on the number of paid subscriptions.

ANY play style that reduces the number of paid subscriptions is going to get nerfed.

Whine, vent, lament, complain.... try to force players to play the game in a way they do not enjoy, they will quit the game, and CCP will respond.

You may think that those players quitting is a good thing. I am 100% sure that CCP does not feel the same way.
NARDAC
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#152 - 2012-11-02 11:57:22 UTC  |  Edited by: NARDAC
James Amril-Kesh wrote:

We don't need more PVE content in nullsec. We need more incentives to PVP.


The vast majority of people in high sec fit into two categories:
1) those with no interest in PVP and will not PVP regardless of the incentives offered.
2) Poeple that already PVP, but are in high sec grinding some ISK to buy new ships to lose in PVP.



I read your post on "fixing local". My response is, why do you want to force more people out of low/null and into high sec?

Risk/reward: anything that makes it easier for you to kill someone will result in fewer people doing it.

Anytime you have an idea that starts with "It will make it easier for me to kill them while they....", realize that what you are saying is "I want to stop people from doing...".
TheGunslinger42
All Web Investigations
#153 - 2012-11-02 11:58:28 UTC
NARDAC wrote:
bottom line:

CCP is a business that exists to make money, and that is based on the number of paid subscriptions.

ANY play style that reduces the number of paid subscriptions is going to get nerfed.

Whine, vent, lament, complain.... try to force players to play the game in a way they do not enjoy, they will quit the game, and CCP will respond.

You may think that those players quitting is a good thing. I am 100% sure that CCP does not feel the same way.


The tired old "CCPs goal is to make money so they'll ... " argument people trot out from time to time is idiotic.

Yes, CCP are a business and their goal is to make money.

But if you think that means they're going to remove or undermine core mechanics, or ditch the ruthless sandbox ethos that made EVE a success, and has allowed it to thrive for nine years, then you're stupid beyond help.

The filthy crybaby miner bears can stomp their feet and threaten to unsubscribe if CCP don't remove all hostile actions against them, but they were never the audience EVE was made for to begin with.
Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#154 - 2012-11-02 12:02:39 UTC
TheGunslinger42 wrote:
The tired old "CCPs goal is to make money so they'll ... " argument people trot out from time to time is idiotic.

Yes, CCP are a business and their goal is to make money.

But if you think that means they're going to remove or undermine core mechanics, or ditch the ruthless sandbox ethos that made EVE a success, and has allowed it to thrive for nine years, then you're stupid beyond help.

The filthy crybaby miner bears can stomp their feet and threaten to unsubscribe if CCP don't remove all hostile actions against them, but they were never the audience EVE was made for to begin with.

In an ideal world, your response would be correct and valid, but CCP's actions as of late has me a bit worried they might not actually be compromising on that stance.

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat
NARDAC
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#155 - 2012-11-02 12:04:59 UTC  |  Edited by: NARDAC
TheGunslinger42 wrote:


The tired old "CCPs goal is to make money so they'll ... " argument people trot out from time to time is idiotic.

Yes, CCP are a business and their goal is to make money.

But if you think that means they're going to remove or undermine core mechanics, or ditch the ruthless sandbox ethos that made EVE a success, and has allowed it to thrive for nine years, then you're stupid beyond help.

The filthy crybaby miner bears can stomp their feet and threaten to unsubscribe if CCP don't remove all hostile actions against them, but they were never the audience EVE was made for to begin with.


CCP created a game that they hope will appeal to both PVPers and carebears.

I'm not arguing that CCP is going to get rid of low/null or all PVP. All I'm saying is that CCP wants both PVPers and carebears, and will ensure that there is an area of the game for each of these groups of people. I'm arguing that high-sec will remain high-sec, and will remain relatively safe for carebears.

Any war on carebears that results in the carebears quitting the game, and lowering paid subscriptions will result in nerfs.


Just like anything that began making PVPers quit would result in game changes.


CCP wants both, and that is okay.
Talon SilverHawk
Patria o Muerte
#156 - 2012-11-02 12:07:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Talon SilverHawk
Thor Kerrigan wrote:
Dar Manic wrote:

You don't want PVP, go to hi-sec.


False. You have access to the player-controlled market even in highsec.



This is a moot point of the pedantic. When hi sec ppl complain about pvp they are talking about combat , pew pew, not playing the markets (which can also be called pvp), but no one is complaining about that aspect. Bring it up is just muddying the waters.

Tal
Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#157 - 2012-11-02 12:09:56 UTC
Talon SilverHawk wrote:
This is a mute point of the pedantic.

Moot point. It's definitely not mute.

Talon SilverHawk wrote:
When hi sec ppl complain about pvp they are talking about combat , pew pew, not playing the markets (which can also be called pvp)

Then they should be more specific.

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat
Jenn aSide
Worthless Carebears
The Initiative.
#158 - 2012-11-02 12:28:49 UTC
NARDAC wrote:
TheGunslinger42 wrote:


The tired old "CCPs goal is to make money so they'll ... " argument people trot out from time to time is idiotic.

Yes, CCP are a business and their goal is to make money.

But if you think that means they're going to remove or undermine core mechanics, or ditch the ruthless sandbox ethos that made EVE a success, and has allowed it to thrive for nine years, then you're stupid beyond help.

The filthy crybaby miner bears can stomp their feet and threaten to unsubscribe if CCP don't remove all hostile actions against them, but they were never the audience EVE was made for to begin with.


CCP created a game that they hope will appeal to both PVPers and carebears.

I'm not arguing that CCP is going to get rid of low/null or all PVP. All I'm saying is that CCP wants both PVPers and carebears, and will ensure that there is an area of the game for each of these groups of people. I'm arguing that high-sec will remain high-sec, and will remain relatively safe for carebears.

Any war on carebears that results in the carebears quitting the game, and lowering paid subscriptions will result in nerfs.


Just like anything that began making PVPers quit would result in game changes.


CCP wants both, and that is okay.

'
I know you like to see it that way, but you're wrong. CCP created a total conflict game, with "pew-pew" PVP at it's heart. if they made the game "for carebears", you wouldn't even be able to ACTIVATE a weapon in high sec, aka there would be zero non-consensual pvp there. "High-Sec" punishes "instant" non-consensual, but CCP still provides a mechanism (wardecs) to even get around that.

High Sec is nothing more than a "necessary evil" because hardcore players alone can't sustain the EVE "ecosystem" and even true hardcore players need a stable zone for trading and other activities. But High Sec is not a FOCUS of EVE online, EVE is a game about the players, about what the players build, what the players destroy.

High Sec = necessary evil

Low Sec = pvp/conflcit "starter zone" (notice FW is there) with some player controlled elements (FW again, which CCP stated was a "stepping Stone to null")

Null Sec = The place where the players rule, aka the place where EVE ONLINE Takes place. The place where damn near EVERY CCP advertisement is focuses on, the place where battles occur that make the real life NEWS. The beating heart of the EVE Online virtual economy. The PVP play land of a game CENTERED on PVP. The place CCP has been encouraging (to little avail) high sec carebears to go to for almost 10 years ect ect ect.

Wormholes = New and improved Null Sec

It's almost funny to me how high sec people's preferences shade their perceptions, where all of a sudden "High Sec" is some how the equal of the real player driven parts of the game rather than a starting point and stable trade zone. There is no "equality" between the various "sectors" or whatever you call them.

But as usual, human being prefer to see what they want to, rather than what is actually there.
Esan Vartesa
Samarkand Financial
#159 - 2012-11-02 12:38:41 UTC
Inquisitor Kitchner wrote:


As someone who sits right outside the Finance Director of my company's office and right next to the Finance team (they are all accountants btw) they couldn't care less if...



Hey Kirchner! The printer is on the fritz again. Chop chop!
Talon SilverHawk
Patria o Muerte
#160 - 2012-11-02 12:41:16 UTC
Lord Zim wrote:
Talon SilverHawk wrote:
This is a mute point of the pedantic.

Moot point. It's definitely not mute.

Talon SilverHawk wrote:
When hi sec ppl complain about pvp they are talking about combat , pew pew, not playing the markets (which can also be called pvp)

Then they should be more specific.


Thanks I think the mute was wishful thinking : )

Tal