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"Forcing People to Leave the Game" and "Forcing a Specific Playstyle"

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Dar Manic
Dirt Road Services
#221 - 2012-11-09 17:30:29 UTC
Karrl Tian wrote:
TheGunslinger42 wrote:
Sheep waltzes into the lair of a wolf pack
cries that it's full of wolves
stays there anyway

welcome to eve online


Continuing the fable....

Pack of wolves goes looking for sheep, find out they've covered themselves in camo, hide in the trees, communicate with closed channel radios and only fight when they outnumber wolves 5:1 with AK-47s. Wolves cry it's unfair and say they just want "gud fites" with the sheep. P

They try multiple times and fail and their whines fall on deaf ears. So they stop looking for sheep in the forest and go slaughter veal cows (cows locked into stables so their legs turn to jelly and they do nothing but eat all day) and when the cows complain, the wolves point to the sheep and say HTFU.

The sheep tell the cows how to protect themselves. They ignore them and keep whining and dying. Even the wolves tell them how to protect themselves, but they still keep whining and dying.

Fearing a loss in profit, the farmer makes the stables sturdier, gets better guard dogs and makes the cows fatter. The wolves still figure out how to kill the veal cows "profitably", so the farmer tells every redneck in town that they can hunt wolves on his property to their heart's content.

Welcome to present-day eve online.


hahahah...good one. The wolf is too noble an animal to be the PvP'ers of Eve though. Vulture or hyena are better descriptors. But the message is a good one none the less.

I just don't understand null sec players.

**Please note: **Anytime I use the phrase PvP in a post, I'm talking about shooting/combat/killing things/blowing things up. Thank you.
Skydell
Bad Girl Posse
#222 - 2012-11-09 17:30:46 UTC
It isn't really forced, more about bait and switch. EVE is like the credit card or internet bundle that starts revealing fee's after you sign the contract.
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
#223 - 2012-11-09 17:54:23 UTC
We forget that a lot of people who play this game see forcing others to leave this game as "their game", and so that's their goal in the game and seek out any mechanics to that end.


Bring back DEEEEP Space!
Mag's
Azn Empire
#224 - 2012-11-11 15:34:19 UTC
Dar Manic wrote:
Mag's wrote:
We wouldn't expect you to start beating yourself, even when you are wrong.

PvP = Player verse Player.
This includes, but not limited to: Mining. Trading. Ship spinning. Hauling. Combat. etc. etc. I could go on with the list, but you still wouldn't understand the concept.


Of course I wouldn't ;)... then I read posts where people use both of the meanings in an attempt to prove Eve is really just a PvP game (read sig). That's the real problem I have. Too many posters are trying to argue Eve is a PvP (read sig) only game where everything else is just fluff. There are tons of players who don't PvP (read sig) and don't want to... it would be news to them that Eve is a PvP (read sig) game.

So I ask the question of you as I have asked of the others: If a new player comes onto the forums asking to learn PvP, what skills do you suggest to them? That's what I thought. Thanks for playing.
Your limitations on what the term PvP means is merely that, your limitation. It doesn't change the fact that PvP means Player verses Player. In the context of Eve's game play, it means Eve is PvP centric.

As far as your question goes, it would depend on the circumstance in which the question was asked. Blink

Thanks for playing.

Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.
MatrixSkye Mk2
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#225 - 2012-11-11 15:44:50 UTC  |  Edited by: MatrixSkye Mk2
Karrl Tian wrote:
TheGunslinger42 wrote:
Sheep waltzes into the lair of a wolf pack
cries that it's full of wolves
stays there anyway

welcome to eve online


Continuing the fable....

Pack of wolves goes looking for sheep, find out they've covered themselves in camo, hide in the trees, communicate with closed channel radios and only fight when they outnumber wolves 5:1 with AK-47s. Wolves cry it's unfair and say they just want "gud fites" with the sheep. P

They try multiple times and fail and their whines fall on deaf ears. So they stop looking for sheep in the forest and go slaughter veal cows (cows locked into stables so their legs turn to jelly and they do nothing but eat all day) and when the cows complain, the wolves point to the sheep and say HTFU.

The sheep tell the cows how to protect themselves. They ignore them and keep whining and dying. Even the wolves tell them how to protect themselves, but they still keep whining and dying.

Fearing a loss in profit, the farmer makes the stables sturdier, gets better guard dogs and makes the cows fatter. The wolves still figure out how to kill the veal cows "profitably", so the farmer tells every redneck in town that they can hunt wolves on his property to their heart's content.

Welcome to present-day eve online.

This one made me chuckle. Thanks :)

Successfully doinitwrong™ since 2006.
Dar Manic
Dirt Road Services
#226 - 2012-11-12 14:15:52 UTC
Mag's wrote:
Dar Manic wrote:
Mag's wrote:
We wouldn't expect you to start beating yourself, even when you are wrong.

PvP = Player verse Player.
This includes, but not limited to: Mining. Trading. Ship spinning. Hauling. Combat. etc. etc. I could go on with the list, but you still wouldn't understand the concept.


Of course I wouldn't ;)... then I read posts where people use both of the meanings in an attempt to prove Eve is really just a PvP game (read sig). That's the real problem I have. Too many posters are trying to argue Eve is a PvP (read sig) only game where everything else is just fluff. There are tons of players who don't PvP (read sig) and don't want to... it would be news to them that Eve is a PvP (read sig) game.

So I ask the question of you as I have asked of the others: If a new player comes onto the forums asking to learn PvP, what skills do you suggest to them? That's what I thought. Thanks for playing.
Your limitations on what the term PvP means is merely that, your limitation. It doesn't change the fact that PvP means Player verses Player. In the context of Eve's game play, it means Eve is PvP centric.

As far as your question goes, it would depend on the circumstance in which the question was asked. Blink

Thanks for playing.


And you answered it exactly the way I anticipated to prove my point. It means one thing when you want it to then something else entirely when it fits that need. Thanks for playing!!!

Eve is PVP centric... I could agree with that... except later on same people say Eve is all/only about pew pew PVP (read sig). Two totally different meanings used in the same argument to try to prove that Eve is PVP (read sig). Eve is not just about PVP (read sig). You cannot argue Eve is a PVP centric game (Player vs. Player) then turn around and say it's just about PVP (read sig).

Player vs Player centric is NOT the same as Player shooting vs Player shooting centric. They are NOT the same thing. PVP (read sig) is just a portion of Eve, not the end all/be all/only thing.

I just don't understand null sec players.

**Please note: **Anytime I use the phrase PvP in a post, I'm talking about shooting/combat/killing things/blowing things up. Thank you.
Saede Riordan
Alexylva Paradox
#227 - 2012-11-12 14:22:02 UTC
Azumi Zimu wrote:
baltec1 wrote:

Yet the high sec bears continue to try to get rid of playstyles they dont like.


You guys waged a campaign against high-sec miners. You used early 20th century Anti-Semitic propaganda. You said you hated what they stood for.

Not that I log in...

Keep up the hypocrisy space-nerds Cool


Yes, and they did stuff, IN SPACE, mechanically, to do it. They played within the rules and created emergent gameplay. Awesome. If the miners/carebears had united in a similar in game mechanical way and rose up to fight the griefers, it would have been awesome.

But you don't do that. Instead, you whine on the forums and try to get CCP to limit gameplay for others, since it hurts you.

You want to stop people? Go stop them. Stop trying to hide behind CCP.

Fear and Loathing in Internet Spaceships
Elliot Vodka
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#228 - 2012-11-12 15:04:47 UTC
Saede Riordan wrote:
Azumi Zimu wrote:
baltec1 wrote:

Yet the high sec bears continue to try to get rid of playstyles they dont like.


You guys waged a campaign against high-sec miners. You used early 20th century Anti-Semitic propaganda. You said you hated what they stood for.

Not that I log in...

Keep up the hypocrisy space-nerds Cool


Yes, and they did stuff, IN SPACE, mechanically, to do it. They played within the rules and created emergent gameplay. Awesome. If the miners/carebears had united in a similar in game mechanical way and rose up to fight the griefers, it would have been awesome.

But you don't do that. Instead, you whine on the forums and try to get CCP to limit gameplay for others, since it hurts you.

You want to stop people? Go stop them. Stop trying to hide behind CCP.



What honestly makes you think carebears give a tit about each other?

Do you give a **** about anyone that isnt a threat to you? Thats why it will never work. And that is why all attempts have failed.
Your mindless pipe dream of having a crap ton of mindless zombie ships band together against null sec is never going to happen. Stop dreaming.

Why is it that people think this game is for everyone?A better question would be "Why do some people think this game is only for them?"
Jenn aSide
Worthless Carebears
The Initiative.
#229 - 2012-11-12 15:15:24 UTC
Elliot Vodka wrote:


What honestly makes you think carebears give a tit about each other?


They don't and that's their problem, the reason why they are so incredibly vulnerable and easy to abuse. It's the reason why the CSM is and (with any rational voting mechanic) always will be dominated by null/low sec players who actually play the game in ways the game supports ie cooperatively with other people.

Quote:

Do you give a **** about anyone that isnt a threat to you? Thats why it will never work. And that is why all attempts have failed.
Your mindless pipe dream of having a crap ton of mindless zombie ships band together against null sec is never going to happen. Stop dreaming.


If the "high sec people" can't be bother enough to band together in a game that has VERY easy built-in methods of communicating (everything from chat to built in EVE voice and EVE mail), and consequences they face as "solo" players is simply their fault, which is all I've ever said to them.

A mere fraction of these high sec lone wolves banding together would wipe Goons and the CFC (who I am using as examples) off the map in less than a week, but that takes *gasp* talking to other people in an MMO and risking the loss of pixels... oh noes...
Some Rando
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#230 - 2012-11-12 15:21:37 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
A mere fraction of these high sec lone wolves banding together would wipe Goons and the CFC (who I am using as examples) off the map in less than a week, but that takes *gasp* talking to other people in an MMO and risking the loss of pixels... oh noes...

If taking sov is anything like what I've heard, these "high-sec wolves" you speak of would be bored in an hour or so.

Fake E: I take that back, miners might be eminently suitable for the task of structure grinds, if they could be troubled to step into a combat ship...

CCP has no sense of humour.
Jenn aSide
Worthless Carebears
The Initiative.
#231 - 2012-11-12 15:34:50 UTC
Some Rando wrote:

If taking sov is anything like what I've heard, these "high-sec wolves" you speak of would be bored in an hour or so.

Well, risking boredom to fight back against people screwing with your game? Can't have that, now can we, better they run to the forums and get CCP to change EVE in their favor, which is much more reasonable.

/sarcasm

Quote:
Fake E: I take that back, miners might be eminently suitable for the task of structure grinds, if they could be troubled to step into a combat ship...


LOL yea, you'd think that.

The important thing, though, is the fact that rocks never ever shoot back at them. If they did there would be very few miners period lol.
Asuri Kinnes
Perkone
Caldari State
#232 - 2012-11-12 15:46:03 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
A mere fraction of these high sec lone wolves banding together would wipe Goons and the CFC (who I am using as examples) off the map in less than a week

That is so BS as to not even be funny. I doubt (with all the structure grinds) you could do much more than "get their attention" in a weeks time...

Roll

Bob is the god of Wormholes.

That's all you need to know.
Elliot Vodka
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#233 - 2012-11-12 15:48:29 UTC
Yes i entirely agree, remove high sec make everything null sec and lets marval in the hell as the carebares are forced to play like its ment to be.

How many bias trolls does it take to get to the center of a thread!!? Lets find out.

Why is it that people think this game is for everyone?A better question would be "Why do some people think this game is only for them?"
Angeal MacNova
Holefood Inc.
Warriors of the Blood God
#234 - 2012-11-12 16:40:36 UTC
PvP, regardless of how you want to spin it, has always referred to direct player vs player. Team Fortress is pvp, Day of Defeat is pvp, Mortal Combat (when playing against another person) is pvp, and when one or more players fights one or more players in this game, that is pvp.

Yes, let's see CCP remove high sec and watch the mass exodus with the closure of the servers to shortly follow.

Although I would honestly love to see CCP separate high from low and null. Such that people can travel back and forth but only in a shuttle (with an empty cargo hold) or pod and they have a separate wallet for which money can not be sent between the two wallet types. Just for a couple months, to see how well low/null survives. I bet that it wouldn't be long before the low/null people are begging to open it up again.

http://www.projectvaulderie.com/goodnight-sweet-prince/

http://www.projectvaulderie.com/the-untold-story/

CCP's true, butthurt, colors.

Because those who can't do themselves keep others from doing too.
Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#235 - 2012-11-12 16:42:15 UTC
Angeal MacNova wrote:
Although I would honestly love to see CCP separate high from low and null. Such that people can travel back and forth but only in a shuttle (with an empty cargo hold) or pod and they have a separate wallet for which money can not be sent between the two wallet types. Just for a couple months, to see how well low/null survives. I bet that it wouldn't be long before the low/null people are begging to open it up again.

EVE Online: Trammel

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat
Jenn aSide
Worthless Carebears
The Initiative.
#236 - 2012-11-12 17:03:39 UTC
Asuri Kinnes wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:
A mere fraction of these high sec lone wolves banding together would wipe Goons and the CFC (who I am using as examples) off the map in less than a week

That is so BS as to not even be funny. I doubt (with all the structure grinds) you could do much more than "get their attention" in a weeks time...

Roll


50-60,000 high sec ravens and drakes would maker short work of the north, the lag alone would kill goons lol
Khergit Deserters
Crom's Angels
#237 - 2012-11-12 17:06:36 UTC
Max Doobie wrote:
Howz about everyone just....STFU and let others do what they want?

How about that?

How about we all just mind our goddamned business and play the game?

DOOBAY!!!

+1 Thus, the bumping/anti-bumping debate over in another GD thread. I'm on the anti-bumping side, and I don't even mine. It's just a matter of leave people alone and let them play how they want. Or go ahead and bump them, and call it PVP or extortion. But don't say it's because you don't approve of how the victim plays the game, or write non sequitur manifestos about it. How anybody plays the game is none for your dat-burn business.
Oraac Ensor
#238 - 2012-11-12 17:08:08 UTC  |  Edited by: Oraac Ensor
Thor Kerrigan wrote:
Why is it that people think this game is for everyone?

A better question would be "Why do some people think this game is only for them?"
Dar Manic
Dirt Road Services
#239 - 2012-11-12 17:23:12 UTC
Oraac Ensor wrote:
Thor Kerrigan wrote:
Why is it that people think this game is for everyone?

A better question would be "Why do some people think this game is only for them?"


There's the winner!!!

I just don't understand null sec players.

**Please note: **Anytime I use the phrase PvP in a post, I'm talking about shooting/combat/killing things/blowing things up. Thank you.
KrakizBad
Section 8.
#240 - 2012-11-12 17:38:54 UTC
Dar Manic wrote:
Oraac Ensor wrote:
Thor Kerrigan wrote:
Why is it that people think this game is for everyone?

A better question would be "Why do some people think this game is only for them?"


There's the winner!!!

Indeed, why do carebears think the world is only there for their wallet amount to tick up? A reasonable question at last by Dar Misses Every Point.