EVE General Discussion

Oh come on, man, allow a brother some fun at the posting zoo. I mean, just look at how incoherent he's become now, not a single aspect of that last post of his makes even a modicum of sense. :v:

I'm not asking for a real world example of resource denial, there are a bunch that I'm already aware of. Rubber, oil, rare earth, even diamonds in WW2, etc. Generally not accomplished by shooting the resource in question with guns. Baltec posted the example of Iraq lighting oil wells on fire...but that wasn't a very effective military strategy, really. Bit of a red herring.

Not sure why we're dwelling on this aspect of the debate so far. You posted a suggestion, I said I liked it, made my own suggestion on a similar line. The normal response would be for you to say "hey, your suggestion is pretty cool, too, perhaps we should do that instead." or "nah, my suggestion is still better imo, good try though". Instead we have this strange debate about whether anyone has ever blown up metal ore as a large-scale war tactic in military history. While the answer still seems to be no, it's not really important. I definitely now think it was the worst part of my post, which was a post AGREEING WITH YOU and making a SIMILAR SUGGESTION, which you have strangely ignored :/

hopefully we're clear now. If we want to nitpick, *points over there*, look, it's touval, posting long reams of nonsense.

Which exactly what I meant when I said that the only compeition to Goons 0.0 indy is the Goons themselves.

They CAN'T shoot/blockade/stop the supply from highsec to nullsec because it's THEIR OWN PEOPLE doing it. I, as a non-blue, cannot dock at VFK and sell my stuff. I am not the problem.

These guys want to cripple highsec industry to deny THEIR OWN PEOPLE the ability to import.

We're circle-jerking on WHAT to do and no-one has focused on WHY we need to.

SHOOT BLUE IMPORTER - PROFIT. Problem solved.

Can we go now?

That's not resource denial. That''s monopolization.

Like Goons could do with Tech if they wanted to get serious.

Resource denial is where I stop you from producing.

That is exactly what someone whose knowledge stemmed largely from RTS's, with little real-world experience or study, would say.

I quoted your ENTIRE post. All you said in the post that I quoted was semantic arguing over what a word means. That's the same thing that my post did, the only difference being that I was correct, and you were ignorantly wrong. Your definition of resource denial is not the one used in the real world, although it is the one used in Starcraft, due to limitations in allowed actions in that genre of game. You calling me shitpoaster is highly ironic, given that the content and structure of my post was an intentional mirror of yours(except that you have no clue what you are talking about and were incorrect). Your own words condemn you, I have nothing further I need say to you.

So stfu and thanks for coming.

Hey you're almost starting to understand what the problem is, goodness.

I love how Lysander's argument is some kind of inverse groupthink, in that GOONS ARE A GROUP THEREFORE THEIR POINTS ARE INVALID.

Hilariously he's using the same (or at least a very similar) kind of stereotypical, flawed thinking in this reasoning.

ffs Zim, take ya blinkers off!

THEY, not I...

The people you are competing against do not use time to calculate sell price. They don't have to. There is NO COST TO TIME.

I can mine all day. The TIME it takes me has no cost - in ISK - like we do in RL where we need to eat, sleep and rest. We have direct and attributable - and unavoidable - overheads that cost REAL money.

In fact, the whole concept of adding cost to production (which is actually quite stupid in theory) is because you are trying to create a cost where none originally existed and would not need to exist if EVERYBODY added time.

As a serious indy guy sometime back, when margins were being squeezed, the sacrifice was made by devaluing my time because I had no other way to compete. And if you are prepared to devalue time itself, it's an easy argument to equate zero cost to production to justify the sell price. (and I gave you examples of that).

I've never said it's RIGHT, I've said that's how many do it. You will not accept that that is WHY an importer out of highsec can sell at below the cost of the minerals itself.

The seller of the minerals has to accept market value as it stands (created by "no-timers") . His own attributable costs can't be used no matter how hard he protests that it should.

You can rant about the subject as much as you like, until some way can be identified to make time cost for those that ignore it as a cost, you will NEVER win the market war - and it makes all efforts to apply external measures absolutely pointless.

Let's fix 0.0 industry. Completely incapacitate highsec. Remove minerals, everything. Doesn't matter.

The man NOT calculating time to acquire/produce will beat you wherever you are. EVERY TIME.

Stop being so bloody minded about the obvious.

EDIT: "Most of the month mining to keep a POS running". See, now, there's your problem. I only had to do like 20-30 minutes a day - usually while I went off and had lunch. Perhaps you've been doing wrong?

I wish I was a Goon so I could call him a damn pubbie. Sadly I can't bring myself to part with the £10 it would cost me :(