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What is the real problem people have with High Sec?

Author
Touval Lysander
Zero Wine
#421 - 2012-10-21 00:09:29 UTC
Vanyr Andrard wrote:
Touval Lysander wrote:
Lord Zim wrote:
Touval Lysander wrote:
Karrl Tian wrote:

Wasn't calling null/low players assholes per se

Firstly, the nullseccers IN highsec are.

Why? What makes me an automatic ******* because I'm making isk in hisec?

I'll nutshell it for you.

Nullsec whiners want the benefits of highsec in nullsec with the playstyle of nullsec.

But they want highsec to have the playstyle of nullsec without the benefits of highsec.

Which group you in?

Lemme guess - you're BOTH.

You're playing in highsec calling for highsec to be like nullsec and claiming you're in highsec because nullsec is not as good as highsec.

Confused? You should be. You've created your own circle-jerk.


Every single sentence of your post is just random noise. You couldn't provide evidence for even one of them, if challenged.

Challenge? Evidence?

Read the fn forums.

"I've always been mad, I know I've been mad, like the most of us...very hard to explain why you're mad, even if you're not mad..."

Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#422 - 2012-10-21 00:09:43 UTC
Touval Lysander wrote:
Lord Zim wrote:
Touval Lysander wrote:
Karrl Tian wrote:

Wasn't calling null/low players assholes per se

Firstly, the nullseccers IN highsec are.

Why? What makes me an automatic ******* because I'm making isk in hisec?

I'll nutshell it for you.

Nullsec whiners want the benefits of highsec in nullsec with the playstyle of nullsec.

But they want highsec to have the playstyle of nullsec without the benefits of highsec.

Which group you in?

Lemme guess - you're BOTH.

You're playing in highsec calling for highsec to be like nullsec and claiming you're in highsec because nullsec is not as good as highsec.

Confused? You should be. You've created your own circle-jerk.

So what you're saying is, you've got absolutely nothing to back up your accusation with, and will happily try to disguise that by posting gibberish.

pinkdeath Alar wrote:
move all l4 to low are null and watch nothing happen lol they will just find somthing else to do few months later you be like nerf
l3

Let's pretend L4s were moved to low or nullsec. Why should we then demand L3s to be nerfed? Are they even remotely close to competing with nullsec for ratting/anomrunning/whateverthefuck?

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat

Vanyr Andrard
VacuumTube
#423 - 2012-10-21 00:22:27 UTC
Touval Lysander wrote:

Challenge? Evidence?

Read the fn forums.


Translation: you admit you're making everything up. Cool.
Touval Lysander
Zero Wine
#424 - 2012-10-21 00:25:36 UTC
pinkdeath Alar wrote:
move all l4 to low are null and watch nothing happen lol they will just find somthing else to do few months later you be like nerf
l3

Exactly.

l5's cough nearly twice the value and are readily available from 0.0 NPC and lowsec systems but it's "too hard" because you can hardly undock some days. If you shift L4, same will occur and just **** off a huge number of highsec dwellers.

Let's gface it, 0.0 missions/anoms/sigs/belts etc. pay handsomely - the reason highsec iskgen is occurring -even by by nullseccers- is because even they like the idea they can do them in relative PEACE.

They do NOT want to die in their own pimped PvE fits.

For truth, half these tough guy nullseccers log/clone back to their 0.0 chars on CTA's and fly SRP ships with 0 risk and have the audacity to say highseccers are carebears.

They post as 0.0 chars when they're actually highsec indy/missioners!

Apparently posting on a highsec char means you have no idea and are a pubbie/bear whatever but posting on a 0.0 char means you are, by default, an expert?

Laughable, simply laughable. Roll



"I've always been mad, I know I've been mad, like the most of us...very hard to explain why you're mad, even if you're not mad..."

pinkdeath Alar
Doomheim
#425 - 2012-10-21 00:28:04 UTC
you miss the point the player you are trying to reason with they are risk adverse trying reach them to expand there game play
and get them to try all of the game is going to be difficult at best is all i am saying
Touval Lysander
Zero Wine
#426 - 2012-10-21 00:28:05 UTC
Vanyr Andrard wrote:
Touval Lysander wrote:

Challenge? Evidence?

Read the fn forums.


Translation: you admit you're making everything up. Cool.

Confirming: You're incapable of reading in the short term and recognisizing a holistic view over a longer period of time.

Which 50c forum alt are you?

"I've always been mad, I know I've been mad, like the most of us...very hard to explain why you're mad, even if you're not mad..."

Vanyr Andrard
VacuumTube
#427 - 2012-10-21 00:31:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Vanyr Andrard
Touval Lysander wrote:
Vanyr Andrard wrote:
Touval Lysander wrote:

Challenge? Evidence?

Read the fn forums.


Translation: you admit you're making everything up. Cool.

Confirming: You're incapable of reading in the short term and recognisizing a holistic view over a longer period of time.

Which 50c forum alt are you?


0/10 Troll too general, no personal touch.

Also, accusing someone else of being illiterate while using the 'word' 'recognisizing'--nice.
Touval Lysander
Zero Wine
#428 - 2012-10-21 00:32:06 UTC
Lord Zim wrote:
Touval Lysander wrote:
Lord Zim wrote:
Touval Lysander wrote:
Karrl Tian wrote:

Wasn't calling null/low players assholes per se

Firstly, the nullseccers IN highsec are.

Why? What makes me an automatic ******* because I'm making isk in hisec?

I'll nutshell it for you.

Nullsec whiners want the benefits of highsec in nullsec with the playstyle of nullsec.

But they want highsec to have the playstyle of nullsec without the benefits of highsec.

Which group you in?

Lemme guess - you're BOTH.

You're playing in highsec calling for highsec to be like nullsec and claiming you're in highsec because nullsec is not as good as highsec.

Confused? You should be. You've created your own circle-jerk.

So what you're saying is, you've got absolutely nothing to back up your accusation with, and will happily try to disguise that by posting gibberish.

So what you're saying is you have no idea what I said and have no counter.

Exactly.

QFT: Confused? You should be.

Post on your HIGHSEC indy/missioner char and stop HIDING coward. I want to come say hello on my 0.0 char.

"I've always been mad, I know I've been mad, like the most of us...very hard to explain why you're mad, even if you're not mad..."

Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#429 - 2012-10-21 00:46:14 UTC
Touval Lysander wrote:
So what you're saying is you have no idea what I said and have no counter.

It's hard to understand what the **** you're saying when what you're saying makes no sense. Let's just take a look at your last line:

Touval Lysander wrote:
Nullsec whiners want the benefits of highsec in nullsec with the playstyle of nullsec.

Which person in nullsec wants "the benefits of hisec in nullsec"? What are the "benefits of hisec" we're supposed to want "in nullsec"? Concord?

Touval Lysander wrote:
But they want highsec to have the playstyle of nullsec without the benefits of highsec

Hisec to have the playstyle of nullsec? So what, we want hisec to stop having concord? Funny, what I've seen in this thread has mostly been "buff null" and "make a few minor changes to hisec".

Touval Lysander wrote:
Post on your HIGHSEC indy/missioner char and stop HIDING coward. I want to come say hello on my 0.0 char.

Aww poor you, can't take the heat on the forums so you want to try to take it out on my hisec char.

I usually stay around Jita. Happy hunting.

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat

Touval Lysander
Zero Wine
#430 - 2012-10-21 00:54:41 UTC
Lord Zim wrote:

Touval Lysander wrote:
Post on your HIGHSEC indy/missioner char and stop HIDING coward. I want to come say hello on my 0.0 char.

Aww poor you, can't take the heat on the forums so you want to try to take it out on my hisec char.

Can't take the heat on the forums so you hide behind a blueball char.

Quote:

I usually stay around Jita.

Docked.

"I've always been mad, I know I've been mad, like the most of us...very hard to explain why you're mad, even if you're not mad..."

Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#431 - 2012-10-21 00:57:51 UTC
Touval Lysander wrote:
Docked.

Nope, I fly around rather often. In fact, I'm going to undock right now to go fix my PI factory planets, then I'm going to go back to jita and pick up some minerals and mods to go build some catalysts for a ~project~.

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat

Touval Lysander
Zero Wine
#432 - 2012-10-21 01:08:41 UTC
Lord Zim wrote:
Touval Lysander wrote:
Docked.

Nope, I fly around rather often. In fact, I'm going to undock right now to go fix my PI factory planets, then I'm going to go back to jita and pick up some minerals and mods to go build some catalysts for a ~project~.

lol. just lol.

Blueball tough guys massacre unarmed miners. News at 10

Get yer hand off it. Roll

"I've always been mad, I know I've been mad, like the most of us...very hard to explain why you're mad, even if you're not mad..."

Sheynan
Lighting the blight
#433 - 2012-10-21 01:16:22 UTC
Most likely Touval Lysander is the real problem people have with highsec.



Anyway CCP should raise industry costs in highsec and also distribute a higher amount of standard LPs (to FW, Incursions, possibly more). Both to balance out the highest earning professions in highsec.
Touval Lysander
Zero Wine
#434 - 2012-10-21 01:59:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Touval Lysander
Sheynan wrote:
Most likely Touval Lysander is the real problem people have with highsec.

Touval Lysander doesn't have a problem with highsec except for the people who don't live in highsec telling highsec how they should go about their business. That's the problem people who do not live in highsec have with Touval Lysander.

Quote:

Anyway CCP should raise industry costs in highsec and also distribute a higher amount of standard LPs (to FW, Incursions, possibly more). Both to balance out the highest earning professions in highsec.

You could quadruple industry costs in highsec stations and it will just make people use POS's which have ZERO NPC cost (except for obvious corp fees). Not one single 0.0 numbnut has even thought of this.

The problem is NOT the "cheapness" of highsec indy preventing 0.0 industry. In fact it's CHEAPER to do indy at a POS in 0.0. Yet another 0.0 numbnut oversight.

FW is essentially lowsec and Incursions also occur in 0.0. Yet another 0.0 numbnut oversight.

And where are the L5's, multi-spawn 1m+ BS anoms, 10/10 sigs etc. that are VASTLY superior in isk/hr? Another 0.0 numbnut oversight?

Keep puffing.

"I've always been mad, I know I've been mad, like the most of us...very hard to explain why you're mad, even if you're not mad..."

Nicolo da'Vicenza
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#435 - 2012-10-21 02:04:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Nicolo da'Vicenza
Touval Lysander wrote:

Quote:

Anyway CCP should raise industry costs in highsec and also distribute a higher amount of standard LPs (to FW, Incursions, possibly more). Both to balance out the highest earning professions in highsec.

You could quadruple industry costs in highsec stations and it will just make people use POS's which have ZERO NPC cost. Not one single 0.0 numbnut has even thought of this.

Actually I've posted about this on this thread and several others. Remove all form of wardec evasion when it comes to attacking POSs, and possibly remove large-sized POSs from highsec altogether. Perhaps you've read one of them and later thought you originated the idea.

hth
Touval Lysander
Zero Wine
#436 - 2012-10-21 02:06:49 UTC  |  Edited by: Touval Lysander
Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:
Touval Lysander wrote:

Quote:

Anyway CCP should raise industry costs in highsec and also distribute a higher amount of standard LPs (to FW, Incursions, possibly more). Both to balance out the highest earning professions in highsec.

You could quadruple industry costs in highsec stations and it will just make people use POS's which have ZERO NPC cost. Not one single 0.0 numbnut has even thought of this.

Actually I posted about this on this thread and several others. Remove all form of wardec evasion when it comes to attacking POSs.

hth

Totally agree here and have posted same. Remove NPC corping while we're at it too.

EDIT: In fact I've also said that ALL production POS's everywhere should be far more vulnerable. Idea poo-poo'd on self-preservation mode - you included.

In fact - it was the one of the reasons I entertained the idea of removing timers on POS's and making production POS's one-shotable -

1) The 24hr wardec period is of no-consequence to a highsec POS owner because he can dismantle. Remove the 24hr period - war declarations are usually made JUST BEFORE the first shot is fired - make it so.

2) If you are off on TZ (asleep) - or war'decced - turn your POS into max defense so it HURTS the protaganists but production is stopped.

Awesome tactical and strategic benefits for ALL parties if same rule - ALL sectors.

But - hey. Bad idea apparently.

"I've always been mad, I know I've been mad, like the most of us...very hard to explain why you're mad, even if you're not mad..."

Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#437 - 2012-10-21 02:46:47 UTC
Touval Lysander wrote:
You could quadruple industry costs in highsec stations and it will just make people use POS's which have ZERO NPC cost. Not one single 0.0 numbnut has even thought of this.

The problem is NOT the "cheapness" of highsec indy preventing 0.0 industry. In fact it's CHEAPER to do indy at a POS in 0.0. Yet another 0.0 numbnut oversight.

From my calculations, given today's fuel block prices, one hour of POS running costs 575k for a large amarr POS, 500k for a caldari large, 632k for a gallente large and 580k for a minmatar large. If we assume we start a single maelstrom production in there, that's 1.5-1.9m cost just to build that maelstrom. In hisec it'd be 2k. Then you add the time the POS would sit there unused. Half that if we're doing it in a medium, half that again in a small (I can't be arsed to bust out mypos to see if it's even possible in a small).

Add the fact that using a POS in this manner either requires your own POS or some corp roles (with the ensuing theft certainty) and the fact that a POS costs anywhere from 65m (a small) to 285m (a large), or 1b+ if a faction, the added logistics of getting the minerals to the POS etc, none of which you have to do in hisec I might add ... and yes, it's so much cheaper, I honestly can't for the life of me figure out why nullsec inhabitants aren't just manning up and swallowing that pill when it's so much cheaper than hisec.

Touval Lysander wrote:
FW is essentially lowsec and Incursions also occur in 0.0. Yet another 0.0 numbnut oversight.

Nullsec incursions are looked upon as a nuisance rather than a huge isk faucet. Unlike the hisec incursions, it's generally not milked.

Touval Lysander wrote:
And where are the L5's, multi-spawn 1m+ BS anoms, 10/10 sigs etc. that are VASTLY superior in isk/hr? Another 0.0 numbnut oversight?

Ah yes, the 1m+ BS anoms which mean you're easy prey if you don't pay attention (which, btw, are getting a nerf through the new AI), 10/10s which may or may not even drop any valuable loot. Or I could sit and watch movies while running L4s where the payout is pretty much guaranteed to be stable and perfectly safe.

Gee, I wonder what I'll choose.

Touval Lysander wrote:
In fact - it was the one of the reasons I entertained the idea of removing timers on POS's and making production POS's one-shotable -

1) The 24hr wardec period is of no-consequence to a highsec POS owner because he can dismantle. Remove the 24hr period - war declarations are usually made JUST BEFORE the first shot is fired - make it so.

2) If you are off on TZ (asleep) - or war'decced - turn your POS into max defense so it HURTS the protaganists but production is stopped.

Awesome tactical and strategic benefits for ALL parties if same rule - ALL sectors.

But - hey. Bad idea apparently.

Ah yes, the "I really, really want T2 to cost a lot more" idea. Have fun with that, it'll never make its way into the game because it's absolutely terrible.

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat

Kitty Bear
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#438 - 2012-10-21 04:47:06 UTC
Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:
i already destroyed this argument back on page 6

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2063477#post2063477

If you read the link to CCP Diagoras' blog, you'll find that 86% of highsec ship losses are at the hands of NPCs, and 18 of the top 20 ships lost to NPC are frigates

If highsec is only dangerous to frigates, it should have a frigate-level reward to go with that risk, right?


I'm not really sure if you destroyed anything, especially an argument.

A ship blowing up is a ship blowing up, the source of that explosion is irrelevant. Risk has still been activated in the form of an exploding ship.

Quote:

Drake 505,263
Rifter 427,151
Hurricane 331,441
Kestrel 216,275
Raven 170,418
Caracal 167,771
Thorax 147,500
Harbinger 141,159
Thrasher 140,916
Manticore 136,193


Actual figures from your Devblog/Devpost
not very many frigates in that list (the 10 most likely ships to explode during the timeframe of that blogperiod)
SmilingVagrant
Doomheim
#439 - 2012-10-21 04:50:17 UTC
Deaths to PVE isn't inherent risk hiding in the system, it's generally negligence.

Even incursions have been gamed to the point where if you die: it's because you did something stupid.

Every time I've died to rats (Which is fairly few) it's been because I ran off to make a sandwich, or take an emergency poo, or was watching netflix and not my Eve screen.
Nicolo da'Vicenza
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#440 - 2012-10-21 04:50:51 UTC  |  Edited by: Nicolo da'Vicenza
look at the list below that one kitty
the list headed with 'And what do NPCs manage to destroy? Well, from the looks of things, the tutorials are killing quite a few players:"

and then lists a bunch of frigates

you're looking at the ships that have died in PVP (aka, nullsec)