EVE General Discussion

This is a pretentious, pseudo-intellectual whine, as to why it is in a pure industrialist’s best interest to nerf the industrial potential of high sec. Yeah, I know, lol.

I haven’t played the game long, a few months, but I hope that gives me fresh eyes rather than making me a know nothing noob.
The fundamental mechanics of the game, as discussed at fanfest, are the cycle of creation and destruction. Miners mine, manufacturers manufacture, traders trade and PVPers blow stuff up and the cycle continues. The health of this cycle is the health of the game, that is, people are playing a filling all the different roles to make EVE work.

Because of this cycle all the roles in the game need each other, PVPers need industrialists to make ships and weapons for them, the industrialists need the PVPers to blow things up so there is demand for more ships.

Based on the idea of supply and demand if you want the price to rise so you make more money as an industrialist you can either reduce supply or increase demand. Nerfing high sec and causing miners and industrialists to venture out in search of profits causes both. It reduces supply as it is more difficult and risky to make things, it increases demand as there is more PVP because there are more PVP targets.

Now this is the point where most people say “but we want ship prices low so we can afford to PVP”. I don’t think this makes sense. Killing noob ships is no fun because they are cheap. Killing capitals and titans makes the news because they are expensive. I think what PVPers really want is to kill expensive ships.

You could say “give me a more powerful ship and then I can kill more expensive ones” but by making powerful ships cheap the ones you are going to kill become cheaper and it cheapens your kill, ultimately accomplishing nothing. If it took weeks to earn a battlecruiser killing one in a frigate would feel amazing. If you could earn a battlecruiser in five minutes why would you care if you killed one? Would you tell your friends?

I don’t think fundamentally PVPers want to fly big ships, they just want to be able to compete, if T1 frigs were truly viable as solo ships many people would be out there in them as they are fun, I know I would.

I think the price of ships in high sec is too low as it is. If you do the calculations the only way to make a profit manufacturing ships is to have all your industrial skills maxed and then you only make a tiny profit. I looked into making some Rifters and found there was no profit in it. The price rests on its floor, the cost of materials used in the manufacturing. This means supply outstrips demand, what we want is a price with a decent profit margin because the manufacturers can only just make them fast enough to meet demand, this is a real market with real meaning to being a manufacturer.

But why as an industrialist would you want to leave the safe bastion of high sec? It’s perfect, surely?

Ultimately you don’t, you want to be as safe as possible, but you want everyone else to leave. You want other people to have trouble with industry and to get ganked while they mine. That is good for your business; it creates demand and restricts supply. Unfortunately the cost of this is you leaving high sec as well but that is a small price to pay.

I’m AFK mining right now (don’t tell James 315), it’s boring. It’s boring because I know I can’t be attacked so there is no need to watch local, it’s in no one’s interest to lose a gank ship for the two million ISK worth of Plag in my hold. So I can write this article while I mine. I’d much prefer it if I were being paid more to do it and I had to watch local and D-scan for enemies and be in an intel channel to keep safe while I snuck around the pirates, that would be a game, this is just work.

Piracy is one of the most romantic professions in the game, and it is a great selling point for EVE. “Roam the stars and make a living as a marauder”, who wouldn’t want to play that game? However it doesn’t really exist. I define piracy as small fast ships preying on industrials, if you fight war ships I don’t think that counts. There are no industrials outside high sec so there is no piracy. Which is a real shame, as it would be awesome.

If high sec were nerfed and miners and manufacturers moved to low and null it would create so many new professions (all of which would need supplying with ships and modules). Small scale piracy, larger pirate gangs, security crews, system scouts, convoy companies, pirate hunters and toll bridgers (people who camp a gate and charge a fee for free passage).

Industrialists would have to form corps to survive in these more dangerous areas and that is one of the main goals of the game, to make friends and contacts, to be social. I would love to mine in a small team with scouts and guards, coordinating everything we do. Instead there’s no reason to put my retriever in a group, the hold is big and gang link bonuses small, forever alone.

Really if you want high sec made safer and you want to stay there what you are really saying is “I want to deal with people on my terms, not on theirs”, if you want it your way why not play an offline game? If you want people to play with then we’re all gonna have to help each other play a game we like. And really, having a pirate chase your mining barge is helping you, everyone he blows up will buy a new ship made from your materials. Yeah sometimes you get blown up, but you get a good story every time.

if your really that new to the game Shut the hell up. You got no clue what gong on in the game. shh you.....

"I looked into making some Rifters and found there was no profit in it."

Try looking into a ship that's not given away in large quantities to people doing the minnie starter missions for minmatar rep? Just a thought.

TL:DR, force people into null to feed nullsec powerblocks materials. And get told what to do...

Tell you a secret: We manufacturers sell T1 hulls slightly below raw mineral value and we know it.
T1 hulls are not there to make you a profit or grant you a living in luxury.
But for every hull that is bought, the customer also needs modules, ammo and rigs.
T2 modules are pretty much standard in any PvP fitting now.

Let's take a look at the good old Rifter, for example:
I sell Rifter hulls at about 10% loss, but for every hull, the customer also buys 3x 150mm AC II, 1x 1mn MWD II, 1x DCU II and 1x Gyro II. Web, plate, Point and the remaining utility high are usually filled with tech 1 modules, so I won't make much money with those.
With the t2 modules I sell with each Rifter, I am making about 3 Million raw profit per ship - although I sell the hull at 30k loss.

Edit just to point out that I agree that chaos and destruction is good for business and people should stop whining about what fills there wallet in the long run.

No they wouldn't. Level 4 mission loot reprocessing gives every mineral in the game (in smaller amounts).
All you'd do is turn high-sec miners into L4 mission runners (or ice-miners) - and push all ship prices up due to the lower supply of low-ends such as pyerite, mex and iso.
Oh and a large amount of casual players who only high-sec mine with no interest in pvp would un-sub.

Everyone knows 0.0 is stale and low-sec is broken, nerfing high-sec into the ground won't fix those areas of the game though, it'll just lose subs which is the opposite of what CCP needs.

Yes, I play the game because it's enjoyable. Being surrounded my meme spouting neckbeards engaged in some sort of perverse popularity orgy in 0.0 would be unenjoyable.

Oh hello...welcome to the forums!

and you read the whole thing? Wow good job. Since your making sweeping generalizations, I will too. Wow you read the whole thing you must have no life.

Raising installed jobs cost in highsec will only cause the cost to be passed on to the buyer. Now slashing the available installed jobs to 1/10th of current capacity will shift manufacturing elsewhere.