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How Do We, The Noobs Get In???

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Gorgeous Dre
State War Academy
Caldari State
#61 - 2012-10-14 17:38:19 UTC
Vera Algaert wrote:
Gorgeous Dre wrote:


Is there a streamlined, one stop shop site to go to to learn the game? Damage types, ships, glossary of terms, etc???

The Goonswarm Wiki - join some CFC alliance to get access.



Well why would I go to THEM for advice???

Aren't they TERRIBLE at this game??

pffft...

I'd rather join Test....at least they actually DO suck...
Gorgeous Dre
State War Academy
Caldari State
#62 - 2012-10-14 17:42:17 UTC
Idris Helion wrote:
EVE has the reputation of being a griefer's paradise, and a lot of this thread explains why that is the case.

CCP has actually promoted the "harsh, cruel" aspect of EVE -- to the extent that it has hurt their ability to retain many players. EVE's player-base has remained pretty static (and has even shrunk some after the Incarna fiasco), which means that a lot of the players (and their many alts) are now laden with millions of skillpoints and billions of ISK and are finding it ever-more difficult to find new horizons to explore in EVE.

There's no getting around it - EVE is incredibly hostile to new players.The real-time training system, the incredibly complex (and often needlessly-so) mechanics, the complicated aggro rules, the positively ancient missioning system, the incomplete tutorials...the list goes on and on. I've stayed in EVE for a long time because it becomes fun after many months, but if I had to start over I wouldn't even bother.

I'm not even sure at this point how CCP could even go about making EVE more "noob friendly" without banning at least half of the player population, and completely changing the game mechanics to such an extent that it would probably be less work to just create a new game. For better or worse, I think, EVE exists to serve the bittervets now -- new players are accepted, but rarely welcomed.


See but I respect the harshness....to be honest I like it. My main aspiration is to be a pirate.

It's not the difficulty of the learning curve I hate, its how hard it is to access the information, not to mention how to get around exp players who are active. THAT'S my issue. I keep trying to tell the trolls, it has nothing to do with me wanting EvE nerfed, but goddamn, can we get more thorough training missions? the help channel is cool though, admittedly.
Idris Helion
Doomheim
#63 - 2012-10-14 17:54:53 UTC
Gorgeous Dre wrote:
Idris Helion wrote:
EVE has the reputation of being a griefer's paradise, and a lot of this thread explains why that is the case.

CCP has actually promoted the "harsh, cruel" aspect of EVE -- to the extent that it has hurt their ability to retain many players. EVE's player-base has remained pretty static (and has even shrunk some after the Incarna fiasco), which means that a lot of the players (and their many alts) are now laden with millions of skillpoints and billions of ISK and are finding it ever-more difficult to find new horizons to explore in EVE.

There's no getting around it - EVE is incredibly hostile to new players.The real-time training system, the incredibly complex (and often needlessly-so) mechanics, the complicated aggro rules, the positively ancient missioning system, the incomplete tutorials...the list goes on and on. I've stayed in EVE for a long time because it becomes fun after many months, but if I had to start over I wouldn't even bother.

I'm not even sure at this point how CCP could even go about making EVE more "noob friendly" without banning at least half of the player population, and completely changing the game mechanics to such an extent that it would probably be less work to just create a new game. For better or worse, I think, EVE exists to serve the bittervets now -- new players are accepted, but rarely welcomed.


See but I respect the harshness....to be honest I like it. My main aspiration is to be a pirate.

It's not the difficulty of the learning curve I hate, its how hard it is to access the information, not to mention how to get around exp players who are active. THAT'S my issue. I keep trying to tell the trolls, it has nothing to do with me wanting EvE nerfed, but goddamn, can we get more thorough training missions? the help channel is cool though, admittedly.


I've been bitching about those tutorials for years. CCP did actually improve them somewhat in the last release, but they're still hopeless in terms of teaching you what you really need to know. I've been asking for a "fitting boot-camp" tutorial for a long time -- an in depth, guided tutorial on fitting your ship. It would explain the difference between T1/meta/T2 modules, how and when to use them, how skills affect them, and how to properly fit ships for certain roles (sniping vs brawling, for example). It would explain the differences between normal gear and faction gear.

I'd like a "EWAR/logi boot camp" tutorial that explains how the various kinds of EWAR/ECCM work, and how to use logi ships like the Guardian and the Basilisk.

I'd like a "standings boot camp" that explains the role of personal, corporate, and faction standings, and how they affect gameplay.

And finally, I've been complaining about the lack of EVE lore in the mission system for just about forever. Unless you read the books or the chronicles on the website, the whole backstory of the game boils down to fancy wallpaper and different ship styles.
Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
#64 - 2012-10-14 18:31:27 UTC
Opertone wrote:
I was a noob once too, with my standards set too high, I expected eve to be like my single player experience with SPACE games (X tension, X2, and others)

What made eve attractive to me - long learning curve, new changes that make learning new things even longer. Totally new stuff since I joined, Dreadnaughts, Carriers, lvl 5 missions, tech 3, planetary interaction, factional warfare, wormholes, new game mechanics, new races, new skills... this list always continues.

I still have no idea about capital ships and amarr technologies.

Difficulty is what makes eve desirable. It also acts as a barrier to casual (stupid, hating, childish) gamers.

If you reveal all eve secrets too fast, the game may become boring. Although you can get better guides, tips and tools, it is best to discover things by yourself.

EFT and EVE mon - killed all sacrament of buying better ship, exploring new tier - since I explored 50% of them in day one.



All true but for the highlighted part.

"He has mounted his hind-legs, and blown crass vapidities through the bowel of his neck."  - Ambrose Bierce on Oscar Wilde's Lecture in San Francisco 1882
Sarah Schneider
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#65 - 2012-10-14 18:48:02 UTC
Gorgeous Dre wrote:
Solstice Project wrote:
You won't last long in this game ... and that's probably not even a bad thing ...



See this is what I'm talking about. Right here.

"YEAH, I'M BIG BAD EVE PLAYER, AND I CRUSH U NOOBS. YOU WONT LAST LONG HERE. GRRRRRR"


You're probably some 120 pound ginger with freckles dude, f**k out of here with that elitist, tough guy crap dude.

All I'm asking for is information. If that makes me "weak" then so be it, but please can the tough guy **** man you're not fooling anyone. I bet if we go back, we'd find out you got helped when you started out. No idea why punk asses like you go around acting like you were flying titans after 5 days of play when you started.

I can understand your frustration, but Solstice has a point there, Eve probably has the steepest learning curve out of all MMOs currently available at the moment. Most new players realizes this, even with all CCP's effort to make improvements to the tutorial, one of the dev still stated that hey, if you don't like it and can't find a way to harden up and deal with the harsh world, perhaps maybe Eve is not the game for you and that's ok; and I'm not being sarcastic here, there are other games far far easier than Eve.

I've had the same problems as you and been in the same position as you, and I'm sure a lot of people can say the same. I had no help whatsoever when I first started this game, probably the main difference is that while you chose to give up applying to Eve Uni, I didn't; and guess what, applying to Eve University now is far easier than it was a year ago, all you need is the willingness to read and patience, two of the basic requirements of playing Eve, imho. If you think getting into Eve-Uni is hard, you'd be surprised on how it is when you're applying to a nullsec corp/alliance. No, I'm not implying that it's your goal, just giving you a rough image.

"I'd rather have other players get shot by other players than not interacting with others" -CCP Soundwave
Hauling Hal
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#66 - 2012-10-14 19:04:35 UTC  |  Edited by: Hauling Hal
Gorgeous Dre wrote:


Yeah I'm starting to think that too if a person is considered "not eve material" simply because he's asking experienced players for good places to get information.


The problem is that we don't know what you tried before you came to the forums. There is a specific type of player that asks for assistance before doing anything else that involves effort, and people here are wondering if you are another one.
Ismol Tyl
Doomheim
#67 - 2012-10-14 19:08:43 UTC  |  Edited by: Ismol Tyl
I just returned to Eve after some time away. When I first played in 2005 or so the first tutorial was imo the best. But very little info as far as excelling at PvP was given.
These new tutorials (if you really did them all you would know) give so much equipment and skill books away, not to mention the vastly increased initial attribute points, that I understand why some folks say Eve has been dumbed down alot as far as PvE goes. Everything you can do in PvE, short of market manipulation is shown to you in an almost childlike way in these tutorials.
Still there is no tutorial at excelling at PvP.
I think this is what you want. I think you want a list of the best fits for PvP and the fastest way to acquire them. The right skills to train for PvP and the fastest way to acquire them etc. There is nothing wrong with that but you should have asked this in your inital post. Instead you came across as a typical bored WoW player coming to this game wanting to know how to get to level 80 by this afternoon so you can kill Fippy Darkpaw in one swing Blink
Anyway you've been given some pretty good advice where to learn PvP. Or you can do what many other players have done, go out fight and die and learn on the way.
David Campbell
Gallente Militia War Supplies
#68 - 2012-10-14 19:25:18 UTC
Since your interest lie in pvp, try joining Open University of Celestial Hardship, from Art of War Alliance. The only requirement to get in is a non trial account.

They have classes on pvp and nullsec survival. They start from scratch so even a total noob isn't lost and there is always a bunch of people online that can help you out in between the classes. However, they have some rules on what a student is allowed to do or fly. It's not a bad thing as it prevent newer member to go broke but some people don't like to be told what to do when they play a video game, even if it's for their own good.

Last advice, hang in there. Being a noob in eve isn't the most fun, but when you start to understand the mechanics and find something you like to do, you'll be playing for hours on end.
Josef Djugashvilis
#69 - 2012-10-14 19:30:34 UTC
If they have not been mentioned already, Agony Unleashed are very good.

This is not a signature.
Josef Djugashvilis
#70 - 2012-10-14 19:33:45 UTC
Taranius De Consolville wrote:
Athena Themis wrote:
This is one of the reasons why eve is such a good game. It weeds out the instant-satisfaction players.


Another idiot post

unfrotunatley i wouldnt bother mate

find another game

im already looking for one

ive been re-started playing three months after a 5 year break n im still cojnfused as ever

bascially unless u have exp friends, eve is a **** game with no prospects

u either become an elitist prick pvpers or u quit

that is eve


Read around, pick something that appeals to you.

Read up on and train for said subject.

Enjoy.

This is not a signature.
Vera Algaert
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#71 - 2012-10-14 19:55:51 UTC
Gorgeous Dre wrote:
Vera Algaert wrote:
Gorgeous Dre wrote:


Is there a streamlined, one stop shop site to go to to learn the game? Damage types, ships, glossary of terms, etc???

The Goonswarm Wiki - join some CFC alliance to get access.



Well why would I go to THEM for advice???

Aren't they TERRIBLE at this game??

pffft...

I'd rather join Test....at least they actually DO suck...

TEST wiki is very spotty because most of them prefer using the goon wiki rather than their own.

.
Idris Helion
Doomheim
#72 - 2012-10-14 20:01:46 UTC
Ismol Tyl wrote:
I just returned to Eve after some time away. When I first played in 2005 or so the first tutorial was imo the best. But very little info as far as excelling at PvP was given.
These new tutorials (if you really did them all you would know) give so much equipment and skill books away, not to mention the vastly increased initial attribute points, that I understand why some folks say Eve has been dumbed down alot as far as PvE goes. Everything you can do in PvE, short of market manipulation is shown to you in an almost childlike way in these tutorials.
Still there is no tutorial at excelling at PvP.


Even now the tutorials aren't that great, even for PVE. Take the award of the Destroyer (and skill book) for example: no mention is made about what Destroyers are for, or why a player would want to use one instead of a Frigate, or what skills are useful to have for using a Destroyer effectively. (Racial skills, for example, like armor tanking over shield tanking, or projectile turrets over hybrid turrets.) Should you shield-tank or armor tank? Which is better? Which modules do you use? How do enemy strengths/weaknesses matter to your ship's fit? Should you use an active hardener or a passive resist module? How about the nine different kinds of projectile ammo -- which one to use for which enemy?

It goes on and on and on like that. The tutorials don't get into much of that at all. You find once the tutorials are complete that you've actually learned almost nothing about how the game is really played.
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#73 - 2012-10-14 20:02:22 UTC
Be aware, if you do try RvB you will absolutely want to read their information (linked when you show info on them) and the info at the top of the RvB community channel they have BEFORE you join.

You will be in a constant state of war and need to have your ducks in a row first.

Then look at the information they give on joining noob fleet to get your feet wet and actually get good information. There is very little hand holding, but you'll get more basic level info there.

Also, understand that you will die... often, but before long you will be killing far more frequently than being killed.

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#74 - 2012-10-14 20:05:35 UTC
Idris Helion wrote:
Ismol Tyl wrote:
I just returned to Eve after some time away. When I first played in 2005 or so the first tutorial was imo the best. But very little info as far as excelling at PvP was given.
These new tutorials (if you really did them all you would know) give so much equipment and skill books away, not to mention the vastly increased initial attribute points, that I understand why some folks say Eve has been dumbed down alot as far as PvE goes. Everything you can do in PvE, short of market manipulation is shown to you in an almost childlike way in these tutorials.
Still there is no tutorial at excelling at PvP.


Even now the tutorials aren't that great, even for PVE. Take the award of the Destroyer (and skill book) for example: no mention is made about what Destroyers are for, or why a player would want to use one instead of a Frigate, or what skills are useful to have for using a Destroyer effectively. (Racial skills, for example, like armor tanking over shield tanking, or projectile turrets over hybrid turrets.) Should you shield-tank or armor tank? Which is better? Which modules do you use? How do enemy strengths/weaknesses matter to your ship's fit? Should you use an active hardener or a passive resist module? How about the nine different kinds of projectile ammo -- which one to use for which enemy?

It goes on and on and on like that. The tutorials don't get into much of that at all. You find once the tutorials are complete that you've actually learned almost nothing about how the game is really played.



Actually yes. The tutorials are designed to cover basic game mechanics and nothing more. Even covering those fundamentals can get unwieldy very quickly.

The actual strategy involved and learning how to survive and thrive are up to the player to discover, either on his own or through social interaction.

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.
Cpt Roghie
Chemical Invasion Co.
#75 - 2012-10-14 20:17:28 UTC
Where's that guy who goes :GETOUT: all the time? It would be relevant.

This could be fun.
Nicolo da'Vicenza
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#76 - 2012-10-14 20:18:07 UTC
Generally what happens is you join a corp that'll have you and you get along and make friends or don't and find another corp that will. As you move along, you learn from experience what tactics work and which ones don't, what to do when stuck in certain situations and what not to do, and form lasting bonds with other players who have learned certain things that you haven't (and vice versa), helping each other out. Many corps have high SP requirements but that's to let total strangers in. Exceptions are often made for people that can be vouched in by a current corp member, but that means you have to have friends in EVE and show yourself as someone who is likeable and willing to contribute and learn.

EVE is fundamentally a social game, which might strike one as odd considering its rep as a game full of jackasses and douchebaggery, but it's that capacity of the game to screw over someone else for any reason that actually gives good behavior value and meaning.

Or you can come off as an anti-social, entitled **** like some of the people in this thread and then wonder why people don't want to let you in their groups.
Scien Inkunen
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#77 - 2012-10-14 20:19:23 UTC  |  Edited by: Scien Inkunen
There is'nt much to learn - go out there and shoot - or scan and shoot. The rest will come by itself.
Play your kind of game, not someone others.
Good luck.

Edit:
And like in RL, you DO have to read something to learn it. And there is a lot to read.

Read the "Fart file" and you will understand the meaning of life !
Darth Khasei
Wavestar Business Ventures Inc.
#78 - 2012-10-14 20:24:36 UTC
This game like my RL business is ALL about social interaction and making like minded friends.

If you are a socially active person that can make friends of industrialist, miners, mission runners, null sec alliance members AND goons then you will have a GREAT time in EVE.

If you are not a social person it may be a bit more difficult to do "some" things, but you can still crave out a successful niche as well.
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#79 - 2012-10-14 20:35:54 UTC
Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:
EVE is fundamentally a social game, which might strike one as odd considering its rep as a game full of jackasses and douchebaggery, but it's that capacity of the game to screw over someone else for any reason that actually gives good behavior value and meaning.

Or you can come off as an anti-social, entitled **** like some of the people in this thread and then wonder why people don't want to let you in their groups.

Hey, wait a moment, doesn't that mean that the forums can't count as a group?

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#80 - 2012-10-14 20:40:10 UTC
Ranger 1 wrote:
Be aware, if you do try RvB you will absolutely want to read their information (linked when you show info on them) and the info at the top of the RvB community channel they have BEFORE you join.

You will be in a constant state of war and need to have your ducks in a row first.

Then look at the information they give on joining noob fleet to get your feet wet and actually get good information. There is very little hand holding, but you'll get more basic level info there.

Also, understand that you will die... often, but before long you will be killing far more frequently than being killed.



Very very relevant information for potential RvB members, they are at war, you will die, you will lose pods and implants to 3rd party wardecs. Definitely read up on the info they give you and do as they suggest with the overview

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack