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Okay CCP, it's time. Acknowledge the legitimacy of The New Order, James 315, and bumping.

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Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#281 - 2012-10-29 01:10:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Jonah Gravenstein
NEONOVUS, I would check your facts before you spew crap like that, I know of one maybe two that are in NPC corps, the rest are in player corps and judging by the corps that they're members of, I would guess that they'd love you to shoot at them.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack
Johan Civire
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#282 - 2012-10-29 01:10:57 UTC
Holy **** is this post even for real? or have i smoking the wrong stuff agan ....
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#283 - 2012-10-29 01:25:31 UTC
Onyxius Leone DeSilva wrote:
Mallak Azaria wrote:

Firstly, miners can fight back. They choose not to.

Last time I looked, barges and exhumers had no weapons, hence they CANNOT fight back. Hell. they can't even warp away if they're bumped out of alignment, so they can't escape the bumpers either.
If their drones attack the bumper, they get Concordokkened.


Last time I looked, nobody forced you to use a mining barge.

Even if they had...

Nobody forced you to mine sitting still rather than being aligned away (ready to warp as soon as a bump/gank ship approached).

Even if they had...

Nobody's stopped you from logging off for a moment and using the ewarp to help you get away from the bumper.

Even if they had...

Nobody's stopped you from having friends scram/web the bumper in cheap ships to allow you to escape.

Even if they had... (i.e. complaints about CONCORD)

Nobody's forcing you to play in areas where aggressing someone comes with an immediate cost.




Stop pretending there's any reason aside from your choices that you're "helpless" to stop people bothering you.

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#284 - 2012-10-29 01:30:24 UTC
NEONOVUS wrote:

Extortion and greifing/harassment have a zero difference line.
It is just what you call it.
Also miners can only fight against a minority, remember most of these bumpers jump to npc corp.
And until a majority are in THE NEW ORDER INC. it can not be said that miners can fight back.


Extortion is perfectly legal in EVE:Online.
So is Scamming, Theft, Piracy, Lieing, Spying, Assassination, and so on.

You can fight against every single bumper.

2 Ships.
Vigil + MWD + Scram + Webs
Stabber + MWD + Whatever

Scram/Web the bumper, Bump them away.

Or, Scram/Web the bumper, Shoot them in the face with Catalysts or Tornadoes.

You just can't fight against them via wardecs (if you'd like wardecs fixed so you can dec them, I'm sure they'll help you push CCP to fix corp hopping and the use of NPC corps to escape wardecs Pirate).

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#285 - 2012-10-29 01:46:21 UTC
RubyPorto wrote:
You just can't fight against them via wardecs (if you'd like wardecs fixed so you can dec them, I'm sure they'll help you push CCP to fix corp hopping and the use of NPC corps to escape wardecs Pirate).

Yes, yes.. this would be hilarious.

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
#286 - 2012-10-29 05:14:01 UTC
RubyPorto wrote:


Extortion is perfectly legal in EVE:Online.
So is Scamming, Theft, Piracy, Lieing, Spying, Assassination, and so on.

You can fight against every single bumper.

2 Ships.
Vigil + MWD + Scram + Webs
Stabber + MWD + Whatever

Scram/Web the bumper, Bump them away.

Or, Scram/Web the bumper, Shoot them in the face with Catalysts or Tornadoes.

You just can't fight against them via wardecs (if you'd like wardecs fixed so you can dec them, I'm sure they'll help you push CCP to fix corp hopping and the use of NPC corps to escape wardecs Pirate).


I'm pretty sure the Scram/Web/Shooting gets you concordokkened. And happens to result in the bumper winning at the same time, since they will get kill rights on you come Retribution, to activate at their leisure to then kill your Hulk/Mack/Skiff with no Concordokken happening to protect you. And also means you have stopped mining to go and get another ship to bump them with.
All of which means Bumpers win.

There is no way for a miner to win against the Bumping tactic.

So my advice to miners. HTFU. Take the bumping. Use Orbit to drag you back into range of your roids when possible. Use a prop mod & pulse it on a Exhumer (Barges lack the slots), Warp to a safe, then to the other side of the belt. Warp to a different belt. But DO NOT pay the bumpers. Paying the bumpers simply encourages them. Even if you technically 'loose' money by not paying, it only makes sure they will keep going if you do pay.
Unless you are totally afk, it's not going to ruin your day, it's only going to cost you a few minutes of mining, and if they keep singling you out in the middle of a crowd of 200 miners for hours/days, then complain about directed harrassment. Till they spend days just bumping you and not even letting you warp out/back to station, it's just a business scam they are trying to run.
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#287 - 2012-10-29 12:22:11 UTC
Nevyn Auscent wrote:
I'm pretty sure the Scram/Web/Shooting gets you concordokkened. And happens to result in the bumper winning at the same time, since they will get kill rights on you come Retribution, to activate at their leisure to then kill your Hulk/Mack/Skiff with no Concordokken happening to protect you. And also means you have stopped mining to go and get another ship to bump them with.
All of which means Bumpers win.


It takes all of 5 minutes to train an alt to fly a vigil with a scram and web. Where did I say you used your mining character to scarm/web? (Pro-Tip, if you've already warped away to reship, you don't need to scram/web the bumper to escape cause you have already escaped.)

Yes, the Retribution Killright system is idiotic. No new news there. Glad you noticed.


Quote:
There is no way for a miner to win against the Bumping tactic.

So my advice to miners. HTFU. Take the bumping. Use Orbit to drag you back into range of your roids when possible. Use a prop mod & pulse it on a Exhumer (Barges lack the slots), Warp to a safe, then to the other side of the belt. Warp to a different belt. But DO NOT pay the bumpers. Paying the bumpers simply encourages them. Even if you technically 'loose' money by not paying, it only makes sure they will keep going if you do pay.
Unless you are totally afk, it's not going to ruin your day, it's only going to cost you a few minutes of mining, and if they keep singling you out in the middle of a crowd of 200 miners for hours/days, then complain about directed harrassment. Till they spend days just bumping you and not even letting you warp out/back to station, it's just a business scam they are trying to run.


Except for mining aligned, moving to somewhere without immediate costs to aggression, having alts disrupt the bumping operation, etc. etc.

Bumping is the emergent counter to the massive EHP buff you got a few months ago which caused Suicide Ganking untanked, AFK mining ships to become unprofitable. Before that, you could tank your ship and largely avoid being bothered. Now, you can't because the only sustainable way to bother you is through bumping.

http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Griefing
Quote:
Bump griefing

Bumping refers to ramming your ship into another pilot's in order to throw that ship out of alignment or to push it away from docking or jumping range. This can be used effectively as a combat tactic to stop an opponent from fleeing, but it can also be used simply to grief someone to hell. Ramming another player's ship is not considered to be in violation of the rules and policies of EVE Online.


Don't instruct people to petition other players for legitimate gameplay. It puts you on the wrong side of the TOS.
http://community.eveonline.com/pnp/terms.asp
Quote:
You may not abuse, harass or threaten another player or authorized representative of CCP, including customer service personnel and volunteers. This includes, but is not limited to: petitioning with false information in an attempt to gain from it or have someone else suffer from it

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#288 - 2012-10-29 12:25:54 UTC
That's what we like to see, a seasoned player correcting misconceptions and offering sound advice 07 Ruby

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack
Capt Lynch
Strategic Exploration and Development Corp
Silent Company
#289 - 2012-11-04 13:47:07 UTC
I would like a little ratification on directed Harassment.

Does that include singling out a player by threatening the corp he is in with wardecs till he is kicked every single time he joins a corp or spreading false rumors on the web to get him blacklisted by half of the game community and otherwise making his gaming time on EVE a nightmare?
Reaver Glitterstim
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#290 - 2012-11-04 14:15:59 UTC
We keep telling them it's legitimate gameplay, CCP keeps telling them, but they don't listen. There's not a lot you can do.

One idea, however, could be a tutorial mission in which an NPC "griefs" the player by interfering with their mission and making it impossible to "complete" it. Upon returning to Aura, she'll be unimpressed and will refuse mission reward and standings bonus, but will let the player continue with the chain anyway. She'll also say "but this is the last time I let something like this slide. And don't expect other agents to be as kind as I." That would be pretty cool actually, come to think of it.

FT Diomedes: "Reaver, sometimes I wonder what you are thinking when you sit down to post."

Frostys Virpio: "We have to give it to him that he does put more effort than the vast majority in his idea but damn does it sometime come out of nowhere."
Benny Ohu
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#291 - 2012-11-04 14:16:17 UTC
Capt Lynch wrote:
I would like a little ratification on directed Harassment.

Does that include singling out a player by threatening the corp he is in with wardecs till he is kicked every single time he joins a corp or spreading false rumors on the web to get him blacklisted by half of the game community and otherwise making his gaming time on EVE a nightmare?
I doubt your appearance on minerbumping.com has you blacklisted by half the game community. I think you know this is a question better asked of a game master, and I think your question implies the New Order (though not mentioned specifically) has been involved in your being kicked out of more corps than you have - one.

Please don't speak such unfair and vile insinuations of such a perfectly legitimate and charitable institution as the New Order of Highsec.
Capt Lynch
Strategic Exploration and Development Corp
Silent Company
#292 - 2012-11-04 14:26:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Capt Lynch
Benny Ohu wrote:
Capt Lynch wrote:
I would like a little ratification on directed Harassment.

Does that include singling out a player by threatening the corp he is in with wardecs till he is kicked every single time he joins a corp or spreading false rumors on the web to get him blacklisted by half of the game community and otherwise making his gaming time on EVE a nightmare?
I doubt your appearance on minerbumping.com has you blacklisted by half the game community. I think you know this is a question better asked of a game master, and I think your question implies the New Order (though not mentioned specifically) has been involved in your being kicked out of more corps than you have - one.

Please don't speak such unfair and vile insinuations of such a perfectly legitimate and charitable institution as the New Order of Highsec.


Then why is every corp I apply telling me to go for one of two reasons

Number 1: They don;t want to get on your bosses bad side

Number 2: They don;t want a 'Scumbag Corp Thief in their corp'

I have at least three evemails over the last week telling me to quit eve 'for my own good'

Oh...and go away please, benny...I;m not talking to the New order...I;m talking to people who actually play the game and know the definition of 'directed harassment'
Moe Doobie
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#293 - 2012-11-04 14:39:03 UTC


I'd like to know CCPs position on this James 315 guy constantly making forum alts to clutter up the forums with threads to cry for attention to his "cause".

Seriously.
Benny Ohu
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#294 - 2012-11-04 15:14:24 UTC
Capt Lynch wrote:
I;m not talking to the New order...I;m talking to people who actually play the game and know the definition of 'directed harassment'

You are posting in a thread begun by an esteemed Agent of the New Order of Highsec, some of the most experienced and avid players of EVE Online, paragons of knowledge and virtue. Not a truth they do not comprehend, never a deceit pass their lips.

Nevertheless this thread is about encouraging CCP to more fully recognise the achievements and emergent gameplay the New Order is providing, and is not an entirely suitable place to ask your question as it is a bit off-topic and unlikely to be seen. Perhaps you should start your own thread?
Capt Lynch
Strategic Exploration and Development Corp
Silent Company
#295 - 2012-11-04 15:20:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Capt Lynch
Benny Ohu wrote:
Capt Lynch wrote:
I;m not talking to the New order...I;m talking to people who actually play the game and know the definition of 'directed harassment'

You are posting in a thread begun by an esteemed Agent of the New Order of Highsec, some of the most experienced and avid players of EVE Online, paragons of knowledge and virtue. Not a truth they do not comprehend, never a deceit pass their lips.

Nevertheless this thread is about encouraging CCP to more fully recognise the achievements and emergent gameplay the New Order is providing, and is not an entirely suitable place to ask your question as it is a bit off-topic and unlikely to be seen. Perhaps you should start your own thread?


I just want the harassment to end so I can join a corp without the worry that said corp will be attacked.
Benny Ohu
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#296 - 2012-11-04 15:26:18 UTC
My name is Benny. Not James. Straight
Natasha Liao
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#297 - 2012-11-04 15:52:57 UTC
Onyxius Leone DeSilva wrote:
His interests lie in lining his wallet and he's found the perfect way to do it which requires no work or risk, the perfect ship targets who cannot fight back.
He's running an extortion business pure and simple.

Ransoming a players ship is a form of 'extortion' and is also a time honored and 'valid' play style. Damn...
Sometimes after the player pays the ransom their ship still gets blown up. Also 'valid'. Double damn...

You're using logic on an internet discussion forum. A rookie mistake, but one you'll soon learn to avoid. -Destiny Corrupted
James 315
Experimental Fun Times Corp RELOADED
CODE.
#298 - 2012-11-04 15:53:10 UTC
Capt Lynch wrote:
Then why is every corp I apply telling me to go for one of two reasons

Number 1: They don;t want to get on your bosses bad side

Number 2: They don;t want a 'Scumbag Corp Thief in their corp'

I have at least three evemails over the last week telling me to quit eve 'for my own good'

Oh...and go away please, benny...I;m not talking to the New order...I;m talking to people who actually play the game and know the definition of 'directed harassment'

Capt Lynch, cool your jets.

No one is telling you to quit EVE. If they do, forward me the EVEmail so I can deal with them. Otherwise I must assume you are going back to your old tricks and conducting an "experiment" with the truth. No more lies, please.

As I said before, you are always welcome to join the New Order and become a miner-bumper if you cannot find a corporation that suits you. Right now it seems we're the best friends you've got left in this game. Don't burn any more bridges.

MinerBumping.com
Jimmy 426
Doomheim
#299 - 2012-11-04 16:02:32 UTC
It's 'rock' blocking, mates! Today your ore, tomorrow your *****. Resist, resist!
Lin-Young Borovskova
Doomheim
#300 - 2012-11-04 16:10:27 UTC
Nevyn Auscent wrote:
RubyPorto wrote:


Extortion is perfectly legal in EVE:Online.
So is Scamming, Theft, Piracy, Lieing, Spying, Assassination, and so on.

You can fight against every single bumper.

2 Ships.
Vigil + MWD + Scram + Webs
Stabber + MWD + Whatever

Scram/Web the bumper, Bump them away.

Or, Scram/Web the bumper, Shoot them in the face with Catalysts or Tornadoes.

You just can't fight against them via wardecs (if you'd like wardecs fixed so you can dec them, I'm sure they'll help you push CCP to fix corp hopping and the use of NPC corps to escape wardecs Pirate).


I'm pretty sure the Scram/Web/Shooting gets you concordokkened. And happens to result in the bumper winning at the same time, since they will get kill rights on you come Retribution, to activate at their leisure to then kill your Hulk/Mack/Skiff with no Concordokken happening to protect you. And also means you have stopped mining to go and get another ship to bump them with.
All of which means Bumpers win.

There is no way for a miner to win against the Bumping tactic.

So my advice to miners. HTFU. Take the bumping. Use Orbit to drag you back into range of your roids when possible. Use a prop mod & pulse it on a Exhumer (Barges lack the slots), Warp to a safe, then to the other side of the belt. Warp to a different belt. But DO NOT pay the bumpers. Paying the bumpers simply encourages them. Even if you technically 'loose' money by not paying, it only makes sure they will keep going if you do pay.
Unless you are totally afk, it's not going to ruin your day, it's only going to cost you a few minutes of mining, and if they keep singling you out in the middle of a crowd of 200 miners for hours/days, then complain about directed harrassment. Till they spend days just bumping you and not even letting you warp out/back to station, it's just a business scam they are trying to run.



After 4th December just but a nice bounty on their head so they get gank as much as possible with NPC corp toons.

Ho wait...

brb