These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

Warfare & Tactics

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

Faction Warfare - Same As It Ever Was

First post
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
Flyingleanpocket
Amarrian Vengeance
Ragequit Cancel Sub
#201 - 2012-11-03 16:35:31 UTC
Sura Sadiva wrote:
No, seriously now; this is a major unbalancment:

Why can't I get a salary just for being in a militia to cover any ship and stuff I want?

Pre-Inferno I was used to earn money doing exploration sites, but Jesus that's no fun, having to wait for those stupid probes to find something and then having to shoot at those red crosses, looting the wrecks... Why I cannot just sit in Rens doing nothing and have directly the same isk incominge as anyone else doing it?

And this FW is clearly broken as well: I should get paid simply cause I honor CCP and CSM joining a militia. And why have I to hang in those ****** warzone systems with all the routes clearly designed to bother me? And have to undock too (let's face it: hitting a stupid undock button is not PvP) also these systems are full of mean people trying to kill my ISK income.

I want an anser from CCP and CSM here: when will you fix things so I can get a daily salary for being in FW doing nothing but staying in Rens? Of course should be equivalent to any other players income? Will be this feauture released with Retribution? I bet no (aqnd this is clearly a proof as the current CSM is plotting against us).






Troll unsuccessful?
Poetic Stanziel
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#202 - 2012-11-03 18:52:19 UTC
X Gallentius wrote:
Poetic Stanziel wrote:
X Gallentius wrote:
Cearain wrote:
X Gallentius wrote:
Isk and rewards are not the issue. We have already proven all sides in FW make enough isk to continue the war. Carry on.
Could you offer this proof?
Tier 2 = Pre-inferno lp payouts. People could afford unlimited ships pre-inferno.
What happens when the Amarr end up at T1, because I doubt many of us are going to give a flying **** about circling buttons. Right now nobody from the Minmatar are trying to conquer systems. But eventually they probably will. We're in Egghelende for a reason, so that we don't have to care about PvE (we're nowhere near the systems we actually "control".) If the largest, most active Amarr alliances don't try to maintain any system sovereignty, how do all those other smaller alliances, who may care, try to earn an income for effective ships at T1? They'll be spending all their time circling buttons solo, and not spending much time PvPing. Which is probably not why they joined FW.

1 minor plex (10 minutes) = 5k LP, 2 minor plexes = 10k LP = 1 navy slice - a great ship for a noob. (Great for anybody. and minors have the worst payout)
But also:
1. Why do you have such a sense of entitlement? Why don't want to put any effort into your isk-making activities like everybody else.
2. Why do you feel you should receive the isk from the occupancy war when you don't want to participate?
First of all, you cannot offensively plex a minor in 10 minutes. More like 20 minutes now. And I already did the math on that.

If someone spends the time to do 2 minor plexes per day (40 minutes), they can earn ~540M ISK per month. Barely enough to keep some FWers in ships, not enough to keep most FWers in ships.

For a lot of FWers, that 40 minutes spent solo orbiting buttons could well be 1/3rd of their evening's playtime.

I participate. I participate in the PvP. It is what I feel is important. It is why I joined FW. I didn't join FW to orbit buttons (even though I did quite a lot of that during the previously skewed payment system, so that I could be in a position now where I do not have to do it. 25B ISK will last awhile.)
Cearain
Plus 10 NV
#203 - 2012-11-03 20:59:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Cearain
X Gallentius wrote:
Cearain wrote:
X Gallentius wrote:
Isk and rewards are not the issue. We have already proven all sides in FW make enough isk to continue the war. Carry on.



Could you offer this proof?

Tier 2 = Pre-inferno lp payouts. People could afford unlimited ships pre-inferno. Therefore, Poetic is full of sh**. QED.


Unlimited ships pre inferno? Are you refering to the rookie ships you get when you enter a station in a pod? You mean the money we made from missions when we could access our agents and didn't have other factions watering down the value of 90% of the faction war store?

You keep saying this and I keep telling you that the amount of isk you need to fight a war depends on the economic resources and numbers of your enemy.

You seem to think that someone needs a set amount of isk to fight a war regardless of the amount of economic resources or numbers the enemy has.

If you really beleive that then do you think your corp would do well if they entered a sov war with goonswarm? hey you are getting 2.5xs what you did pre inferno and that was "plenty" right?

Don't you think you would get crushed due to a lack of economic resources and numbers?

Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
Cearain
Plus 10 NV
#204 - 2012-11-03 21:07:36 UTC
Dan Carter Murray wrote:
Vordak Kallager wrote:
major hurdle for the Amarr-- they don't give a **** about the system and refuse to partake; however, they still feel entitled to complain about how unfair this system they are not interested in using is.

Interesting.


it's a few ******* people. not all of ******* amarr.



Well I admit I am not going to participate in a system where for every plex I take I get X isk and allow them to take it back for 2xX isk.

I can do the math in my head. I don't need to actually give the enemy the isk before I realize it's not a smart strategy. IMO Its better to let them just take all the systems and stop the bleeding.

Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
Muad 'dib
State War Academy
Caldari State
#205 - 2012-11-03 21:15:29 UTC  |  Edited by: Muad 'dib
before isk poured out of plexes and using effort to do missions in enemy territory was the only way to get rich, we had no issues.

theres too much bloody money tied to sov and plexes, making the isk go up on an NPC stage (even non player controlled situation) is always going to be a focus of farming and side blobbing.

too much isk and nothing to spend it on to actually hurts the cause for the war and makes it not worth fighting for, so in it self destructive.

i didnt join fw for isk and i dont waste my time trying to earnt it over killing the other side, there is something to be said for the isk attraction creating targets, but its slipped out of the realm of sanity and the simple goal of battle for it in the first place has slipped away.

people raging happens when money is involved, i dont hate my enemy in fact many are good friends, we fight the fight because we want to fight not because doing so lines our pockets and buys us fleets of ships we never use.

stop all this bickering and mud slinging its stupid, nonconstructive and unattractive to potential new players, corps and ofc now alliances.

Cosmic signature detected. . . . http://i.imgur.com/Z7NfIS6.jpg I got 99 likes, and this post aint one.
X Gallentius
Black Eagle1
#206 - 2012-11-04 04:16:54 UTC
Cearain wrote:
Unlimited ships pre inferno? Are you refering to the rookie ships you get when you enter a station in a pod?
What part about 90-105k LP/hour at 3k isk/lp profit for about 250 million isk/hour don't you understand? Just asking.
X Gallentius
Black Eagle1
#207 - 2012-11-04 04:25:21 UTC
Quote:
First of all, you cannot offensively plex a minor in 10 minutes. More like 20 minutes now.
Aside from all the BS you've posted so far, why does it take you 20 minutes to cap a minor when it takes everybody else 12 minutes? What are you doing that is so fail?
Poetic Stanziel
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#208 - 2012-11-04 06:08:03 UTC
X Gallentius wrote:
Quote:
First of all, you cannot offensively plex a minor in 10 minutes. More like 20 minutes now.
Aside from all the BS you've posted so far, why does it take you 20 minutes to cap a minor when it takes everybody else 12 minutes? What are you doing that is so fail?
The time to the plex, getting through the gate, travel to button. Five (or four) waves of rats. All that can be done in 12 minutes? And then finding the next unoccupied minor (which is a system over, at best), to repeat. Please. I'd like to see the fraps of this amazing feat. With newbro skills, mind you, in a newbro ship.
X Gallentius
Black Eagle1
#209 - 2012-11-04 06:23:11 UTC  |  Edited by: X Gallentius
Poetic Stanziel wrote:
X Gallentius wrote:
Quote:
First of all, you cannot offensively plex a minor in 10 minutes. More like 20 minutes now.
Aside from all the BS you've posted so far, why does it take you 20 minutes to cap a minor when it takes everybody else 12 minutes? What are you doing that is so fail?
The time to the plex, getting through the gate, travel to button. Five (or four) waves of rats. All that can be done in 12 minutes? And then finding the next unoccupied minor (which is a system over, at best), to repeat. Please. I'd like to see the fraps of this amazing feat. With newbro skills, mind you, in a newbro ship.
Oh you're counting time that you're also roaming around looking for fights too. OK. Got it. Including travel time, probably 14 minutes.
Joanna Ramirez
Intaki Militia
#210 - 2012-11-04 07:05:59 UTC  |  Edited by: Joanna Ramirez
X Gallentius wrote:
Cearain wrote:
Unlimited ships pre inferno? Are you refering to the rookie ships you get when you enter a station in a pod?
What part about 90-105k LP/hour at 3k isk/lp profit for about 250 million isk/hour don't you understand? Just asking.


Personally I have little interest to participate in occupancy war except by bare minimum, because supposedly we are to thank CCP for the scraps that drop from the feasting table they put up for Gallente/Minmatar militia with their one-sided and biased decision.
chatgris
Quantum Cats Syndicate
Of Essence
#211 - 2012-11-04 07:42:21 UTC  |  Edited by: chatgris
Joanna Ramirez wrote:
X Gallentius wrote:
Cearain wrote:
Unlimited ships pre inferno? Are you refering to the rookie ships you get when you enter a station in a pod?
What part about 90-105k LP/hour at 3k isk/lp profit for about 250 million isk/hour don't you understand? Just asking.


Personally I have little interest to participate in occupancy war except by bare minimum, because supposedly we are to thank CCP for the scraps that drop from the feasting table they put up for Gallente/Minmatar militia with their one-sided and biased decision.


You know, while you sit there and complain about the current state of fw (which is the best it's ever been) and alleged gallente/minmatar bias, other Caldari like Happy Endings are taking system after system. The amarr are much stronger now than they ever were pre-inferno.

The only thing I think you are sore about is you've lost the farming army and ability to offensively capture any size plex with a noob alt in a frigate.
Joanna Ramirez
Intaki Militia
#212 - 2012-11-04 07:52:33 UTC
chatgris wrote:
The only thing I think you are sore about is you've lost the farming army and ability to capture any size plex with a noob alt in a frigate.


Not in the least but I I can add it to list of other Gallente favoured changes like plex spawns, npc nerf, dominion debacle, etc. that CCP put put already.
Dan Carter Murray
#213 - 2012-11-04 08:16:00 UTC
X Gallentius wrote:
Quote:
First of all, you cannot offensively plex a minor in 10 minutes. More like 20 minutes now.
Aside from all the BS you've posted so far, why does it take you 20 minutes to cap a minor when it takes everybody else 12 minutes? What are you doing that is so fail?


I JUST TIMED ONE I DID IT IN 11. BOOYAH X GAL.

http://mfi.re/?j7ldoco 50GB free space @ MediaFire.com
Crosi Wesdo
War and Order
#214 - 2012-11-04 11:20:55 UTC
Joanna Ramirez wrote:
chatgris wrote:
The only thing I think you are sore about is you've lost the farming army and ability to capture any size plex with a noob alt in a frigate.


Not in the least but I I can add it to list of other Gallente favoured changes like plex spawns, npc nerf, dominion debacle, etc. that CCP put put already.


Dont worry, we here at CCP DnD have more evil plans that like usual, barely any one other than you will notice lol.
Abyssum Invocat
Yet Another Tax Haven
#215 - 2012-11-04 11:42:43 UTC
Dan Carter Murray wrote:
dumb mother ******* wrote:

stupidity


okay enough of the ******* bullshit.

if you aren't living in FW lowsec, you might as well get the **** out of FW and become a pirate.

quit crying about orbiting ******* buttons.

make an alt to defensive plex and get wtf LP for doing absolutely nothing. oh wait...your alt is in minmatar militia...you ******* morons.

use your main to go where SOMEONE LIVES and you will get ALL THE ******* FIGHTS YOU ******* WANT.

If you want isk, and don't want to do "PVE"...well then guess what? YOU WERE DOING PVE DOING THE ******* FW MISSIONS BEFORE INFERNO FOR FUCKS SAKE.

at least now when you "PVE" orbiting a button you get isk AND POSSIBLY A FIGHT.

so GET THE **** OUT of FW and become a ******* PIRATE if you want to keep ******* COMPLAINING about the ******* MECHANICS that exisited PRE-******* INFERNO regarding PVE to make isk.

you can find PVP if you plex. so it turns out you get the BEST OF BOTH WORLDS.

oh **** i'm making LP AND killing ******* that enter the ******* PLEX I'M ORBITING...OHGODWHY

OH NOES no one entered my plex and i finished it?! wow i just made 10MIL ISK FOR DOING A MINOR...oh wait if you're amarr YOU MADE ABOUT 17 MIL.

oh noes we're at tier 1 boo ******* hoo...but you can't complain if you hit tier 1 because YOU LIVE OUTSIDE OF FW ******* LOWSEC.

ERMAGERD I DON'T WANT TO GET LOCKED OUT OF MY STUFFZ...then take your dumb ******* alt out of minmatar militia and put him back into your militia and DEFENSIVE PLEX...

and quit piling every major corp into one ******* system... are you English or ********? seriously... move to a few systems 2-3 jumps away and OH MY GOD WE CAN HOLD MULTIPLE SYSTEMS...oh and NOW YOU CAN USE YOUR ****** ALT to defend ALL THE SYSTEMS AROUND YOU...

so ENOUGH OF THE ******* BULLSHIT...

oh and regarding the "BLAH BLAH ESZUR/HOF CHOKE"....yeah it ******* SUCKS...but guess what? THERE ARE SYSTEMS IN METRO that you can move your ****** ******* ATTITUDE CORP TO...

(╯°□°）╯︵ ┻━┻


This made the prior 10 pages worth it.
Abyssum Invocat
Yet Another Tax Haven
#216 - 2012-11-04 11:50:55 UTC  |  Edited by: Abyssum Invocat
Cearain wrote:
Dan Carter Murray wrote:
Vordak Kallager wrote:
major hurdle for the Amarr-- they don't give a **** about the system and refuse to partake; however, they still feel entitled to complain about how unfair this system they are not interested in using is.

Interesting.


it's a few ******* people. not all of ******* amarr.



Well I admit I am not going to participate in a system where for every plex I take I get X isk and allow them to take it back for 2xX isk.

I can do the math in my head. I don't need to actually give the enemy the isk before I realize it's not a smart strategy. IMO Its better to let them just take all the systems and stop the bleeding.

You keep repeating the same argument here. You refuse to defend your space because it indirectly aids your enemy. If you do not want to participate in FW, right click your name and quit corporation. If you truly give a solitary **** about this, then log on, grind your isk whichever way you ******* want and go pvp. You are accomplishing nothing with this stubborn conscientious objector mentality. If you really gave a modicum of **** you would use half the time you spend on the forums instead fighting for your space and have perpetual tier 5.

I'm sorry, but there is dissenting and then there is whining. This thread is a tome of excuses as to why you refuse to help your side and yourself, for the pettiest and most ridiculous reasons.
Sura Sadiva
Entropic Tactical Crew
#217 - 2012-11-04 13:08:46 UTC
Flyingleanpocket wrote:
Sura Sadiva wrote:
No, seriously now; this is a major unbalancment:

Why can't I get a salary just for being in a militia to cover any ship and stuff I want?

Pre-Inferno I was used to earn money doing exploration sites, but Jesus that's no fun, having to wait for those stupid probes to find something and then having to shoot at those red crosses, looting the wrecks... Why I cannot just sit in Rens doing nothing and have directly the same isk incominge as anyone else doing it?

And this FW is clearly broken as well: I should get paid simply cause I honor CCP and CSM joining a militia. And why have I to hang in those ****** warzone systems with all the routes clearly designed to bother me? And have to undock too (let's face it: hitting a stupid undock button is not PvP) also these systems are full of mean people trying to kill my ISK income.

I want an anser from CCP and CSM here: when will you fix things so I can get a daily salary for being in FW doing nothing but staying in Rens? Of course should be equivalent to any other players income? Will be this feauture released with Retribution? I bet no (aqnd this is clearly a proof as the current CSM is plotting against us).






Troll unsuccessful?



Not at all, Sir. I'm serious, since I gifted the FW with my cracious presence now I expect to know what hans and the CSM will do to support my expansive lifestyle.
I hope you don't really expect me to hit a silly undock button.
Bad Messenger
Rehabilitation Clinic
#218 - 2012-11-04 13:28:37 UTC
chatgris wrote:
Joanna Ramirez wrote:
X Gallentius wrote:
Cearain wrote:
Unlimited ships pre inferno? Are you refering to the rookie ships you get when you enter a station in a pod?
What part about 90-105k LP/hour at 3k isk/lp profit for about 250 million isk/hour don't you understand? Just asking.


Personally I have little interest to participate in occupancy war except by bare minimum, because supposedly we are to thank CCP for the scraps that drop from the feasting table they put up for Gallente/Minmatar militia with their one-sided and biased decision.


You know, while you sit there and complain about the current state of fw (which is the best it's ever been) and alleged gallente/minmatar bias, other Caldari like Happy Endings are taking system after system. The amarr are much stronger now than they ever were pre-inferno.

The only thing I think you are sore about is you've lost the farming army and ability to offensively capture any size plex with a noob alt in a frigate.


Actually i am happy now, now i can play wot 24/7 without worrying that some try to flip systems.
March rabbit
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#219 - 2012-11-04 13:52:32 UTC
Poetic Stanziel wrote:
March rabbit wrote:
.. and now you whine you can't afford ships?
I'm fine on ISK and ships. I'm just thinking about newbros.

it does not change my question. Should those who "don't care" have it or don't?

The Mittani: "the inappropriate drunked joke"
Abyssum Invocat
Yet Another Tax Haven
#220 - 2012-11-04 13:55:41 UTC
I just don't get it. The best sustainable model for PvP as an actual career comes along and crusades are being lead by people who "don't care about the isk" but think it's unfair for the winning sides to make more. Meanwhile they do little to enact changes in the warzone and instead lobby for everyone's incomes to be nerfed by a return to old FW.