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The centre of EVE

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Author
Akira Menoko
Stratotech Industries
Intrepid Crossing
#21 - 2012-10-18 18:31:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Akira Menoko
Wouldn't a worst case brute force calculation be like 5000! (5000 factorial, i.e. 5000 * 4999 * 4998 * ... * 1) which is around 4x10^16325? Since you calculate the number of jumps from one system to each other system, then number of jumps from the second system to each other system except the first one (because you've already done it), so on and so forth until you've run through every system.

Applying the graph theory stuff to the problem would make it a lot more solvable than brute forcing your way through it. So it'd be interesting to hear how the A* pathfinding works for this problem and how many calculations it would take since I don't know how to calculate that. I still suspect it'd be pretty heinous.
Solstice Project
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#22 - 2012-10-18 18:40:48 UTC
Try this A* beginners tutorial: http://www.policyalmanac.org/games/aStarTutorial.htm

Enjoy.
Chribba
Otherworld Enterprises
Otherworld Empire
#23 - 2012-10-18 18:55:28 UTC
Route overflow.

★★★ Secure 3rd party service ★★★

Visit my in-game channel 'Holy Veldspar'

Twitter @ChribbaVeldspar

Abdiel Kavash
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#24 - 2012-10-18 19:10:56 UTC
Akira Menoko wrote:
Wouldn't a worst case brute force calculation be like 5000! (5000 factorial, i.e. 5000 * 4999 * 4998 * ... * 1) which is around 4x10^16325? Since you calculate the number of jumps from one system to each other system, then number of jumps from the second system to each other system except the first one (because you've already done it), so on and so forth until you've run through every system.

Applying the graph theory stuff to the problem would make it a lot more solvable than brute forcing your way through it. So it'd be interesting to hear how the A* pathfinding works for this problem and how many calculations it would take since I don't know how to calculate that. I still suspect it'd be pretty heinous.


Nope.
Val'Dore
PlanetCorp InterStellar
#25 - 2012-10-18 19:16:08 UTC
I don't know what it is now, but it used to be Yulai.

Star Jump Drive A new way to traverse the galaxy.

I invented Tiericide

Aziesta
Dark Tech Inc
#26 - 2012-10-18 19:21:31 UTC
I've noticed Sinq Liason (sp?) region is darn near the center of the map. I'd try those systems first.
David Campbell
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#27 - 2012-10-18 19:29:34 UTC
Actually, in this case gate distribution is more important than mere geography.
On the other hand, since you have to start somewhere, SQ is as good a bet as any.
Solstice Project
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#28 - 2012-10-18 19:36:16 UTC
David Campbell wrote:
Actually, in this case gate distribution is more important than mere geography.
On the other hand, since you have to start somewhere, SQ is as good a bet as any.

Why ?

It seems extremely unlikely that systems closer to the border of the galaxy
are any more "central" than systems closer to the center of the galaxy ...

Tbh, assuming that every region has the same possibility of containing the "central" system
seems pretty much wrong to me ...
Ifly Uwalk
Perkone
Caldari State
#29 - 2012-10-18 19:37:26 UTC
Destination SkillQueue wrote:
Kaaputenen

This tbh.

iirc there was a thread on the old forums years ago where someone actually figured it out. Unfortunately my quick look around eve-search was unfruitful; maybe Chribba can dig something up.
Kopfy
#30 - 2012-10-18 19:51:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Kopfy
Abdiel Kavash
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#31 - 2012-10-18 20:08:43 UTC  |  Edited by: Abdiel Kavash
The radius of the EVE cluster is 56. The center is Lansez (Khanid). In layman's terms, any system in EVE is reachable within 56 jumps from Lansez, and this is minimal such number.

The system with the minimum average distance to all other systems is Kaaputenen (The Citadel). The average distance is 26.32 jumps.

The system with the minimum sum of square distances to all other systems is Otosela (The Forge). (If you don't know why this is important, feel free to ignore this fact.)

The furthest two systems in EVE are 99 jumps apart. It's 373Z-7 (Stain) and any one of SVB-RE, BU-IU4, or 3KNA-N (all three in Branch).



All data is based on the Inferno 1.2 static data dump, counting only space reachable by gates (no Jove, no wormholes). I now have a full matrix of system to system distances, if anyone wants any other facts.
Akira Menoko
Stratotech Industries
Intrepid Crossing
#32 - 2012-10-18 20:51:56 UTC
Abdiel Kavash wrote:
Akira Menoko wrote:
Wouldn't a worst case brute force calculation be like 5000! (5000 factorial, i.e. 5000 * 4999 * 4998 * ... * 1) which is around 4x10^16325? Since you calculate the number of jumps from one system to each other system, then number of jumps from the second system to each other system except the first one (because you've already done it), so on and so forth until you've run through every system.

Applying the graph theory stuff to the problem would make it a lot more solvable than brute forcing your way through it. So it'd be interesting to hear how the A* pathfinding works for this problem and how many calculations it would take since I don't know how to calculate that. I still suspect it'd be pretty heinous.


Nope.


So browsing through that wikipedia article....

Quote:
In computer science, the Floyd–Warshall algorithm (also known as Floyd's algorithm, Roy–Warshall algorithm, Roy–Floyd algorithm, or the WFI algorithm) is a graph analysis algorithm for finding shortest paths in a weighted graph


...is why I mentioned applying "graph theory stuff" to the problem makes it more solvable. The 5000! is the worst case, calculating everything without using an algorithm to do it efficiently.
Skippermonkey
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#33 - 2012-10-18 23:37:09 UTC
OK

So who else it happy with Kaaputenen being renamed Bacon?

COME AT ME BRO

I'LL JUST BE DOCKED IN THIS STATION

Wacktopia
State War Academy
Caldari State
#34 - 2012-10-19 00:32:10 UTC
I am the centre of EVE. In every direction from me there is infinity. There is equal distance in every direction. Ergo I am the centre.

Welcome to the centre. Please wipe your feet.

Kitchen sink? Seriousy, get your ship together -  Fleet-Up.com

Nanatoa
#35 - 2012-10-19 00:38:13 UTC
All this thread for a question which was answered (correctly!) in the first reply

"Stay the course, we have done this many times before." - (CCP) Hilmar, June 2011

Thor Kerrigan
Guardians of Asceticism
#36 - 2012-10-19 06:32:34 UTC
Nanatoa wrote:
All this thread for a question which was answered (correctly!) in the first reply

\
You can never get enough bacon
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
#37 - 2012-10-19 08:46:24 UTC
If we are going with jumps, that one thing, but physical distance is another.

The actual "Center of Gravity" of the universe if we flat-plotted all of the stars on a XY grid, might not even be a system.


The roll players did something that might provide a clue. In attempting to find out exactly where wormhole space was, they used a trick (nerfed since that time) of setting up several POSes and then hitting the wormhole systems and getting a distance in light years reading from each POS to triangulate an actual distance that W space systems were from known space. The goal was to actually map W space.


I suppose that such a technique might work in finding that absolute center.

I think "absolute center" would refer to the geometric center and will differ from a center determined by the number of jumps to all outer points by average.

Beyond this, I'm not touching the math with a borrowed 10' pole.


Bring back DEEEEP Space!

Alice Saki
Nocturnal Romance
Cynosural Field Theory.
#38 - 2012-10-19 08:48:25 UTC
Sticky this thread.

FREEZE! Drop the LIKES AND WALK AWAY! - Currenly rebuilding gaming machine, I will Return.

Bernie Nator
Habitual Euthanasia
Pandemic Legion
#39 - 2012-10-19 08:53:59 UTC
I think the actual center of the eve cluster is the point of no return. Its not a system, bit if you look on the starmap it does pop up in the relative center. I only noticed it because my text was all wonky.
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#40 - 2012-10-19 10:27:57 UTC
I heard the word bacon and then I came to investigate.
And then I came.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)

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