EVE General Discussion

I have recently scanned a whole region of new eden for JBs, CGs and stuff

i have come around exactly three systems with notable industrial activity in there, one had 4 CSAAs, another LOADS of reaction posses and the third one had a large scale ammunition production running

there are so many reasons to not produce in 00, and bad pos and corp management tools are only one of them

1) Not a corp issue, a CCP design issue.
2) 285m for a large, whatever for all the components, 450m/month for fuel, whatever for the cost of shipping in said fuel (or time spent mining it) and the cost of shipping in minerals (or time spent mining it)
3) Oh really, all the hisec guys I know of use stations since they're cheap and hassle-free.
4) So you're trying the age-old fallacy of "my time is free, therefore the POS is free"? Well, that certainly sets a new low for this discussion.
5) I wasn't talking about number of simultaneous jobs, I was talking about number of consecutive items. You can't setup up to 30 days of maelstrom production pr line.
6) Nope, it's a **** design issue.

Now compare all this (and yes, I'm going to include you actually spending time :laffo: mining the ice and doing PI to keep the POS fuelled instead of doing other, more lucrative things or winning at eve), to staying logged out for much longer or making more money doing literally anything else, spending 2k pr maelstrom in manufacturing costs and 1m in import costs (or less if you use your own JF vOv) ... and you'd be literally dumb as all hell to not just build it in hisec and import it and spend the rest of the time doing things which aren't as mindnumbingly boring and unprofitable as ice mining and PI just to keep the towers running.

But hey, pat yourself on the back for doing lots more work than I have to, to achieve exactly the same result, at a higher price!

Zimmy baby. I've refuted the BS argument about indy in 0.0. It CAN be done. It IS done.

It is ALSO done in highsec - by many - EXACTLY the same way - and profitably.

Issues about YOU being trusted in your corp is for YOU to sort and the fact that ALL the people YOU know do it in stations says everything about the the people you know and less about the task.

450m, 500m, 1b isk - whatever. It's monopoly money. How much you lose on a gank? Oh right. NOTHING. It's paid for. How much you lose on CTA's - oh right, nothing. It's paid for. You got plenty of money unless you spend more time tickling little digits in a spreadsheet than just DOING it.

TRY WORKING FOR YOUR ISK LIKE MOST HIGHSEC PEOPLE DO.

And POS costs. 450m a month!!! **** off. PI is passive and a half a day with a couple of mates mining hard will do a month of fuel. What are you paying yourself, 50m isk a minute or you using the NEW interdiction prices for your spreadsheet? lolz.

And "must have" 30 day production line!! What?!??! What are we talking about here, 20 seconds to start a job every couple of days. ffs!!

Your excuses for being a lazy SOB are just that - excuses.

Keep bringing it. If anyone is even remotely interested in this topic now - they can now start to see the BS it always was. Best you stop and save yourself the indignity of looking more stupid.

Whatever, just get yer hand off it.

I for one can't wait till we give POS roles to every spy, publord and J4G.

No, you haven't refuted anything. I haven't said it's impossible to do in a POS, all I've said is that it's vastly less profitable and a lot more work than doing it in hisec and shipping it in, which means that you're being dumb for doing it that way.

I spent 1-2 hours purchasing and hauling minerals, setting up build orders, waited for a while, hauled it all back and put up a courier contract. You spent how long icemining and doing PI just to keep the POS running per month?


So they spent anything from 372k to 1.9m extra in build costs (depending on whether or not you use a small, medium or large) per maelstrom (+ whatever cost the downtime between runs cost you), and I spend 2k pr maelstrom. That means I've got a nice extra margin over them, so I can drive them out of the market easier. vOv


Let's take goonswarm as an example. It's more than 3000 people. If everyone should have their own personal POS to build in, that's more POSes than there are moons in all of deklein (there are 2994 moons in deklein).

Yeah, this scales well.


Amarr large is 14397 isk pr block, caldari is 12423 isk pr block, gallente 15787 isk and minmatar 14494,2 isk. That equates to 414633600, 357782400, 454665600 and 417432960, respectively.


What I say: "you can't setup". What you read: must have. vOv

One of the "null is broken" arguments is that indy MUST be buffed because of station slot shortfall.

It's a false need.

However, if you want to argue

1) Ease of use (lazy)
2) Pathetic difference on margin (cheapskate or a-retentive?)
3) Hand held production (soft)
4) Easymode (soft and lazy)
5) Ice prices quoted at peak of an interdiction (caused by?)
6) 2,994 moons for 3,000 members (what - a PRIVATE POS for EVERYONE given that nearly everyone has multiple alts and what % won't even do production - duh)
7) Can't setup for 30 days. Sure. I can't setup for 50, 60 days w/e at the same time either (like, pick a number)

Then you're correct - I can't argue with you - you're correct.

The problem is iDemand v2.0 - still.

Number of moons in deklein: 2994
Number of people in GSF: 8873
Number of people in TNT: 1267

Total number of moons required if everyone should have their own POS: 10140.

Most people are not interested in having nullsec local removed. ;) Only a few wanna-be-pros do.

No you haven't, all you've proven is that you personally don't understand how a business fucntions and that you personally have wasted HUNDREDS of man hours and probably millions of isk doing a job inefficeintly.


Your way costs more, is slower, is more work intesive. Does it work, yet, but is it inferior in EVERY SINGLE WAY to just building in high sec and shipping things out? Yes, yes it is.


Thats not good buisiness and isn't going to attract people to the profession of 0.0 manufacturing, because the profit margins on builds are already so small that after you factor in all your time, effort, and added resources (unless you consider your time working as 'free' in which case you obviously have no clue about how business works) that come with working out of a pos compared to Empire manufacturing and shipping there literally no money to be made at it.

Not to mention, that unless you were running 40 pos's theres no way you could keep pace with an industrialist working out of Empire who's shippping his goods to 0.0.

You need to remember you're looking at a player base that min/maxes everything, and if there is no profit in it the larger portion of the player base simply can't be bothered with it.

You are absolutely the first person to ever step up and say that 0.0 manufacturing is fine, and I'm sorry to tell you that in this case, when you say the sky is green and everybody else tells you its blue, you happen to be wrong, and not just "special".

The same people that manipulated FW for trillions of ISK and coincidentally happen to be some of the richest players in Eve: Spreadsheets Online have run the numbers on nullsec versus highsec production and come to the conclusion that highsec production is, and this is a scientifically reproducible number derived from a simple set of calculations, "bazillions of times better" than nullsec for manufacturing.