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Tengu vs Legion

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Casirio
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#21 - 2012-10-18 16:27:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Casirio
While the Legion is somewhat sub-par to the other t3s. It does have decent damage projection the proteus just does not have, can have a very solid tank very easily, and is versatile as a neuting t3 if you need it. It does everything decently but like others said doesnt really excel in area (ie Loki webs, proteus point, tengu projection, ect.) Although after missile nerf Tengus wont have the crazy projection they do now, HAMs will be favored over HMLs, and people will probably start looking at the legion a little more favorably. I myself love the legion though, although Loki is my favorite t3.
SmilingVagrant
Doomheim
#22 - 2012-10-21 05:56:09 UTC
The issue with the legion is it does everything the Zealot does, and doesn't do it better enough to justify the cost. This is unlike most of the other T3's which when configured properly blow their hac counterparts out of the water.
Nihil Nobilitae
The Scarlet Storm
#23 - 2012-10-21 12:54:09 UTC
SmilingVagrant wrote:
The issue with the legion is it does everything the Zealot does, and doesn't do it better enough to justify the cost. This is unlike most of the other T3's which when configured properly blow their hac counterparts out of the water.


Thats more of an issue with HACs then the Legions though. Improve HACs a bit and T3s become a non issue. Sure some people might still opt for the 150k EHP Tengu over the 60-70k EHP Cerberus but if they both do the same DPS that's really a non issue. But as it stands right now, the Tengu does upwards 700 DPS in the same fit where a Cerberus does 550 because of the extra launcher. Thats whats really wrong.
Jude Lloyd
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#24 - 2012-10-22 17:14:07 UTC
Daniel Plain wrote:
Riot Girl wrote:
Because it sucks.


I'm back!
Eli Green
The Arrow Project
#25 - 2012-10-22 17:54:25 UTC
Casirio wrote:
While the Legion is somewhat sub-par to the other t3s.


Given that the legion is closest of the t3s to what CCP defines as a t3 "Jack of all trades master of none", you can expect the others to get nerfed a lot harder when the time comes

wumbo
Zyella Stormborn
Green Seekers
#26 - 2012-10-22 18:25:01 UTC
Eli Green wrote:
Casirio wrote:
While the Legion is somewhat sub-par to the other t3s.


Given that the legion is closest of the t3s to what CCP defines as a t3 "Jack of all trades master of none", you can expect the others to get nerfed a lot harder when the time comes



I don't recall CCP saying that about the Legion being the closest, but I freely admit, I do not catch all of their comments. Is there a link to this present that I can follow?

There is a special Hell for people like that, Right next to child molestors, and people that talk in the theater. ~Firefly
Goldensaver
Maraque Enterprises
Just let it happen
#27 - 2012-10-22 19:34:49 UTC  |  Edited by: Goldensaver
Zyella Stormborn wrote:
Eli Green wrote:
Casirio wrote:
While the Legion is somewhat sub-par to the other t3s.


Given that the legion is closest of the t3s to what CCP defines as a t3 "Jack of all trades master of none", you can expect the others to get nerfed a lot harder when the time comes



I don't recall CCP saying that about the Legion being the closest, but I freely admit, I do not catch all of their comments. Is there a link to this present that I can follow?

I don't remember exactly where it is, thought I do remember a dev blog or the sort saying that T3's are like the rabid dog drooling all over the place, and need to be put down.

Jeez, now you have me doing a complete dev blog search for this.

I'll edit my post with a link as soon as I find the bloody thing.

Edit: Found it:
CCP Ytterbium wrote:
This come once in a while. As some people mentioned before:


  • Tier 2 Battlecruisers already are extremely versatile and popular. Introducing yet improved hulls based on them without looking at tech1 battlecruisers first is in direct contradiction with the tiericide initiative.

  • We already have troubles having diverse, interesting hulls roles on this particular level. HACs, tech3 cruisers, battlecruisers and command ships currently are very close of each other on that field. Introducing a Navy Battlecruiser would aggravate the issue even further.

    • What needs to be done before having Navy Battlecruisers, in no particular order:

  • Have a look at tech1 cruisers and bring tiericide to their sorry little sad faces.
  • Fix tech1 battlecruisers as a whole. Most tier1 BCs are not good enough, some tier2 are just too good. You know we know you know which ones we are talking about Twisted
  • Make sure Command Ships have a viable role next to Battlecruisers (Nighthawk versus drake for example). Look at gang links. Eos. Eos. Eoseoseoseoseos.
  • HACs, they need love too.
  • Tech3 ships need to be put down, like a rabid dog drooling everywhere in the house, they are out of line. It doesn't necessarily means nerfing them to oblivion and beyond, but making sure that each subsystem configuration has a use and they don't overlap on other ships by making them different in role and purpose.


When that's done, and if the need for it is true, righteous in the divine gospel of the ship balancing light, then let's have Navy Battlecruisers, maybe. Pirate and new tech2 battlecruisers though are less of a problem if the roles aren't overlapping. Hmmmm spiky bikini Sansha battlecruiser with lazors pewpewnomnomnomnom. But errrr drifting out of topic here, we'd need to make sure current Sansha ships are tiericidead before that happens - we've heard horror stories about the Succubus and Phantasm being left to rot for all eternity in station hangars. That is not right.


https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1889852#post1889852

Edit 2: Oh, and no, he doesn't explicitly say that the Legion is the closest to where he wants them to be, but it's pretty obvious due to the fact that I'm pretty sure ALL Amarr T2 cruisers see use, that it's probably the closest. It is stronger then some of the T2's, but it doesn't crush them underfoot and take their roles away just by existing and being downright the most badass ship, and only choice if you want to be competitive.
He may change it more from here, but again, I'd have to say it's the closest to the *jack of all trades and master of none* that they want them to be.
Jerick Ludhowe
Internet Tuff Guys
#28 - 2012-10-22 20:10:35 UTC
Denuo Secus wrote:


As soon as armor logistic comes into play the Legion is top notch. Also it's quite good for gate camps since it can fit a scan res subsystem. Tengu doesn't have such a thing.


This is oh so very true. Imagine a zealot with same resistances, two times the ehp and another mid for amazing dual prop work. Zealots are good with armor logi, but legions are just so much better.
Jack Miton
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#29 - 2012-10-22 20:22:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Jack Miton
Casirio wrote:
It does have decent damage projection the proteus just does not have


This only applies for ranges over 22km since a proteus does a lot more DPS with null than a legion with scorch out to 22km with 2 mag stabs and a TE.
(It does more DPS at all ranges if the Legion isnt using scorch.)

Considering armour T3 gangs are not long range fleets at all and don't kite, ranges over 22km tend to be largely irrelevant.
Only thing you might want to do at that range is pop falcons, for which arty lokis are better due to the alpha. (they do more DPS than a legion out to 27km and over 36km, or at all ranges if you fit a tracking mod.)

There is no Bob.

Stuck In Here With Me:  http://sihwm.blogspot.com.au/

Down the Pipe:  http://feeds.feedburner.com/CloakyScout
Thomas Endersen
Doomheim
#30 - 2012-11-06 13:30:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Thomas Endersen
...
Thomas Endersen
Doomheim
#31 - 2012-11-06 13:37:39 UTC  |  Edited by: Thomas Endersen
Hi there,

i am wondering, what T3 could fit for me.

I would like to do highsec scanning/exploration sites, later daytripping into WH-space...
Maybe some lvl 3-4 mission running (but not most of the time)

In about two weeks, i be able to do some Radar/Mag-sites in an "Arbi-drone-cheap-all-in-one-site-boat".
And for the PvP aspects of the game, i´d like to stay frig-sized and stealth ;)


So.....

After missile-rebalance... the race goes between HAM-Legion oder HAM-Tengu (imho)

What will suit my demands (running sites, WH-daytripping) best?
Another point: travel-stealthy and secure as possible and a possibility to GTFO quick - just in case - would be awesome!

edit: Oh and some ratting/Radar/Mag/sites in low-sec against angels is on my menu, also!
Hathrul
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#32 - 2012-11-06 23:56:26 UTC
Jack Miton wrote:
Quote:
but at the same time the Legion is great for PvP


sorry, but it really isnt.

unless you need a dedicated T3 neuting ship or an armour fleet booster, then all other T3s are better than a legion in every way.


sorry but they really arent. legions are much more flexible in range-damage projection.

it will out track a proteus at any range above 5k
it will out damage any loki above 10k.

if you look at big t3 blob fights you will notice that legions pretty consistantly pull top damage because they can switch optimal easily all the time and track pretty well at that

i love legions
TomyLobo
U2EZ
#33 - 2012-11-07 02:07:52 UTC  |  Edited by: TomyLobo
Of all the turret based T3s, legions have the best damage projection. Legions also easily triple and in some cases quadruple the EHP of any zealot fit. Don't even let me start with active tanking.
Jack Miton
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#34 - 2012-11-07 04:23:38 UTC
Hathrul wrote:
it will out track a proteus at any range above 5k


did you actually mean to say track? cos, that's just a blatant lie.

assuming you meant damage, where do you legion pilots keep getting this crap from?
a proteus out DPSs a legion out to 18km odd with standard fits on both.
fit a TE instead of the 3rd stab on the prot and it out DPSs a legion out to 20km.
needless to say, at close range there is no comparison at all.

If youre a proteus pilot getting consistently out DPSed but legions then youre doing something HORRIBLY wrong.

as for lokis, DPS is similar but lokis actually have a useful support role and their resists are awesome.

There is no Bob.

Stuck In Here With Me:  http://sihwm.blogspot.com.au/

Down the Pipe:  http://feeds.feedburner.com/CloakyScout
boocb
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#35 - 2012-11-08 04:48:00 UTC
So as someone ready to get into a T3, is the tengu still best choice or should i be looking into somthing else. I have seen the nerf is coming to missiles. If not I would go legion
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