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Warfare & Tactics

 
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Faction Warfare - Same As It Ever Was

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Cearain
Plus 10 NV
#121 - 2012-10-31 17:45:52 UTC
Yuri Intaki wrote:
Cearain wrote:
But the question is not where a few diehards are going to go. The question is what are most people doing.


Few dedicated diehards are not going to affect things when there are up to 60 moneymakers opposing for each of them. Mathematics are a b.tch so I assume most people will roll up alts for opposing militia missioning and move their stuff to non-lockable lowsec.

Nobody will fight in FW but then again, nobody has actually fought over anything in FW since Inferno anyway. This of course wont hinder Gallente and Minmatar militias in the least since it's going to be isk making paradise until end of Eve.

I quess congratulations are in order for CCP and Hans for finally stacking the deck big enough to be too much for Amarr/Caldari to handle and achieving their dream of killing FW.



That is clearly the conclusion all rational amarr should have reached. But I wasn't sure about the caldari front.

Anyway if people want to keep thinking others will choose less money for the same task, I guess it's silly of me to think I can convince them otherwise.

As for me I am not going to do any more occupancy war on behalf of amarr. If minmatar wants to get lp from this slanted occupancy system they will need to roll their own alts. I won't do the work of their alts for them. The more we keep plexing the more money we keep giving them. I refuse to aid the enemy that way.

I will also encourage other amarr not to give the minmatar the big paydays these rules aim to provide them.

Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
Yuri Intaki
Nasranite Watch
#122 - 2012-10-31 17:53:45 UTC
Cearain wrote:
That is clearly the conclusion all rational amarr should have reached. But I wasn't sure about the caldari front.


Dont get me wrong (this is just my personal opinion), I do like pvp but right now I am looking for not-too-distant future where I need to keep accounts running all my free time in a single system just for the priviledge of being able to dock and i've had enough of CCP's continued screw ups in regards to FW.
Karl Planck
Perkone
Caldari State
#123 - 2012-10-31 18:00:11 UTC
i love this fw squabbling. The new changes have been nothing but positive in my view. As to the state of the amarr some new small groups seem to be doing fine. In general, X Gal was correct when he stated that isk is a very small portion of concern. Its mostly on moral and amarr has been terrible and keeping it high as a militia.

I has all the eve inactivity
Crosi Wesdo
War and Order
#124 - 2012-10-31 18:02:59 UTC  |  Edited by: Crosi Wesdo
Yuri Intaki wrote:
Cearain wrote:
That is clearly the conclusion all rational amarr should have reached. But I wasn't sure about the caldari front.


Dont get me wrong (this is just my personal opinion), I do like pvp but right now I am looking for not-too-distant future where I need to keep accounts running all my free time in a single system just for the priviledge of being able to dock and i've had enough of CCP's continued screw ups in regards to FW.



Like i told praz, thats the problem with wanting to dock in a specific system, by yourself, in some quiet backwater.

Also, you said that gallente and minmatar were where to go to make isk, iirc it was only last month when you were calling gallente skint capsuleers and boasting about the mightly caldari hitting tier 5 on multiple occasions. Gallente got one tier 5 and due to a stroke of fortune we have done to you exactly what you intended to do to us.

If you had managed to do that on the upcoming patch day and there was no emergency patch to fix the economy and plex prices them im sure you would be gloating here as you were in the past and explaining to us that we just need to work harder.

In the end, your foiled master plan was on the backs of a horde of plexing alts, the same ones that you criticize. Im sorry that you invested so much in something that didnt pan out to be as easy and as foregone as you saw it to be.

While you sit here crying, Happy Endings are out there working their asses off trying to capture systems. Rather than sitting in some back water system that no one cares about trying to defend it single handed and complaining about how hard it can be to do so on this thread lol.
Dread Operative
Lowlife.
Snuffed Out
#125 - 2012-10-31 18:21:11 UTC
Crosi Wesdo wrote:

While you sit here crying, Happy Endings are out there working their asses off trying to capture systems. Rather than sitting in some back water system that no one cares about trying to defend it single handed and complaining about how hard it can be to do so on this thread lol.


^^^THIS
Poetic Stanziel
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#126 - 2012-10-31 19:27:44 UTC
X Gallentius wrote:
1. That half pay is still enough to keep you fighting and in the game.
Barely. In really cheap ships and fits. And then only if you put a fair bit of time into solo PvE. So, "Yay FW for all the awesome PvE opportunities!"
X Gallentius
Black Eagle1
#127 - 2012-10-31 19:31:29 UTC
Crosi Wesdo wrote:
If you had managed to do that on the upcoming patch day and there was no emergency patch to fix the economy and plex prices them im sure you would be gloating here as you were in the past and explaining to us that we just need to work harder.
I think the difference here is that if the shoe were on the other foot, Gallente would fight to hold the core systems, live off the Tier 1 payouts while trying to push to Tier 2, and continue the fight. Yeah things would suck, and yeah we'd have no chance at winning, and yeah we'd whine about it on the forums, but we'd stick it out and not bail.

The Caldari may or may not have enough core players to keep some of their systems. Many of them may or may not bail. We'll see in a month or so.
X Gallentius
Black Eagle1
#128 - 2012-10-31 19:33:28 UTC
Poetic Stanziel wrote:
X Gallentius wrote:
1. That half pay is still enough to keep you fighting and in the game.
Barely. In really cheap ships and fits. And then only if you put a fair bit of time into solo PvE. So, "Yay FW for all the awesome PvE opportunities!"
Give me a break. You and all your friends and allies are fail if you can't support yourself at FW Tier 1 payouts. HTFU and go pirate if you think you have it so bad. Somehow those guys are able to make a living.
Dread Operative
Lowlife.
Snuffed Out
#129 - 2012-10-31 19:38:39 UTC
X Gallentius wrote:
Poetic Stanziel wrote:
X Gallentius wrote:
1. That half pay is still enough to keep you fighting and in the game.
Barely. In really cheap ships and fits. And then only if you put a fair bit of time into solo PvE. So, "Yay FW for all the awesome PvE opportunities!"
Give me a break. You and all your friends and allies are fail if you can't support yourself at FW Tier 1 payouts. HTFU and go pirate if you think you have it so bad. Somehow those guys are able to make a living.



BS can't make a living. If you do 2 minor plex, which you can do in any PVP frig or dessie, every day for a month that's 300k LP at t1. That's enough for 2 Navy Geddons netting you 800m+. You can literally do 2 minors while looking for fights. So I call your BS and raise you logic.
Poetic Stanziel
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#130 - 2012-10-31 20:20:26 UTC
Dread Operative wrote:
X Gallentius wrote:
Poetic Stanziel wrote:
X Gallentius wrote:
1. That half pay is still enough to keep you fighting and in the game.
Barely. In really cheap ships and fits. And then only if you put a fair bit of time into solo PvE. So, "Yay FW for all the awesome PvE opportunities!"
Give me a break. You and all your friends and allies are fail if you can't support yourself at FW Tier 1 payouts. HTFU and go pirate if you think you have it so bad. Somehow those guys are able to make a living.
BS can't make a living. If you do 2 minor plex, which you can do in any PVP frig or dessie, every day for a month that's 300k LP at t1. That's enough for 2 Navy Geddons netting you 800m+. You can literally do 2 minors while looking for fights. So I call your BS and raise you logic.
Let's do the math on that, shall we?

Two Navy Geddons sell for 360M ISK each. But to get those Navy Geddons you have to buy one Geddon and one TIL-1 chip, which cost 90M ISK total. So, you make 270M ISK per Navy Geddon. For a total of 540M ISK for the month.

According to you, I have to acquire 300K LP. Which is 60 minor plexes at T1 warzone control. Each minor plex now takes 20 minutes to complete (it can take longer, but we'll just stick with 20 minutes to be generous), since you now have to kill five (or is it four) waves of rats, scattered all around the plex. So that's 20 hours of solo plexing for 540M ISK. Which will barely cover the monthly ship losses for some FW pilots (I lose 750M ISK in ships on average per month, and that's about the norm for an active FW pilot.)

So, every day (that's if I log in every day) I have to spend 40 minutes of my time doing some bullshit solo PvE. That could be 1/3rd of the average FWers evening play time engaged in non-PvP activities.

Woot!
Deen Wispa
Sheriff.
Caldari Tactical Operations Command
#131 - 2012-10-31 20:30:32 UTC
Dread Operative wrote:
X Gallentius wrote:
Poetic Stanziel wrote:
X Gallentius wrote:
1. That half pay is still enough to keep you fighting and in the game.
Barely. In really cheap ships and fits. And then only if you put a fair bit of time into solo PvE. So, "Yay FW for all the awesome PvE opportunities!"
Give me a break. You and all your friends and allies are fail if you can't support yourself at FW Tier 1 payouts. HTFU and go pirate if you think you have it so bad. Somehow those guys are able to make a living.



BS can't make a living. If you do 2 minor plex, which you can do in any PVP frig or dessie, every day for a month that's 300k LP at t1. That's enough for 2 Navy Geddons netting you 800m+. You can literally do 2 minors while looking for fights. So I call your BS and raise you logic.


Argument is moot since all factions can achieve T2 and sustain it quite easily, thus doubling that income.

I remember a week ago when XG told me he hoped that Gallente could just hit T2 and call it a day. I knew T3 was achievable for us and wanted us to aim higher. And now look where we are today; we're at T4. Woot !

High Five. Yeah! C'est La Eve .
Cearain
Plus 10 NV
#132 - 2012-10-31 20:33:29 UTC
X Gallentius wrote:
Poetic Stanziel wrote:
X Gallentius wrote:
1. That half pay is still enough to keep you fighting and in the game.
Barely. In really cheap ships and fits. And then only if you put a fair bit of time into solo PvE. So, "Yay FW for all the awesome PvE opportunities!"
Give me a break. You and all your friends and allies are fail if you can't support yourself at FW Tier 1 payouts. HTFU and go pirate if you think you have it so bad. Somehow those guys are able to make a living.



Roll

Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
X Gallentius
Black Eagle1
#133 - 2012-10-31 22:16:53 UTC
Cearain wrote:
X Gallentius wrote:
Poetic Stanziel wrote:
X Gallentius wrote:
1. That half pay is still enough to keep you fighting and in the game.
Barely. In really cheap ships and fits. And then only if you put a fair bit of time into solo PvE. So, "Yay FW for all the awesome PvE opportunities!"
Give me a break. You and all your friends and allies are fail if you can't support yourself at FW Tier 1 payouts. HTFU and go pirate if you think you have it so bad. Somehow those guys are able to make a living.

Roll
What? Amarr can reach Tier 2 right now? Roll, indeed.
Cearain
Plus 10 NV
#134 - 2012-10-31 22:26:39 UTC
X Gallentius wrote:
Cearain wrote:
X Gallentius wrote:
Poetic Stanziel wrote:
X Gallentius wrote:
1. That half pay is still enough to keep you fighting and in the game.
Barely. In really cheap ships and fits. And then only if you put a fair bit of time into solo PvE. So, "Yay FW for all the awesome PvE opportunities!"
Give me a break. You and all your friends and allies are fail if you can't support yourself at FW Tier 1 payouts. HTFU and go pirate if you think you have it so bad. Somehow those guys are able to make a living.

Roll
What? Amarr can reach Tier 2 right now? Roll, indeed.



XG if you are too dumb to realize most people will prefer more money to less then i don't even know why I think I will change your mind.

You keep thinking people will refuse more money because one side has "plenty"

We don't really know what you mean by plenty. Perhaps you mean pre inferno - when no one claimed we received plenty of money for plexing.

But whatever you think "plenty" is its clear that:

You keep thinking having "plenty" of isk is not at all related to how much isk your enemy has.

You keep thinking having "plenty" of isk is not at all related to how many more pilots your enemy has.

You are really beyond hope.

Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
X Gallentius
Black Eagle1
#135 - 2012-10-31 23:09:50 UTC  |  Edited by: X Gallentius
Cearain wrote:
...
Poetic Stanziel wrote:
X Gallentius wrote:
1. That half pay is still enough to keep you fighting and in the game.
Barely. In really cheap ships and fits. And then only if you put a fair bit of time into solo PvE. So, "Yay FW for all the awesome PvE opportunities!"
XG if you are too dumb to realize most people will prefer more money to less then i don't even know why I think I will change your mind.

I don't know why you are rolling your eyes or are even commenting.

  • You know Poetic is an outright liar when she says she can only afford to fly cheap ships and fits.
  • You also know that Tier 2 - which your side is currently at - provides enough resources for both sides to put up a good fight.
  • And you also know that the issue w.r.t alts following the isk and affecting occupancy warfare has been addressed by me, and that I agree it's a problem that needs to be addressed.


So, what exactly is your complaint here?
Zarnak Wulf
Task Force 641
Empyrean Edict
#136 - 2012-10-31 23:39:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Zarnak Wulf
Amarr is at tier 2. We've successfully held Siseide for six weeks (?) now. Before the recent patch we had to commit a lot of our resources to deplexing Siseide. You could set your watch to farmers coming and going. After the patch? The farmers have stopped. It has freed a lot of us up. We ran Dal up to 40% on Saturday before they responded. We had Auga up to 30% before I had to leave for work today.

If the farmers are still around I don't see them much. Even dplexing is hazardous in a war zone. Amarr is also working together a lot better then before. The Sahtogas crew got Saikamon vulnerable yesterday and a fleet of fweddit, imlaw, tmfed, and agony flipped it. And killing is awesome on the Amarr side. Hell, I'm very busy with work and family and my computer was in the shop for a week and I still got over 100 kills this month. The Amarr are hungry and mostly positive.
Cearain
Plus 10 NV
#137 - 2012-10-31 23:53:28 UTC
X Gallentius wrote:
Cearain wrote:
...
Poetic Stanziel wrote:
X Gallentius wrote:
1. That half pay is still enough to keep you fighting and in the game.
Barely. In really cheap ships and fits. And then only if you put a fair bit of time into solo PvE. So, "Yay FW for all the awesome PvE opportunities!"
XG if you are too dumb to realize most people will prefer more money to less then i don't even know why I think I will change your mind.

I don't know why you are rolling your eyes or are even commenting.

  • You know Poetic is an outright liar when she says she can only afford to fly cheap ships and fits.
  • You also know that Tier 2 - which your side is currently at - provides enough resources for both sides to put up a good fight.
  • And you also know that the issue w.r.t alts following the isk and affecting occupancy warfare has been addressed by me, and that I agree it's a problem that needs to be addressed.


So, what exactly is your complaint here?


Look at my post and think about what I wrote.

Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
Juan Rayo
Justified Chaos
#138 - 2012-10-31 23:59:09 UTC
Zarnak Wulf wrote:
Amarr is at tier 2. We've successfully held Siseide for six weeks (?) now. Before the recent patch we had to commit a lot of our resources to deplexing Siseide. You could set your watch to farmers coming and going. After the patch? The farmers have stopped. It has freed a lot of us up. We ran Dal up to 40% on Saturday before they responded. We had Auga up to 30% before I had to leave for work today.

If the farmers are still around I don't see them much. Even dplexing is hazardous in a war zone. Amarr is also working together a lot better then before. The Sahtogas crew got Saikamon vulnerable yesterday and a fleet of fweddit, imlaw, tmfed, and agony flipped it. And killing is awesome on the Amarr side. Hell, I'm very busy with work and family and my computer was in the shop for a week and I still got over 100 kills this month. The Amarr are hungry and mostly positive.


Nice, good job.
Cearain
Plus 10 NV
#139 - 2012-11-01 01:08:54 UTC
Zarnak Wulf wrote:
Amarr is at tier 2. We've successfully held Siseide for six weeks (?) now. Before the recent patch we had to commit a lot of our resources to deplexing Siseide. You could set your watch to farmers coming and going. After the patch? The farmers have stopped. It has freed a lot of us up. We ran Dal up to 40% on Saturday before they responded.

...



Of course they did. You saved them the trouble of having their alts contest the system enough for them to make isk dplexing it. If you think the war is winnable with these rules you need a math class.

There is no hope for the underdogs in this system. It deliberately set up to snowball in favor of the winning side.

Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
Zarnak Wulf
Task Force 641
Empyrean Edict
#140 - 2012-11-01 01:35:20 UTC
I don't need a math class. You need to log onto the game. You haven't been on in a month and quite a bit has changed.