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Why a high sec nerf is good for industrialists.

Author
Natsett Amuinn
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#141 - 2012-10-23 20:39:10 UTC
Touval Lysander wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Silk daShocka wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
[quote=Silk daShocka]
Our industrialists enjoy things most industrialis in empire can only dream of.


You mean the things empire industrialists already have that we don't have to rely on masters to provide?


Good luck finding a loan as a nub or making use of jump freighters and bridges in highsec.

We work for our money.

And would they be the same bridges and jump freighters that allow you to take x number of products in x number of jumps to x number of stations for x number of people?

And we need to nerf highsec because you can?

Those bridges and jump freighters?


Yes, because they undermine and trivialize null sec industry by providing good at prices that make it anywhere from worthless to pointless to compete with.

Limitted volume makes it pointless to compete for sales that only give you slighly more than it cost you to build, Everytime someone imports from high sec and sells at greatly reduced profit margins in null, they make building in null worthless.
Silk daShocka
Greasy Hair Club
#142 - 2012-10-23 20:41:26 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Silk daShocka wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
[quote=Silk daShocka]
Our industrialists enjoy things most industrialis in empire can only dream of.


You mean the things empire industrialists already have that we don't have to rely on masters to provide?


Good luck finding a loan as a nub or making use of jump freighters and bridges in highsec.


I'm sure you will be saying GL finding a decent refine at a highsec station when your calling for more nerfs cuz the last weren't enough to force the industrialists to go work with the ones they hate, should your wish of nerf high sec come true.
Natsett Amuinn
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#143 - 2012-10-23 20:47:15 UTC
Silk daShocka wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Silk daShocka wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
[quote=Silk daShocka]
Our industrialists enjoy things most industrialis in empire can only dream of.


You mean the things empire industrialists already have that we don't have to rely on masters to provide?


Good luck finding a loan as a nub or making use of jump freighters and bridges in highsec.


I'm sure you will be saying GL finding a decent refine at a highsec station when your calling for more nerfs cuz the last weren't enough to force the industrialists to go work with the ones they hate, should your wish of nerf high sec come true.

I think you overestimate the full awareness of many high sec industrialists.

You also give more credit to null than it deserves. Believe it or not, null isn't responcible for everything that happens in high sec.
Silk daShocka
Greasy Hair Club
#144 - 2012-10-23 20:52:01 UTC
Natsett Amuinn wrote:


You also give more credit to null than it deserves. Believe it or not, null isn't responcible for everything that happens in high sec.


Null is responsible for people calling for nerfs to hi-sec. That is all I've ever claimed in this thread aside from goons blowing up industrialists.
Touval Lysander
Zero Wine
#145 - 2012-10-23 21:04:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Touval Lysander
Natsett Amuinn wrote:

Yes, because they undermine and trivialize null sec industry by providing good at prices that make it anywhere from worthless to pointless to compete with.

Limitted volume makes it pointless to compete for sales that only give you slighly more than it cost you to build, Everytime someone imports from high sec and sells at greatly reduced profit margins in null, they make building in null worthless.

Whoa.... Nullsec pilots are using some brain power and importing from highsec to sell to nullsec and this is crippling nullsec industry? Duh. Of course it would. So what? As long as 0.0 is adequately supplied - the ONLY critical factor worth worrying about - then big deal.

I'll don my inquisitor hat....

1) Let me get this straight, you want the benefits of highsec AND the benefits of nullsec?
2) The solution is to hit the entire HIGHSEC membership because some NULLSEC PILOTS are smarter than you?
3) Perhaps those bridges and jump freighters are the real problem?

SOLUTIONS
i) Nerf bridges and jump freighters. Then there is no need to even touch highsec - win/win.
ii) Make an alliance wide NO IMPORT RULE. No? YOU don't want rules to fix it, everybody else needs rules to fix it.
iii) Shoot the JF's doing the importing?
vi) Kick the pilot/s doing the importing?

You know - PvP... (That's what the importer is using - and winning it seems)

By all means, have more slots to make it easier. By all means have WHATEVER you need to fix it. Double the roids, 100% refine, WHATEVER.....

But get your dirty little hands OFF highsec - we are NOT your problem. YOU are your problem.

"I've always been mad, I know I've been mad, like the most of us...very hard to explain why you're mad, even if you're not mad..."

Natsett Amuinn
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#146 - 2012-10-23 21:06:15 UTC
Silk daShocka wrote:
Natsett Amuinn wrote:


You also give more credit to null than it deserves. Believe it or not, null isn't responcible for everything that happens in high sec.


Null is responsible for people calling for nerfs to hi-sec. That is all I've ever claimed in this thread aside from goons blowing up industrialists.

Once again, what I mean by simplifying a problem.

It's "null is responcible"

Not industry isn't worthwhile to do in null.

It's easier to just put the blame on the people playing here, which is what everyone one of you that makes a "it's nulls fault" post are saying. It's not mechanics, it's not a lack of incentive, it's nothing to do with anything but us as a group.


If only those damned minorities would just clean up there streets and stop shooting each other, then money would just come flooding in and people would suddenly have jobs that paid well and access to things that the privileged have. If those damned minorities would just stop acting like minorities then they'd have good schools and medical care.

That's the mentality that a lot of you seem to have in regard to issues in null sec.

Natsett Amuinn
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#147 - 2012-10-23 21:11:06 UTC
Touval Lysander wrote:
Natsett Amuinn wrote:

Yes, because they undermine and trivialize null sec industry by providing good at prices that make it anywhere from worthless to pointless to compete with.

Limitted volume makes it pointless to compete for sales that only give you slighly more than it cost you to build, Everytime someone imports from high sec and sells at greatly reduced profit margins in null, they make building in null worthless.

Whoa.... Nullsec pilots are using some brain power and importing from highsec to sell to nullsec and this is crippling nullsec industry? Duh. Of course it would. So what? As long as 0.0 is adequately supplied - the ONLY critical factor worth worrying about - then big deal.

I'll don my inquisitor hat....

1) Let me get this straight, you want the benefits of highsec AND the benefits of nullsec?
2) The solution is to hit the entire HIGHSEC membership because some NULLSEC PILOTS are smarter than you?
3) Perhaps those bridges and jump freighters are the real problem?

SOLUTIONS
i) Nerf bridges and jump freighters. Then there is no need to even touch highsec - win/win.
ii) Make an alliance wide NO IMPORT RULE. No? YOU don't want rules to fix it, everybody else needs rules to fix it.
iii) Shoot the JF's doing the importing?
vi) Kick the pilot/s doing the importing?

You know - PvP... (That's what the importer is using - and winning it seems)

By all means, have more slots to make it easier. By all means have WHATEVER you need to fix it. Double the roids, 100% refine, WHATEVER.....

But get your dirty little hands OFF highsec - we are NOT your problem. YOU are your problem.

You're so full of ****.

A few posts ago, you had an entirely different excuse.

Oh hey, It's Mr. Hypocrit, the guy who was making post after post after post about how CCP needs to change null sec mechanics so that you could run one man corps in null for PoS set up.

Yeah, hi Mr. Hypocrit, "gets your hands off high sec". I see you there.
Touval Lysander
Zero Wine
#148 - 2012-10-23 21:14:40 UTC
Natsett Amuinn wrote:

If only those damned minorities would just clean up there streets and stop shooting each other, then money would just come flooding in and people would suddenly have jobs that paid well and access to things that the privileged have. If those damned minorities would just stop acting like minorities then they'd have good schools and medical care.

That's the mentality that a lot of you seem to have in regard to issues in null sec.

So you'd prefer a welfare state? Let's tax and **** everybody over so we can clean up your dirty little street?

What I'd do, since I AM genuinely interested in helping you....

GIVE YOU A BROOM!

"I've always been mad, I know I've been mad, like the most of us...very hard to explain why you're mad, even if you're not mad..."

Touval Lysander
Zero Wine
#149 - 2012-10-23 21:17:24 UTC  |  Edited by: Touval Lysander
Natsett Amuinn wrote:
You're so full of ****.

A few posts ago, you had an entirely different excuse.

Oh hey, It's Mr. Hypocrit, the guy who was making post after post after post about how CCP needs to change null sec mechanics so that you could run one man corps in null for PoS set up.

Yeah, hi Mr. Hypocrit, "gets your hands off high sec". I see you there.

Which might be true but you've taken it out of context.

I'm looking at ways to get MORE people into null. A carrot.

You guys are looking at ways to have LESS people in high. A stick.

THAT's the difference.


Psst... Never asked for mechanics to be changed either. Asked for some POS changes. The rest happens by itself. The LESS work you offer CCP to fix things, the MORE likely it may be considered. A point many whiners forget - there are PEOPLE and A REAL BUSINESS involved in all these "equations" to fix everything.

"I've always been mad, I know I've been mad, like the most of us...very hard to explain why you're mad, even if you're not mad..."

Natsett Amuinn
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#150 - 2012-10-23 21:17:52 UTC
Touval Lysander wrote:
Natsett Amuinn wrote:

If only those damned minorities would just clean up there streets and stop shooting each other, then money would just come flooding in and people would suddenly have jobs that paid well and access to things that the privileged have. If those damned minorities would just stop acting like minorities then they'd have good schools and medical care.

That's the mentality that a lot of you seem to have in regard to issues in null sec.

So you'd prefer a welfare state? Let's tax and **** everybody over so we can clean up your dirty little street?

What I'd do, since I AM genuinely interested in helping you....

GIVE YOU A BROOM!

You're confused.

We're already a welfare state genius.

A nonwelfare state would imply that we were able to provide more for ourselves and be less dependant on the WEALTHY to provide for us.
Silk daShocka
Greasy Hair Club
#151 - 2012-10-23 21:17:58 UTC
Natsett Amuinn wrote:
Silk daShocka wrote:
Natsett Amuinn wrote:


You also give more credit to null than it deserves. Believe it or not, null isn't responcible for everything that happens in high sec.


Null is responsible for people calling for nerfs to hi-sec. That is all I've ever claimed in this thread aside from goons blowing up industrialists.

Once again, what I mean by simplifying a problem.

It's "null is responcible"

Not industry isn't worthwhile to do in null.

It's easier to just put the blame on the people playing here, which is what everyone one of you that makes a "it's nulls fault" post are saying. It's not mechanics, it's not a lack of incentive, it's nothing to do with anything but us as a group.


If only those damned minorities would just clean up there streets and stop shooting each other, then money would just come flooding in and people would suddenly have jobs that paid well and access to things that the privileged have. If those damned minorities would just stop acting like minorities then they'd have good schools and medical care.

That's the mentality that a lot of you seem to have in regard to issues in null sec.



What you posted had nothing to do with what you quoted, please stop quoting my posts if your just going to post bsery and nonsense/.
Natsett Amuinn
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#152 - 2012-10-23 21:20:51 UTC  |  Edited by: Natsett Amuinn
Touval Lysander wrote:
Natsett Amuinn wrote:
You're so full of ****.

A few posts ago, you had an entirely different excuse.

Oh hey, It's Mr. Hypocrit, the guy who was making post after post after post about how CCP needs to change null sec mechanics so that you could run one man corps in null for PoS set up.

Yeah, hi Mr. Hypocrit, "gets your hands off high sec". I see you there.

Which might be true but you've taken it out of context.

I'm looking at ways to get MORE people into null. A carrot.

You guys are looking at ways to have LESS people in high. A stick.

THAT's the difference.

Then you didn't read my suggestion, which wouldn't hurt high in any way, while providing a "carot" for doing industry in null.

I support BUFFING HIGH SEC to buff null, it only LOOKS like a nerf to people that can't grasp that I want to increse the value of high sec stuff, at the same time increase null value more, but not more than high.

The only way that works is by reducing high sec output. The only people that would be most effected are people who do everything themselves, and I don't think those people should be considered. if you ignore everyone else in the game, then **** you.
Natsett Amuinn
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#153 - 2012-10-23 21:21:44 UTC
Silk daShocka wrote:


What you posted had nothing to do with what you quoted, please stop quoting my posts if your just going to post bsery and nonsense/.


Keep telling yourself that.
Touval Lysander
Zero Wine
#154 - 2012-10-23 21:24:06 UTC
Natsett Amuinn wrote:
Touval Lysander wrote:
Natsett Amuinn wrote:

If only those damned minorities would just clean up there streets and stop shooting each other, then money would just come flooding in and people would suddenly have jobs that paid well and access to things that the privileged have. If those damned minorities would just stop acting like minorities then they'd have good schools and medical care.

That's the mentality that a lot of you seem to have in regard to issues in null sec.

So you'd prefer a welfare state? Let's tax and **** everybody over so we can clean up your dirty little street?

What I'd do, since I AM genuinely interested in helping you....

GIVE YOU A BROOM!

You're confused.

We're already a welfare state genius.

A nonwelfare state would imply that we were able to provide more for ourselves and be less dependant on the WEALTHY to provide for us.

Oh **** off. You're not dependent on the WEALTHY at all. You're whining that YOU aren't because someone else is doing the work you won't do.

You're not a welfare state, you're a welfare case - a distinct difference.

"I've always been mad, I know I've been mad, like the most of us...very hard to explain why you're mad, even if you're not mad..."

Silk daShocka
Greasy Hair Club
#155 - 2012-10-23 21:25:10 UTC
Quote:

The only way that works is by reducing high sec output. The only people that would be most effected are people who do everything themselves, and I don't think those people should be considered. if you ignore everyone else in the game, then **** you.


So screw over independant manufacturers is what your calling for.

That's great, pretty much the same quality as all the shitposts you've done in this thread.
Natsett Amuinn
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#156 - 2012-10-23 21:26:21 UTC
Touval Lysander wrote:
Natsett Amuinn wrote:
Touval Lysander wrote:
Natsett Amuinn wrote:

If only those damned minorities would just clean up there streets and stop shooting each other, then money would just come flooding in and people would suddenly have jobs that paid well and access to things that the privileged have. If those damned minorities would just stop acting like minorities then they'd have good schools and medical care.

That's the mentality that a lot of you seem to have in regard to issues in null sec.

So you'd prefer a welfare state? Let's tax and **** everybody over so we can clean up your dirty little street?

What I'd do, since I AM genuinely interested in helping you....

GIVE YOU A BROOM!

You're confused.

We're already a welfare state genius.

A nonwelfare state would imply that we were able to provide more for ourselves and be less dependant on the WEALTHY to provide for us.

Oh **** off. You're not dependent on the WEALTHY at all. You're whining that YOU aren't because someone else is doing the work you won't do.

You're not a welfare state, you're a welfare case - a distinct difference.

Yes, you're right. You have a flawless record of posting on things you know about.

I'm going to go reread the thread you started about nerfing null so you can run one man corp PoS's without having to worry about it geting blown up again.

You keep telling people to leave high sec alone while I do that.
Natsett Amuinn
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#157 - 2012-10-23 21:27:55 UTC
Silk daShocka wrote:
Quote:

The only way that works is by reducing high sec output. The only people that would be most effected are people who do everything themselves, and I don't think those people should be considered. if you ignore everyone else in the game, then **** you.


So screw over independant manufacturers is what your calling for.

That's great, pretty much the same quality as all the shitposts you've done in this thread.


You don't balance in a game like this based on whether or not people can self sustain themselves.

And anyoen that's done even a little bit of mining in a barge knows goddamned well that a 20% reduction in refining in high sec isn't going to make it any harder to mine and build your own ships to pvp in. It's a lie to say otherwise.
Touval Lysander
Zero Wine
#158 - 2012-10-23 21:33:25 UTC
Natsett Amuinn wrote:

Then you didn't read my suggestion, which wouldn't hurt high in any way, while providing a "carot" for doing industry in null.

I support BUFFING HIGH SEC to buff null, it only LOOKS like a nerf to people that can't grasp that I want to increse the value of high sec stuff, at the same time increase null value more, but not more than high.

The only way that works is by reducing high sec output. The only people that would be most effected are people who do everything themselves, and I don't think those people should be considered. if you ignore everyone else in the game, then **** you.

wtf??!!

Is "reduction" the new pseudo-buff? The buff you get when you want a nerf. Or is it the nerf you get when you want a buff?

Like Darth (yet another CFC forum warrior) with his "add value to miners by killing them".....

Are we buffing high or nerfing high to get the buff (ot is it a nerf) in null we need?

Is this all Mittani double-baaaa or has everyone taken leave of their senses?

FIX nullsec - don't nerf/buff or buff/nerf anything.

MORE slots, more roids - whatever you need. JF Imports P/L won't be able to compete. Why is this so hard to fathom?

"I've always been mad, I know I've been mad, like the most of us...very hard to explain why you're mad, even if you're not mad..."

Herr Hammer Draken
#159 - 2012-10-23 21:35:41 UTC
Natsett Amuinn wrote:


Null sec should be an option when it comes to industry. It currently isn't. Unless you're looking for pvp there isn't really a worthwhile benefit to choose to live in null over high sec.


The problem can be summed up in one question.

Why would you come here to do industry?



Well there is super caps industry. That is the kind of thing that has a barrier to entry which makes industry work in null.
Perhaps some sort of customs requirement to take goods out of high sec to be sold in low or null. A sort of exit tax that would drive up prices enough to protect null industry from traders under cutting local industry. I am just throwing an idea out there something outside of the box.

Or if CCP has something new up its sleeve. Like T3 mods and limits it to only null sec production. The hook.

Herr Hammer Draken "The Amarr Prophet"

Geligdio Khan
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#160 - 2012-10-23 21:40:42 UTC
Herr Hammer Draken wrote:
Natsett Amuinn wrote:


Null sec should be an option when it comes to industry. It currently isn't. Unless you're looking for pvp there isn't really a worthwhile benefit to choose to live in null over high sec.


The problem can be summed up in one question.

Why would you come here to do industry?



Well there is super caps industry. That is the kind of thing that has a barrier to entry which makes industry work in null.
Perhaps some sort of customs requirement to take goods out of high sec to be sold in low or null. A sort of exit tax that would drive up prices enough to protect null industry from traders under cutting local industry. I am just throwing an idea out there something outside of the box.

Or if CCP has something new up its sleeve. Like T3 mods and limits it to only null sec production. The hook.


Those are cool ideas, like.

Thanks