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I Challenge Hans ...

First post
Author
Poetic Stanziel
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#1 - 2012-10-23 21:13:45 UTC
I challenge Hans to be a true representative of Faction Warfare. I challenge him to spend the rest of his term on the losing side of the equation. To see how to other side plays faction warfare, to see how they view it.

Join iLaw (he wouldn't fit into Fweddit, so I don't suggest that as an option) until your term is up.

Instead of viewing the Amarr as simply a bunch of ungrateful whiners, who aren't appreciative of your efforts, join them and see why we view you as someone with only a single worldview where faction warfare is concerned.
Marcel Devereux
Aideron Robotics
#2 - 2012-10-23 21:19:58 UTC
Poetic Stanziel wrote:
I challenge Hans to be a true representative of Faction Warfare. I challenge him to spend the rest of his term on the losing side of the equation. To see how to other side plays faction warfare, to see how they view it.

Join iLaw (he wouldn't fit into Fweddit, so I don't suggest that as an option) until your term is up.

Instead of viewing the Amarr as simply a bunch of ungrateful whiners, who aren't appreciative of your efforts, join them and see why we view you as someone with only a single worldview where faction warfare is concerned.


I will extend him the same offer. He can join Aideron Robotics and join the "losing" side of the Caldari/Gallente war.
corestwo
Goonfleet Investment Banking
#3 - 2012-10-23 21:36:39 UTC
You fled the losing side in the face of a horde of farmers (Lol) to join the winning Caldari, and are only now returning back after Agony Empire & company might have a shot at turning things around (and they're off to a fine start if the current map is any indication.) In other words, you're on pretty shaky ground when it comes to calling anyone out on "being able to hack it".

This post was crafted by a member of the GoonSwarm Federation Economic Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.

fofofo

Poetic Stanziel
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#4 - 2012-10-23 21:44:42 UTC
corestwo wrote:
You fled the losing side in the face of a horde of farmers (Lol) to join the winning Caldari, and are only now returning back after Agony Empire & company might have a shot at turning things around (and they're off to a fine start if the current map is any indication.) In other words, you're on pretty shaky ground when it comes to calling anyone out on "being able to hack it".
Umm.

We live in Amarr space because we prefer the fights down here. We're returning to the Amarr faction because the new rules make it silly to remain Caldari and fight in the Amarr warzone.

Agony and PIE won't have the effect they wish for, because the Euro timezone belongs to the Minmatar.
Almity
In Exile.
#5 - 2012-10-23 21:49:38 UTC
I extended a similar offer to Hans a long while ago. A spot in our fleets and on comms to get an idea of what being on the otherwise of the fence feels like. Make an Amarr alt, train him for a week, and come fly with us! The offer still stands Hans.
corestwo
Goonfleet Investment Banking
#6 - 2012-10-23 21:53:36 UTC
Poetic Stanziel wrote:
corestwo wrote:
You fled the losing side in the face of a horde of farmers (Lol) to join the winning Caldari, and are only now returning back after Agony Empire & company might have a shot at turning things around (and they're off to a fine start if the current map is any indication.) In other words, you're on pretty shaky ground when it comes to calling anyone out on "being able to hack it".
Umm.

We live in Amarr space because we prefer the fights down here. We're returning to the Amarr faction because the new rules make it silly to remain Caldari and fight in the Amarr warzone.

Agony and PIE won't have the effect they wish for, because the Euro timezone belongs to the Minmatar.

In other words, you joined the faction that allowed you to continue to fight in Amarr space, on behalf of the Amarr, without any of the downsides to actually being Amarr. Gotcha.

This post was crafted by a member of the GoonSwarm Federation Economic Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.

fofofo

Poetic Stanziel
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#7 - 2012-10-23 21:54:22 UTC
Almity wrote:
I extended a similar offer to Hans a long while ago. A spot in our fleets and on comms to get an idea of what being on the otherwise of the fence feels like. Make an Amarr alt, train him for a week, and come fly with us! The offer still stands Hans.
Not even an alt. He has to commit to the new faction. Spend the majority of his game time with them.
Poetic Stanziel
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#8 - 2012-10-23 21:56:05 UTC  |  Edited by: ISD Dorrim Barstorlode
corestwo wrote:
Poetic Stanziel wrote:
corestwo wrote:
You fled the losing side in the face of a horde of farmers (Lol) to join the winning Caldari, and are only now returning back after Agony Empire & company might have a shot at turning things around (and they're off to a fine start if the current map is any indication.) In other words, you're on pretty shaky ground when it comes to calling anyone out on "being able to hack it".
Umm.

We live in Amarr space because we prefer the fights down here. We're returning to the Amarr faction because the new rules make it silly to remain Caldari and fight in the Amarr warzone.

Agony and PIE won't have the effect they wish for, because the Euro timezone belongs to the Minmatar.

In other words, you joined the faction that allowed you to continue to fight in Amarr space, on behalf of the Amarr, without any of the downsides to actually being Amarr. Gotcha.
Exactly. Because the broken game mechanics encouraged it.

Just as the broken mechanics encourage the winning side to care about warzone control, while encouraging the losing side to not care. This is the side of faction warfare that Hans does not understand.

Please don't try and get around the profanity filter. Thank you. -ISD Dorrim Barstorlode
Shalee Lianne
Banana-Republic.
HERO Coalition.
#9 - 2012-10-23 21:57:40 UTC
Thanks Poe for inviting people to our corp lol. +1 for Poe recruitment.

Not just Hans. I would love it if CCP (the ones working on FW) would join our fleets for a couple of nights and see how it feels to be Amarr Militia.
http://amarrian.blogspot.com/  ~ Roleplay blog. http://sovereigntywars.wordpress.com/ ~ Faction War blog.
corestwo
Goonfleet Investment Banking
#10 - 2012-10-23 22:01:58 UTC
Poetic Stanziel wrote:
corestwo wrote:
Poetic Stanziel wrote:
corestwo wrote:
You fled the losing side in the face of a horde of farmers (Lol) to join the winning Caldari, and are only now returning back after Agony Empire & company might have a shot at turning things around (and they're off to a fine start if the current map is any indication.) In other words, you're on pretty shaky ground when it comes to calling anyone out on "being able to hack it".
Umm.

We live in Amarr space because we prefer the fights down here. We're returning to the Amarr faction because the new rules make it silly to remain Caldari and fight in the Amarr warzone.

Agony and PIE won't have the effect they wish for, because the Euro timezone belongs to the Minmatar.

In other words, you joined the faction that allowed you to continue to fight in Amarr space, on behalf of the Amarr, without any of the downsides to actually being Amarr. Gotcha.
Exactly. Because the broken game mechanics encouraged it.

Just as the broken mechanics encourage the winning side to care about warzone control, while encouraging the losing side to not give a shit. This is the side of faction warfare that Hans does not understand.

So...why should Hans join again? The broken mechanics encourage him to stay on the winning side.

Here's a better idea: Suck it up and make him be on the losing side instead of whinging that he "doesn't get it" because his factional loyalties are less fluid than yours.


ps evading word filters is bad juju mmmmkay.

This post was crafted by a member of the GoonSwarm Federation Economic Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.

fofofo

Bagehi
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#11 - 2012-10-23 22:15:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Bagehi
Poetic Stanziel wrote:
I challenge Hans to be a true representative of Faction Warfare. I challenge him to spend the rest of his term on the losing side of the equation. To see how to other side plays faction warfare, to see how they view it.

Join iLaw (he wouldn't fit into Fweddit, so I don't suggest that as an option) until your term is up.

Instead of viewing the Amarr as simply a bunch of ungrateful whiners, who aren't appreciative of your efforts, join them and see why we view you as someone with only a single worldview where faction warfare is concerned.


You assume he doesn't have an alt in Fweddit. Half of null have alts in fweddit. It is my understanding that a chunk of the guys who really, truly, game the FW system (well gamed until CCP started attempting to quash the LP printing business) had a collection of characters on both sides to properly game the system. I would hazard a guess that most of the big names in FW also did similar things with alts. He's likely flown beside you in fleets. I know I have.
Poetic Stanziel
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#12 - 2012-10-23 22:37:00 UTC
Shalee Lianne wrote:
Thanks Poe for inviting people to our corp lol. +1 for Poe recruitment.
He would hate being in Fweddit ... but I think he would feel very much at home in iLaw. Smile iLaw is awesome of course. Just slightly less awesome that Fweddit, but we're both so awesome there's little point differentiating. Big smile
Poetic Stanziel
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#13 - 2012-10-23 22:38:05 UTC
Bagehi wrote:
You assume he doesn't have an alt in Fweddit.
He doesn't.

But an alt is hardly living and experiencing the situation. Short occasional vacations on the other side will tell you hardly anything at all.
Poetic Stanziel
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#14 - 2012-10-23 22:41:51 UTC
corestwo wrote:
ps evading word filters is bad juju mmmmkay.
The word filters here are bad. If it allows one instance over another, I figure it's okay to use a filter to show all instances.

**** vs. shitpost, for instance. (No word filters used.)
corestwo
Goonfleet Investment Banking
#15 - 2012-10-23 22:47:47 UTC
More excuses. That and histrionics are all you seem to be good for.

This post was crafted by a member of the GoonSwarm Federation Economic Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.

fofofo

Poetic Stanziel
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#16 - 2012-10-23 23:33:44 UTC
corestwo wrote:
More excuses.
If he wants to represent faction warfare he should be willing to live it from both sides of the fence.
rodyas
Tie Fighters Inc
#17 - 2012-10-23 23:58:20 UTC  |  Edited by: rodyas
^ What if he just asked for your opinion instead of changing sides? Would that suffice? Of course you usually complain about their lack of communication, so maybe it is hard to offer your opinion, but perhaps try giving it in game or through evemail and not just forums or so.

Signature removed for inappropriate language - CCP Eterne

Poetic Stanziel
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#18 - 2012-10-24 00:03:55 UTC
rodyas wrote:
^ What if he just asked for your opinion instead of changing sides? Would that suffice?
He's discounted a lot of Amarr opinions as whining, because we're on the losing side. If he wants to understand the Amarr position, then he should live it for a three or four months.

I don't understand what it's like to be in a warzone by watching the evening news, for instance. I don't understand what it's like to be poor, by having poor people fill out a survey for me. If I'm serious about understanding either of those things, then you have to experience it first-hand. Of course, these experiences aren't readily in reach for those living on the other side of the fence.

At least with faction warfare, Hans can experience living as an Amarr, if he so chooses. Quite easily.
Vordak Kallager
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#19 - 2012-10-24 00:05:43 UTC
The problems the Amarr face are not something Hans, the CSM or CCP can fix. It's a lack of dedicated and driven pilots across all timezones that are willing to sacrifice time/effort to "play the sovwar game" doing stuff like d&o.plexing and such. Similarly, (and perhaps this has changed in the past few months; I haven't had actual alts [not just bunker-busting newb alts] in the Amarr since just after Inferno) you are not a very connected militia, whether it be across timezones or even within timezones. You (I'm speaking generally here, not just about one individual or even all individuals) like to lay blame for failures: W-BR wouldn't help, Agony just feeds, ARETR are just plexers, etc.

The Minmatar militia is a giant family and we have learned through time and hard work that we can depend on one another. We have our fair share of drama or whatever, but it never gets to the point where we can no longer cooperate or are no longer willing to cooperate. I am proud to be apart of the same brotherhood as Defiant Legacy, Swift Angels Alliance, Iron Oxide., Sicarius Draconis, U'K, and EM. I just don't see that in the Amarr militia; time and time again, the strength of the Amarr has crumbled due to internal conflicts that ultimately results in a lack of cooperation or pilots leaving.

tl;dr - there are great people in the amarr militia, but not enough of them mostly because the amarr don't like working together/compromising/etc.

Furthermore, why should Hans (a volunteer) have to abandon his friends in the game for your sake? He is a conduit between the players and CCP. He isn't a developer, he isn't a shot-caller or upper management who can decide what CCP does. He gives them player feedback. If you choose not to utilize him to represent your own concerns then that is your own damn fault.

Sa souvraya niende misain ye.

Poetic Stanziel
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#20 - 2012-10-24 00:10:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Poetic Stanziel
Vordak Kallager wrote:
Furthermore, why should Hans (a volunteer) have to abandon his friends in the game for your sake?
My sake? It's for the sake of his better understanding of the system he represents. And he'll broaden his base of friends, rather than giving them up.

Your post is exactly why Hans should join the Amarr for a few months. You confess not having alts in the Amarr militia, yet you're quite quick with telling us exactly what our problems are. Your viewpoint exactly mirrors Hans' viewpoint. He seems to know what the Amarr problems are without ever having been in the Amarr.
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