EVE General Discussion

The other day I posted "My Tamagotchi DIED!". It was locked, it was scoffed at. It was ridiculed. It was meant to be. But ask why I posted on it? [insert jocular retort here]

A while ago I posted about making production possible only if you were there. It was scoffed at. It was ridiculed. But did anyone stop and ask why I posted it? [insert jocular retort here]


For those that have continued past obvious......

Let's talk about TIME.

Spreadsheet jockeys (some call them a-retentives) calculate time to acquire resources in their production runs. They jiggle and wriggle the numbers, set up the production chain and take it to market.

They set up the sell order and - wait - some &%$@ so-and-so has undercut prices! You go back to your spreadsheet, jiggle and wriggle some more, trying to squeeze out every last drop of isk.

And you STILL can't compete.

Obviously, the first thought is the game is broken, CCP fix this, balance that, reward/risk ratio is out, highsec needs to be nerfed, 0.0 needs to pull their heads in and away we go. Argument, angst, forum PvP, you name it.

But wait....

See that little column called TIME in your spreadsheet? Delete it. I bet you my talking donkey to your dancing rooster that you now have a sell price that competes? It does doesn't it?

Simply put, many, many players in Eve do not charge for time because there is no VR cost to being online. They can even produce while they sleep. It costs them nothing in time even when online to do the things they do, like mining, missioning.

We can talk about efficiences, supply/demand, we can do CBA's and apply any RL economic theory we want - all incidentally discovered and perpetuated by people that charge by the hour who must - get this - eat, drink, sleep, have staff, offices and overheads. TIME in the economically theorised land of RL is real and costs.

In Eve, TIME has zero cost to the individual. (Yes, it has a percieved cost but no actual cost - and you can theorize all you like on this - some people simply will NOT calculate time - they don't have to!)

So the 2 things I was leading to in those poo-poo threads are thus.

Thread 1: Make online chars COST to be online. It might be food, drink, whatever. While you're online there must be a direct and attributable cost - even if you do NOTHING. Perhaps CCP may have thought this at some point, they gave us milk, livestock and Quafe. (aka. Tamagotchi thread)

Thread 2: Make production occur ONLY when you are there. We do not and cannot produce in RL unless we are there so how come we can in Eve? If we intend to RL theorize, maybe we need to apply the obvious RL restriction to production - i.e. your presence (i.e. ATK production thread)

Examples of possible (I emphasize POSSIBLE) ideas

i) Fees payable to be IN a system - escalating as security get's higher? (Concord protection tax?)
ii) Food, drink etc.
iii) Fuel for ships.
iV) ATK production. Not there, nothing happens.

I bet there are lots more. I'd also add that a large portion of issues for people in EVe, from ALL areas, from ALL professions, would be somewhat "fixed" if our mere presence could be costed in real terms.

TL:DR & Q: >> If we put a REAL cost on TIME would half the "problems" in Eve be as good as fixed?

Bu that's the problem. People are and then attribute it to the game being broken or a nerf neccessary.

Countless threads regarding a neccessity to increase cost to production and nerfing minerals when in fact the problem is that you can mine all day for zero cost (T2 crystals aside).

People are not attributing time to acquisition while those complaining about costs/prices do.

The spreadsheets they use is an RL application using RL theory.

I had a tamagotchi

Yes. It is. So why do people insist on doing it?

The great debate raging is that nerfing highsec will make 0.0 industry better. The argument is that highsec items cost less than the minerals used. Which they do.

And apparently, fixing 0.0 indy by crippling highsec industry will fix this. Of course not. Because the person importing will STILL not calculate time. Even if you add a highsec cost to indy, you could cripple it for all the difference it will make, he'll just move to 0.0 and do exactly the same thing.

He will win the market war - every single time - because he has removed (incorrectly or otherwise) a cost that IS added by his competition.

(anyone ever noticed that low wage costs - i.e. cost of time - are the primary reason why many companies produce overseas? - think about it...)

Confirming mins YOU mine are free. I, on the other hand, will buy up that underpriced junk you throw up on the market, reprocess it, and make a profit all day long for a few seconds work:D

PLEASE mine more free mins for me, please?

I'd like to give a shout out to Fuzzworks, whose site lets me figure out in seconds what's worth reprocessing without spending time with spreadsheets.

I'll continue to mine whatever the best isk/m3 ore is, and use the cash to buy up the cheaper ores, when I feel like mining.

This man gets it.

I think the reason most people that play this game do not count their time as being a cost is simple really.

It is because everything they do in this game is play.
I don't know about you, but I do not consider my cost per hour when I play chess, or when I play axis and allies, or Euchre, or PS3. Or when I go to the park and play. My play time is invaluable. Not that is has no value, but invaluable in the sense that you cannot assign a value to it.

Now my work time has a real value....whatever the market will bear. This is a different thing.


Eve is a game, and as such, I cannot put a price on the time I spend in the game.


I think that is one reason why I do not count the value of my time. If I valued it at the same rate I do my regular job, I would never play this game.

No good at all. If you place a monetary value on time in game then CCP owes a person a refund for any unused time at the end of 30 days. Any hours of that 90 left over needs to be refunded to the player.

Subs pay for the operation of CCP not for the operation of the player in EVE.

This is very wrong for EVE.

And that is why this thread in invalid from the start. It is simply trying to win an argument started in another thread .
It has no valid game related mechanic to stand on its own. Good day.

Are there ostriches in Eve or is that only an RL thing?

Nonetheless, Good day to you too Sir.